bullets from SNS Casting -or- STOP Hoarding

[Kevin]

It's finally cool enough here in Dallas, I can do some reloading in the garage. Usually I don't get out there between May and September. Just load up a bunch in May and it lasts through the summer.

Anyway, I was doing some reloading today and checked my bullet supply. It's getting a bit low, and I usually order from either SNS Casting or Missouri Bullet Company. Both seem to make really nice bullets. And their prices are very similar. BUT! Missouri Bullet Co, has a 10 to 12 week backlog!

SNS says they are trying to get orders out in 24 hours. Guess which company I ordered from?

What is going on????
-I know what is going on, but, I guess my real question is, why do gun owners seem to be the worst hoarders? Do they never learn to just keep a normal supply on hand so this doesn't happen every 4 years?

I realize there are many, many new gun owners this year, but those aren't the people buying reloading supplies.

 

[kmoore]

It's not just reloading, look for factory ammo supplies..
Cast up your own, I did for years. After having coffee cans full of each bullet I might use and most fishing wt.s I sold all casting equipment. I will not ever pay for a lead bullet and be shooting them until I cannot shoot any longer.

 

[mikld]

Fear! "OMG, I won't be able to get my share". Not bragging, just sharing; I grew up in Earthquake country, So. CA, and the son of a man that lived through the Great Depression. From these I learned to be (stay) prepared. I could probably go on reloading, at about my same level, for another year or stretch it out to two quite easily with what I have on hand now...

 

[Paul B]

I've been casting bullets since 1954. I was born before the start of WW2 and knew an old gentleman who did cast bullet. I probably was a royal PITA for that old guy but he was patient and taught me the ropes. He told me of the hardships of getting ammo during WW2. You think stuff is scarce now, try for all practical purposes noting was available. One my first deer hunt , one of the groups was using a .270 with brass made from salvaged 30-06 cases. The hunt started on Labor Day weekend 1949 to be exact. During the war about the only ammo available and in limited quantities was .22 LR and 30-30 Winchester. The .22s went to farmers to protect crops from varmints and the 30-30 to ranchers to remove predators. Those unable to be in the war and were shooters either cast bullets or knew someone who did. Those are the plain and simple facts.
The fact is, those who could cast their own bullets and had a supply of components could shoot when others could not. Those who cast bullets during that period of time could also go hunting if conditions would allow. Long range shooting was mostly out of the question if not totally out.
A good 30-30 is an excellent cast bullet gun as is the 30-06. It's not too hard to duplicate factory or darn close in the 30-30 and I know I can duplicate the 220 gr. 30-40 Krag in my 30-06.
With all that said, the ability and knowledge to properly cast bullets, a supply of powder and primers and you have true independence during these times of shortages which seem to be occurring closer together all the time. The millennium, Clinton's AWB, the Obama years, climate change/global warming and now this silly Coronacrap pandemic. I wonder what the next scare will be. Probably the sky is falling or some other made up stupidity. The Boy Scouts had the right idea, "Be prepared."
Paul B.

 

[gunzo]

Good post Paul, where's the like button here?

Casting, just like reloading is another part of self reliance.
Even if you don't cast, careful watch on ones component inventory, & the political climate can have a man out shooting while others are scrounging for supplies, & paying higher prices.

I will admit though. This year has hit us gun guys from 3 sides at least. And even the best planners have had to stay on their toes.

 

[Kevin]

These are good replies. My wife's grandparents were the same way. They did not throw anything away, and repaired and saved spare parts for everything. They had a small farm outside of town where they lived.

My order of bullets was shipped, I should get them either Saturday or Monday! Better than waiting 10 weeks. But now I'm set. Well, I could use some more large pistol primers, but have a "comfortable" supply of most everything.

Jeff Quinn from Gunblast said in one of his videos, but .22 ammo when you see it, because eventually you will want some during times like these. (Although the way he said it was more colorful.) But, he was right, and I did follow his advice.

 

[gunzo]

As a shooter, & maybe an armchair prepper, the almost instantaneous primer shortage of '94 taught me a lesson or 3.

I tell friends & new shooters or reloaders that if you plan to shoot or load this week, you can't look for shells or components this week. The same applies for next year as well as this week. Folks have to maintain, monitor & adjust their own inventories.

22's? I was called a name or 3 over my supply in January of 2009, but at the time I was not a hoarder. I just had several months supply. Who knew that shortage would last that long, & it was only during the shortage that I had to hoard by cutting back on my shooting by a large number just be able to have my own personal supply.
I never sold a round, but they were mine, had I decided to so.

 

[Kevin]

I placed my order Monday afternoon and it just came today! I ordered bullets for 327, 38 Wadcutters, then 158 grain 357's and 250 grain 45's.

One heavy box.

 

[any ruger]

Placed order at Missouri 5 weeks ago nothing. At that time there was a 4 to 6 week shipping wait. They got the money though. I wonder how many companies would forgive my late payments when I blame them on the virus?

 

[contender]

All industries have been affected by this beer virus crap. Real or fake, politics NOT considered,, it has caused many factories & all to cut back, people out of work, material shortages, etc. As such,, when you throw in the hard left anti-gunners who are fighting for the control of the government,, MANY people are scared, and as such, becoming new gun owners.
New gun owners,, want ammo.
Ammo makers are struggling to keep up with demands,, when materials & components are in short supply. Especially any materials that are/were coming from China. Orders exceed supplies, and as such, we are in another shortage.
Just like toilet paper,, people purchased necessities in extra quantities when they found it,, to try & ride out the (hopefully short lived) lack of supply.
In reloading,, as pointed out,, component availability is at the bottom of the list for the market. Ammo makers need the components,, AND have contracts with the makers of primers, powder, bullets & brass. Reloaders are below them in the line for components.
And when a popular item is desired by consumers from a specific company,, such as Federal small pistol primers for competition shooters,, and Federal needs them to fill orders for their ammo,, guess who is last to get supplies.

Missouri Bullets most likely are suffering from high demand, and low supply of materials necessary to make bullets,, and that's why they are having such a backlog. If you throw in the possibility of employees out due to the beer virus,, or even a shutdown of a plant somewhere in their chain,, then is trickles down to us.

SNS most likely has a better supply of materials,, and also hasn't been affected as hard as Missouri Bullets.

I also cast my own,, and have been watching how home casters have been chasing the older clip on wheel weights for the material to make bullets for several years. It's only going to get harder to find them, as regulations have changed & the lead ones have been replaced with zinc, steel & other crap.

Hoarding,, is buying up stuff & not using it.
Buying stuff to USE & keep a supply on hand to allow you a normal life,, even through shortages is not hoarding. As a lifelong Boy Scout,, our motto; "Be Prepared" has been a daily thought for me. Throw in the fact my Dad lived through the Great Depression, and taught us to be frugal & make sure we always had necessities,, and I have always tried to keep my self well stocked in the things I need & use.

Competition shooters have been cutting back on the matches they attend due to the fact they can't find the reloading supplies they normally use. And some of them use a LOT of components. Serious competition action shooters can easily shoot 20,000 rounds a year. I've never been super serious,, and I know of a few years,, I shot well over 10,000 rounds myself. And that was just one caliber.

It's two different things, hoarding or being prepared.

 

[Kevin]

Missouri Bullet Company does make good bullets. I've used them in the past. I do have to say, I don't really care much for their attitude on the website. It comes across as being harsh and abrasive, NOT funny, as I think they intended. I've ordered from SNS longer than MO Bullets.

Funny thing. I was at a gun store this morning. They had lots of .22 ammo. Right beside it was a sign, "Purchase of rimfire ammunition is only allowed with purchase of a rimfire gun." You can't blame them. If they didn't save their .22 ammo, who would buy a gun if they didn't sell the ammunition?

And they had lots of guns in the case too. They tend to always have a nice selection.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I know what is going on, but, I guess my real question is, why do gun owners seem to be the worst hoarders? Do they never learn to just keep a normal supply on hand so this doesn't happen every 4 years?

Hi,

Just something to mull over, Kevin, which for lack of a better name I'll call the Costco model:

How many reloading components can you buy today that "just fill the need" until we need more? Think of how we used to buy ammo and components. I started reloading when Igot my first shot shell machine for Christmas, 1965. I'd go to the sporting goods store (you know, the LGS that's all but disappeared) for my components. I'd buy 100 primers (the only guys I knew who bought 'em by the 1000 were competition shooters, who'd often share a box of 1000. If they bought a case of 5000, there was definitely a group buy going on!). I bought powder by the half pound, once in a while by the pound: Hercules (now Alliant) shipped 15 lb kegs, and the fellow would go in the back room, grab a brown paper bag and write "Red Dot" or whatever on the bag, then measure out the amount I wanted and staple the bag shut. Shot came in 5 lb and 25 lb bags. Again, most of us only needed 5 lbs for quite a while.

Since we couldn't reload .22s, we'd get them at the LGS, or Sears, Western Auto, Montgomery Wards or a zillion other places. Even gas stations and liquor stores sometimes carried .22 ammo. We'd buy a box. Of 50. If the shelf was empty, a clerk would pull a couple of boxes out of a brick. I thought bricks were just for shipping. The idea of buying 500 .22s at one time was incomprehensible to my limited financial resources driven mind!

And so forth...

Today, just look at the packaging and you see where some of the problem comes in. You need 50 rounds of .22s for an afternoon's worth of tin can shooting? (A single shot bolt action rifle slows down the rate of fire pretty quickly.) You're probably gonna have to buy a "bulk box" which holds even more than the traditional brick. The bean counters are involved at least to some extent. The fact most of us probably shoot more than our parents or grandparents did at any given time in their lives also plays into the demand. And, of course, "panic buying" can always be counted on to play its part.

All in all, the Boy Scouts describe it in their motto: "Be Prepared." Sadly, in today's society, for me to "be prepared" in what I think is an adequate manner probably cuts into the supply for somebody standing behind me in the line. And that leads to another question: if I need 50 of something, but it's only packaged in 500 quantity boxes, am I hoarding by buying that "way more than I need right now" box or am I simply being prepared?

Rick C

 

[onehandgunner]

I would guess that one of the reasons MBC was on a lengthy shipping time frame ( it took 10 weeks to get my last order ) was that Brad Alpert, the owner, died of cancer on Thursday. I have been a customer of theirs for many years and I want to wish his family well and may God bless them. REST IN PEACE BRAD. Thank you for a great product and service. Jerry D.

 

[sixshot]

Back when I was shooting USPSA competition I remember one Grand Master who was into a hard practice session that fired 30,000 rounds in 6 weeks! I'm pretty sure one of his sponsors furnished the ammo but you can see some people shoot a boat load of ammo in competition.
My busiest year was 54,000 rounds & the following year I shot 36,000 but I cast every bullet & loaded every round on my 2 Dillion presses. It takes a lot of powder & primers if you shoot competition. You have to stay way ahead on components.

Dick

 

[Ale-8(1)]

The last primary lead smelter in the USA was closed in 2013. Domestic sources of lead now consist of recycling operations. This likely has an impact on bullet production/availability.

 

[Kevin]

I would guess that one of the reasons MBC was on a lengthy shipping time frame ( it took 10 weeks to get my last order ) was that Brad Alpert, the owner, died of cancer on Thursday. I have been a customer of theirs for many years and I want to wish his family well and may God bless them. REST IN PEACE BRAD. Thank you for a great product and service. Jerry D.

I didn't realize this. Sad to hear.

 

[chuck]

Placed order at Missouri 5 weeks ago nothing. At that time there was a 4 to 6 week shipping wait. They got the money though. I wonder how many companies would forgive my late payments when I blame them on the virus?

I did the same, they got their money, I still aint got my slugs. wont buy from then ever again.

 

[onehandgunner]

I had emailed MBC today asking about future casting since they are out of my bullet.. JoAnn responded and said that when they catch up on all the orders they will resume their line of bullets. I can wait. If you go to SnS casting web site you will see a shut down notice, they hope to resume in 2 weeks or so. Most of the casting companies are going through the same agony. I can and will wait for MBC to gear up again. I am brand loyal to MBC, they have a great product at fair prices.

 

[oscar]

I live about 40 miles from S&S and the virus is running wild.