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Joe Chartreuse

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 1, 2022
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161
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New Jersey
Just inherited a Tower flintlock pistol circa. 1840s. Made by Tower of London Armories at a Japanese factory. A type used inb the Crimean war among others.

5/8" bore, single shot, no serial number ( Pre-1898, not paperwork needed)., 9" barrel, about 16"n overall, with ramrod and original leather ammo case, "Tower" on plate behind hammer, GB with crown ( British Royal poofy, not spiked) trademark (Great Britain). In working condition. Included powder loader is current, not original. Can anyone give me some sort of value range, or point me in the right direction?

 

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RSIno1

Hunter
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Sep 17, 2013
Messages
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Southern California
Non cartridge black powder = no paperwork needed send it through the mail even to Commiefornia (even Ruger Old Army). Of course NJ may be more restrictive.
Flintlocks don't like BP substitutes - too hard to ignite. Use 2F in the barrel and 4F in the pan.
5/8 bore would be .62 caliber. You can buy readymade balls or molds at a lot of the primitive outfitter places. You'll need to do a little experimenting with the patches. They come in different thicknesses so the ball will fit the barrel snug enough to assure the powder goes off reliably. Look at the bright side the primer shortage is over for you. Here's a few places that offer stuff you'll need. I've had good luck with Track of the Wolf.
 

Joe Chartreuse

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 1, 2022
Messages
161
Location
New Jersey
Non cartridge black powder = no paperwork needed send it through the mail even to Commiefornia (even Ruger Old Army). Of course NJ may be more restrictive.
Flintlocks don't like BP substitutes - too hard to ignite. Use 2F in the barrel and 4F in the pan.
5/8 bore would be .62 caliber. You can buy readymade balls or molds at a lot of the primitive outfitter places. You'll need to do a little experimenting with the patches. They come in different thicknesses so the ball will fit the barrel snug enough to assure the powder goes off reliably. Look at the bright side the primer shortage is over for you. Here's a few places that offer stuff you'll need. I've had good luck with Track of the Wolf.
Thank you for that information. Very helpful.
 

XP100

Blackhawk
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
503
Location
Florida
Not legal to ship to Non FFL in NJ. There may be other ststes where not legal. In NY you can have a BP pistol or revolver without having a Pistol permit but can't have everything to load and shiit it, if you do you need a carry permit and have it listed in it.
 

Joe Chartreuse

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 1, 2022
Messages
161
Location
New Jersey
Not legal to ship to Non FFL in NJ. There may be other ststes where not legal. In NY you can have a BP pistol or revolver without having a Pistol permit but can't have everything to load and shiit it, if you do you need a carry permit and have it listed in it.
Please note that this item was manufactured in the 1840s. ANY longarm or handgun made before 1898 is exempt from federal licensing. While some states may or may not require some sort of paperwork for ownership, NJ does not, and I have heard of none that do. This is why non-gun dealers such as pawn shops and antique stores can sell them. As for shipping it somewhere- the carrier and states may have their own rules.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Greenville, SC: USA
I was going to track down and give you the web site of the place I bought a couple pounds of real black powder from a few years back but I think you best check the laws in N.J. first. I'd really like to have one of these just for the heck of it... I got a chuckle when I ordered the black powder, it seems the maximum they could ship me at one time was 50lbs. Seems the fearful folks in the government kind of missed on this one......
 

Klondike Mike

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Massa2shitz
It's a modern Japanese made replica of a Tower Pistol. It's 62 caliber or twenty gauge. You can load it with ball or shot. Use real black powder no substitutes. You can use Ffg for the barrel and Ffffg for the pan or Fffg for both. Don't use musket charges load it very light. Its monetary value isn't very high but they are a blast to shoot.
 

RSIno1

Hunter
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Southern California
Please note that this item was manufactured in the 1840s. ANY longarm or handgun made before 1898 is exempt from federal licensing. While some states may or may not require some sort of paperwork for ownership, NJ does not, and I have heard of none that do. This is why non-gun dealers such as pawn shops and antique stores can sell them. As for shipping it somewhere- the carrier and states may have their own rules.
You have a Japanese replica of an 1840s English design. Japan was a closed isolated country until 1853. I'd say probably built 1960-1990.
While the 1898 exemption you cite is accurate the ATF does not consider muzzle loaded black powder guns to be firearms which is why yours is exempt from federal paperwork.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 defines an antique firearm in Section 921(16) as any firearm manufactured before 1898, including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar ignition system. Replicas of such firearms are also considered antiques as long as the replica is not "designed or redesigned to use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition."
 

Joe Chartreuse

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Joined
May 1, 2022
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161
Location
New Jersey
I was going to track down and give you the web site of the place I bought a couple pounds of real black powder from a few years back but I think you best check the laws in N.J. first. I'd really like to have one of these just for the heck of it... I got a chuckle when I ordered the black powder, it seems the maximum they could ship me at one time was 50lbs. Seems the fearful folks in the government kind of missed on this one......
If not shippable, it's available at every brick and mortar. The problem isnt really state laws anymore. The carriers are acting independently, with UPS starting the process. Can't ship without a carrier. Your 50 lb guy is probably long past it
 

Uncle Howie

Buckeye
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May 28, 2004
Messages
1,167
Location
MN
If not shippable, it's available at every brick and mortar. The problem isnt really state laws anymore. The carriers are acting independently, with UPS starting the process. Can't ship without a carrier. Your 50 lb guy is probably long past it

I’ve found just the opposite, here in MN. Almost no one around here carries real black powder, anymore.

Jon at Crater Fireworks in IL can get you hooked up, though! He has had a pretty good selection, even through the latest round of madness and temporary stoppage of Goex production. He’s GREAT to work with, and his cell number is right on his website!

 
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
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Location
Greenville, SC: USA
years ago I tried to find some here in Greenville and every shop I went to said no way, the Fire Marshall would not allow it. So I found a place on line, recommended by someone here I suspect. It was probably only about 5 or 6 years ago. I'm going into my storage and look at a can of the stuff.
The stuff I bought was GOEX and I just did a web search and it appears they shut down last year ....BUT are starting back up.... then I did a little more checking and found this on line store: https://powderinc.com/product/goex-3fg-black-powder/

The only issue is the dern stuff cost $35 a pound with a 5lb minimum order and I presume that does not include shipping.

I did not have as much as I thought.... only 4 & 1/2 pounds tucked away in the bottom of my ammo cabinet in a 50 caliber ammo can. with about 5lbs of tanerite in 30 cal cans sitting on top of it.... and then about 14,000 rounds of ammo in cans around and over this..... one day you might read about me...
 

RSIno1

Hunter
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Southern California
The only issue is the dern stuff cost $35 a pound with a 5lb minimum order and I presume that does not include shipping.
Check your local storage rules.

How much black powder can you own in CA?
California does place limits on storage of smokeless propellant - 20 pounds - and black powder - 1 pound.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Greenville, SC: USA
My one worry is if our house caught on fire when we are not home.... this storage area has two doors into it and both have the appropriate signage to basically tell any fireman, or woman to get the hell out of there.... "Run Away!... Run AWAY!"
 

XP100

Blackhawk
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
503
Location
Florida
Please note that this item was manufactured in the 1840s. ANY longarm or handgun made before 1898 is exempt from federal licensing. While some states may or may not require some sort of paperwork for ownership, NJ does not, and I have heard of none that do. This is why non-gun dealers such as pawn shops and antique stores can sell them. As for shipping it somewhere- the carrier and states may have their own rules.
Why then was a professor in NJ arrested a few years back for having an early original flintlock pistol??
 

dwayne

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
275
Location
Eastern Virginia
Real black powder is a Class 1.1 explosive, unlike smokeless powders. A crude illustration of the difference between black and smokeless powder would look like this … Wiley Coyote sets a moderate charge of smokeless powder in the hen house and pours out a 100 foot line of the powder as a fuse. He lights it and watches it as it burns and then it goes, pfffffsssssttt (just like on the cartoons). Next time he uses black powder instead. This time as soon as he lights the line … WOOF BOOOOM! The hen house is instantaneously destroyed in a ball of flame and burning feathers rain down in a large perimeter. Black powder acts nothing like smokeless powder when not compressed. I have been buying black powder for 50+ years and never seen it mailed or shipped to a household. So, you are limited to finding it somewhere that offers it for sale.
 

Joe Chartreuse

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 1, 2022
Messages
161
Location
New Jersey
Why then was a professor in NJ arrested a few years back for having an early original flintlock pistol??
Never heard of that case and cant find it, but strong possibility he had some sort of criminal record in his background. Though no checks are required for black powder, no convicted felon can own any firearm. He may have had another problem and this popped up. Of course, here in NJ the cops will screw with people. Tasers, Stun guns, ans ASP batons all became legal to carry only 5 years ago. Though legal, cops will still hassle you for them, write you up, and cause you to waste time in court where is is always dismissed. Just the kind of place it is.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Richmond Texas USA
I have been buying black powder for 50+ years and never seen it mailed or shipped to a household. So, you are limited to finding it somewhere that offers it for sale
Dwayne,
I bought 25# about 5 years ago and it came to the house. I can't remember who I bought it from but it is a company that many SASS shooters buy from. I think the MAX you can have shipped is 50#
I'm not at home so can't see who I bought the BP from.

I have also bought some in the past from Bass Pro since their store was outside of Houston they were able to store and sell it.

Found the supplier
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Uncle Howie

Buckeye
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May 28, 2004
Messages
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MN
I have been buying black powder for 50+ years and never seen it mailed or shipped to a household. So, you are limited to finding it somewhere that offers it for sale.
Off the top of my head, I believe that the following will all ship real black powder to home addresses…
-Crater Fireworks
-Graf’s (may have sold/be open under a different name?)
-Maine Powder House

I’m sure that there are many more…
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
8,995
Location
Greenville, SC: USA
Thanks for the names guys... I could not find the name of the place I bought mine from but I suspect it was one of y'all that gave me the link a few years ago. Even though I have several black powder revolvers, I never shoot them.... too much work to load and then clean... but I might just do it as a demonstration at a machine gun shoot my professional work group is putting on next month. I got the word yesterday that because we skimped on things last year our president has authorized $4,000 for ammo this year.... Anybody near Columbia S.C. on Sept 16th is welcome to attend.
 

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