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SCORE!!!!!!!!

It's not illegal for an FFL to sell loose bullets like that. Just because they are not from a "commercial" maker,, doesn't make them illegal.
Selling remanufactured ammo is not illegal but the liability is HUGE. During the Obama/Biden ammo shortages alot of remanufactured ammo was sold. Some of the amateurs got an FFL and became a licensed business in order to get a price break on supplies. Whether they are "bonded" is whole different matter. More than one firearm has been destroyed by 'gun show" ammo.
 
Yes, similar to moonshine. Make it all you want, sell it without paying for the license and you're in trouble. The not-for-profit argument is thin because the lady selling to the store was for profit 100% and illegal. But then the store owner didn't give them away so he's in the same boat she is. Both were for profit.

This analogy is 100% incorrect. Home distillation of spirits for personal consumption, while rarely prosecuted, is completely illegal. Home distillation licenses for fuel usage are obtainable, licenses to produce for consumption require some inane tracking and storage requirements (thinking bonded warehouse or some such).

The store owner didn't MANUFACTURE the cast bullets in the course of business, so he's in the clear. A one-time sale of personal assets is not a regular business activity either.

Y'all are welcome to believe what you want. ATF used to have guidance on their website (think it may have gone away with the rule rewriting the past couple years) about selling personally made firearms, that made it relatively clear that an occasional sale of an item that was not specifically manufactured with the intent to sell was not a licensed activity.
 
No.

It is not illegal to make your own whiskey, beer, or wine. It is illegal to do so and sell it without a license. A license is nothing more than a tax which is what the gubmint wants and needs. They care zero about safety.

When did fuel become and issue? Because the General Lee ran on moonshine on the Dukes of Hazzard TV show?

It matters not the store owner did not manufacture the bullets himself. What matters is he sold ammunition components that were made by a non-licensed person. If your poor attempt at logic is true, one could cast their own bullets, "sell" them to a friend, then the friend could legally sell them and pay the maker back with no issue. Not the case at all.

And the ATF does in fact have language on their website to corroborate what has been posted already herein. I'm with the other guy. Topic needs to go bye-bye.
 
No.

It is not illegal to make your own whiskey, beer, or wine. It is illegal to do so and sell it without a license. A license is nothing more than a tax which is what the gubmint wants and needs. They care zero about safety.
(the following is for educational purposes only and is not intended to help advise anyone of how to commit a crime)
It is a federal crime to make whisky, but not beer or wine so long as the person does not possess over a certain amount of home made beer or wine at any one point in time.

As for being legal in states, most it is a felony to make whiskey. Missouri it is completely state legal to make and possess 100 gallons per adult up to 2 adults per household, making it legal for a husband and wife to possess up to 200 gallons at any given point and time. But being it is still a federal crime if I were to have any I sure would not brag about it on the internet. There are a few other states that are kind of iffy and still best to keep any such activity under the radar as well. It is however in the state of Missouri a crime to transport sad stash from the place it was made to another property, so don't get caught taking to a friends house for any reason either.

And unless one is openly making and or even selling it under the radar they most likely will never get into any trouble. Key takeaway here is to stay under the radar!
 
It matters not the store owner did not manufacture the bullets himself. What matters is he sold ammunition components that were made by a non-licensed person.
I posted the relevant statute. Supply a source that supports your argument if you have such.

Don't bother accusing me of coming up with the logic in the statute. I didn't have anything to do with crafting it. Were it up to me, there wouldn't be restrictions on manufacturing projectiles.
 
No statute quoted, only referenced. The reference you typed says that it's illegal to make ammo or components thereof without a license. So you're saying it's not illegal to sell the things you aren't allowed to produce. Okay.
 
I posted the relevant statute. Supply a source that supports your argument if you have such.

Don't bother accusing me of coming up with the logic in the statute. I didn't have anything to do with crafting it. Were it up to me, there wouldn't be restrictions on manufacturing projectiles.
I posted a link above where a lawyer explains it well. They give the statutes too. But I'm definitely with you on if it were up to me all kinds of stuff would become legal.
 
Yes, similar to moonshine. Make it all you want, sell it without paying for the license and you're in trouble. The not-for-profit argument is thin because the lady selling to the store was for profit 100% and illegal. But then the store owner didn't give them away so he's in the same boat she is. Both were for profit.
Distilling liquor is Federally illegal, unless you follow all the rules, pay all the fees, etc.(45 second Interweb search)
 
When you sit down and think about it, just how many laws and regulations does the government that they can use against you? Then add the state and city/town/village laws and regulations there must be at least several million ways you can be charged with some kind of crime. Two that I remember from when I lived in California are a state law that states one must have a fire extinguisher in their vehicle. How many are in compliance? AFAIK, there is still on the books in San Francisco an ordinance that says one cannot drive their motor vehicle in Golden gate Park is the manufacturer's name is displayed on said vehicle in public view. Think abut that the next time you drive your Ford through the park on a nice warm afternoon.

In the case on the lady taking some cast bullets to a shop to be sold just may be illegal under the letter of the ATF gestapo regulations. However, in this case, the bullets were part of her DECEASED husband's estate, much of which had already be liquidated or attended to. If the bullets were a common design like Lyman #358495, commonly used .38 caliber wadcutter that most commercial cast bullet makers most likely make, who's to say her late husband made them? The woman didn't know what to do with them so she took them to an FFL to be properly disposed of. The FFL took them and did whatever she asked. Thix leaves these questions. Did she know her late husband cast those bullets and did she tell the FFL they were his home made bullets. It all may not be all that cut and dried.

Currently under the letter of the law, if I paid $400 for a Colt single acton new in the box with all papers that if I sold today for and easy $1,500 plus, I'd be in violation of the ATF regulations. I made a profit. Or did I? Thanks to inflation they may be little or no actual true profit with the only real increase would be the dollar amount. It could be the equal of the original $400 but the ATF Gestapo would see it as a $ 1,100 profit, inflation be damned.
Paul B.
 
When you sit down and think about it, just how many laws and regulations does the government that they can use against you? Then add the state and city/town/village laws and regulations there must be at least several million ways you can be charged with some kind of crime. Two that I remember from when I lived in California are a state law that states one must have a fire extinguisher in their vehicle. How many are in compliance? AFAIK, there is still on the books in San Francisco an ordinance that says one cannot drive their motor vehicle in Golden gate Park is the manufacturer's name is displayed on said vehicle in public view. Think abut that the next time you drive your Ford through the park on a nice warm afternoon.

In the case on the lady taking some cast bullets to a shop to be sold just may be illegal under the letter of the ATF gestapo regulations. However, in this case, the bullets were part of her DECEASED husband's estate, much of which had already be liquidated or attended to. If the bullets were a common design like Lyman #358495, commonly used .38 caliber wadcutter that most commercial cast bullet makers most likely make, who's to say her late husband made them? The woman didn't know what to do with them so she took them to an FFL to be properly disposed of. The FFL took them and did whatever she asked. Thix leaves these questions. Did she know her late husband cast those bullets and did she tell the FFL they were his home made bullets. It all may not be all that cut and dried.

Currently under the letter of the law, if I paid $400 for a Colt single acton new in the box with all papers that if I sold today for and easy $1,500 plus, I'd be in violation of the ATF regulations. I made a profit. Or did I? Thanks to inflation they may be little or no actual true profit with the only real increase would be the dollar amount. It could be the equal of the original $400 but the ATF Gestapo would see it as a $ 1,100 profit, inflation be damned.
Paul B.
I just realized that the original post did not say that the fellow had cast them himself but just that they appeared to be cast bullets. They could actually been commercial cast bullets.
 
If all this is true,, then I apologize for getting it wrong.

However,,, I'll be at SHOT in a few weeks, and I'll visit with the ATF while there & see if I can written confirmation of all this.
Well? What did you learn?"


I didn't post any follow-up answer,, because I didn't get to the ATF booth at SHOT. I got too busy elsewhere. And seeing all these posts here,, it's a moot point.

The letter of the law,, as noted in a post above,, is that we are all very likely to be breaking laws daily. It's up to the enforcing agency to catch us,, and decide if they THINK we are breaking a law. If they think so,, then they can decide if it's worth the efforts to proceed with a form of prosecution. Just like speeding. Often,, a few miles over the limit is illegal,, and the police officer who sees it,, or catches you at it,, can decide to pull you & write a ticket,, or say to themselves,, "it's only a few miles over the limit, & not worth the effort to pursue legal charges.

In this case,, lead cast bullets may or may not have been commercially manufactured. The lady was not "in business" acting as a dealer. The gun shop,, bought the bullets,, and yes,, they plan to sell them at a profit,, but they have a business license,, Unless an ATF agent went through ALL the FFL's invoices,, to determine where he got them,, it's highly unlikely they would uncover where the FFL bought them.

Then at the same time,, the ATF agent even if they found evidence of the purchase,, they most likely would not file any charges,, UNLESS they wanted to pad the booking charges with a lot, to allow a district attorney to "negotiate" a reduction in crimes in an effort to gain a conviction.

In other words,, it's VERY unlikely anybody would be charged in relation to the Op's posting. In fact,, I doubt that there has ever been a stand alone charge for such an activity.
 
Agree. I had that mold for the short time I was loading .45 Colt. Mine dropped at nearly 260 grains too. If they were mine I would powder coat them then run them through the appropriate sizer.

Odd that an FFL would consign those as I thought it was illegal to sell non-commercially made bullets. Wouldn't scare me to shoot them though.
Bullets are projectiles, they like fish weights.
Loaded cartridges may fall into another category due to the lack of excise tax being levied. During the O'Biden reigns of terror there was a shortage of ammunition, gun stores were getting it from anywhere they could. I'm sure some came from unlicensed manufacturers. In our area, everywhere there was a wide flat spot beside a secondary road there was a popup camper selling ammunition. Alot of it was bought at Wal-Mart when a shipment came in but I am sure center fire cartridges were made in Joe Blows basement.

If you look at the end flap of commercial ammunition, it doesn't say 50 bullets, it says 50 cartridges.
 
SCORE!!!!!!!!

It's not illegal for an FFL to sell loose bullets like that. Just because they are not from a "commercial" maker,, doesn't make them illegal.
You don't have to have an FFL to sell ammunition, it is a commodity that can be sold without a license. Manufacturing ammunition for resale is another. matter. I think it requires an 05 license.
 
"I know you have to be licensed to sell live ammunition"

Correct.

But just the lead bullets,,, NO LICENSE REQUIRED!

Delve into the ATF rules & regulations & find a copy of the law that says you have to have a license to sell just bullets. If you do find one,, I'll be surprised & humbly apologize!

Now,, MAYBE a few specific STATE regulations MIGHT have such a law. But not Federal.
Right off the ATF.gov web page:
www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/license-required-engage-business-selling-small-arms-ammunition
No. A license is not required for a dealer in ammunition only. However a license is required to manufacture or import ammunition. [18 U.S.C. 922 ...
 
Bullets are projectiles, they like fish weights.
Loaded cartridges may fall into another category due to the lack of excise tax being levied. During the O'Biden reigns of terror there was a shortage of ammunition, gun stores were getting it from anywhere they could. I'm sure some came from unlicensed manufacturers. In our area, everywhere there was a wide flat spot beside a secondary road there was a popup camper selling ammunition. Alot of it was bought at Wal-Mart when a shipment came in but I am sure center fire cartridges were made in Joe Blows basement.

If you look at the end flap of commercial ammunition, it doesn't say 50 bullets, it says 50 cartridges.
Might want to learn to multi-quote to keep from taking up an entire page. It is illegal to sell non-commercially made bullets. It is therefore illegal to sell ammunition assembled using same. It is not illegal for an individual to sell commercially made bullets or commercially assembled ammunition. Hope this makes sense now. Sorry I did not explain all the steps. I thought it was pretty simple. Also tough to imagine gun stores selling ammo they knew wasn't commercially assembled.

In fact,, I doubt that there has ever been a stand alone charge for such an activity.
I can nearly guarantee people have been prosecuted for selling home made bullets. My guess is it wasn't a stand alone charge but one of many brought due to a larger incident.
 
Might want to learn to multi-quote to keep from taking up an entire page. It is illegal to sell non-commercially made bullets. It is therefore illegal to sell ammunition assembled using same. It is not illegal for an individual to sell commercially made bullets or commercially assembled ammunition. Hope this makes sense now. Sorry I did not explain all the steps. I thought it was pretty simple. Also tough to imagine gun stores selling ammo they knew wasn't commercially assembled.


I can nearly guarantee people have been prosecuted for selling home made bullets. My guess is it wasn't a stand alone charge but one of many brought due to a larger incident.
I posted last night a quote from the ATF website concerning the selling of ammunition. The manufacture of the projectiles was not beached. The manufacture of ammunition was mentioned, it expressed that the manufacture of ammunition (rifle, pistol and shotgun cartridges) requires a Federal License. Many of the uninitiated, unwashed, laymen refer to ammunition as "bullets" when they really mean cartridges/ammunition. When I was selling a preponderance of reloading supplies I sold approximately 1 1/2-2 tons of bullets i.e. projectiles per year. On the shipping manifests the projectiles were listed as "bullet heads" I think this term was because it was more descriptive and understandable for the unwashed laymen. BTW you don't need a Federal License to buy Smokeless Powder or Primers either.

From the many comments by "those in the know" concrete answers concerning the sale and manufacture of ammunition can be answered at the government web site www.atf.gov. Just go to the search block and type in a question.

Another occurrence of a gun store smart ass happened when I was teaching NC Concealed Handgun Course (23 years) an older lady came to the course. She had been by Rex's Guns on Upward Rd. to buy ammunition for the class. She had told the individual behind the counter she wanted a box of 9mm bullets. To get over on her (retired school teacher) he sold her a box of 100 Hornady 115 grain hollow point bullets (projectiles). Now did he do this out of spite, or his stupidity, or maybe he should have been astute enough, being a gun store employee/owner, to ask for clarification because of the confusion of the unwashed, uninitiated. It wasn't a major foul up, I also sold ammunition (no FFL required) so I swapped two boxes of Remington 115 gr FMJ for her box of Hornady hollow points. I think she came out ahead.

Ammunition and gun sales at Flea Markets is uncontrolled, the ATF rarely hit the local one, when they do the agents bring a school bus to haul off the malefactors. Being an FFL one of the requirements is that the license must be "clearly displayed". I once when through the local FM, a guy had a booth, the walls were covered with Hi-Points, I looked and looked at his counter and walls for the required "displayed" license. I didn't even find a ghost of a displayed 8x10 anything.
 

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