It really angers me that not only are the people who abuse the privilege of being able to shoot on public lands trashing nature and making it an eyesore, but their disregard and disrespect make shooters look bad as a whole and lead to increasing regulations and shooting area closures. I'll grab some trash whenever I go- but it's a losing battle. One of the reasons I like shooting steel is that there's no junk left behind.Yep, that looks like the kind of place people used to HUNT. Then they start "sighting in there", next they tell a few friends and the trees start to disappear and the trash and junk show up. Then it turns in to an eroded dump "to far up hill" to walk to any more.
Funny how these people who don't like the rules never turn their own back yard in to a -- hole like that.
That is truly ridiculousI have four ranges in my area that I've used. I'll just call them #'s1, 2, 3, 4. Now down to two. I understand ranges have rules, some I don't agree with but not a bother. Other rules are acceptable & easy to comply. The two I will no longer visit, #1 physically checks ammo. I mean pulls rounds from the box & eyeballs each cartridge. Now they have the usual rules about tracers & armor piercing rounds. but I thought this was a bit overboard. Range #2 wanted to inspect my guns. I started to un case them all & decided to go to ranges 3 & 4. They don't do these inspections. Unless I was going to compete, & there were rules regarding the equipment, I never had to go through this type of scrutiny. Even though I realize & understand the concern of their liability, I just had it in my head that they were complying with the 'what if program', everyone is incompetent, and maybe reacting to YouTube videos.
I've run ranges, indoor & out door, & have used ranges in six states & never dealt with this before. At some stores you have to be buzzed in and others not. Same with pawn shops. The ones that do tell you it's required. But apparently not rquired by all. Hmmm.
I know, I took it personal, but I'm tired of having to deal with rules established for someone playing what if. . Well it's their business, & I'll go to 3 & 4. End of rant/vent.
Just my two cents for what it's worth.
I've run ranges both indoor & out door. Sponsored league & open events. I kept rules to a minimum. Unless it was a match that had equipment requirements I didn't have to inspect all guns or ammo. If someone committed an infraction, then that person was dealt with, not all others. You do your job as a range officer. I've had LEO's called by neighbors & I've had complaints by neighbors also. All baseless. (LEO's were getting annoyed by the calls.)Ok, there are (4) ranges you can use.
(1) You are fortunate to have that many available. Many people have a hard time just finding a place to shoot. Just think, you could NOT have ANY place to shoot.
(2) As you've mentioned,, liability issues as well as the expenses of just operating with the media & worries added to such liability.
(3) Due to IDIOTS doing stupid stuff with ammo & guns,, inspections can prevent damages to a range, AND protect the other people in the range. (Excessive reloads, squibs etc can cause issues.) And with the new regs concerning pistol braces & their popularity etc,, they may be trying to head off headaches etc.
Remember,, the ATF sends out agents to do stuff to gun shops & ranges trying to "catch" businesses doing stuff wrong. Remember,, they want to put us out of business.
(4) Many ranges are going to membership & private rules etc to help ward off the "What if's" that can pop up.
(5) What happens if you lose all (4) places due to shut downs, lawsuits, or if you just choose to quit using them? People not utilizing a business, will cause them to go out of business.
(6) Outdoor ranges have to be concerned with their neighbors too.
(7) I agree it's more fun to be "self regulated" & only have your friends & such around, but it's still a business.
(8) Holding a driver's license is a form of protection. Locally, about a month or two back, a young couple went to a local range. Rented (2) guns, went to shoot, got done, went back into the shop, then ran out the door, stealing the (2) guns. They had used a fake ID,, but were caught.
(9) Lots of ranges now have a "brass on the floor belongs to the range" rule. Not only to keep the brass as an extra income potential,, BUT,,, it also keeps Joe-Dumb-Butt from going forward of a firing line to get his brass while the range is hot. And yes,, I have seen this.
(10) Good points bobski about the loaded guns incoming. I have a "No gun handling" rule on my range, UNLESS in a safe area or under the supervision of a RO. Also, no loaded firearms on the range during a match unless under the supervision of a RO AND in a bay.
I had a gun club (they were renting my place for matches) where the club prez decided the rules didn't apply to him. He'd keep his CCW on his person, AND told a few other people they could break my handling rule in an unsafe manner. I had to eject that guy, AND he took issues with it, so I ejected the whole club. SAFETY FIRST for EVERYBODY.
Now,, why not ask for a meeting with the owner(s) of such places to find out WHY they have their rules. And you can express YOUR concerns to the owner about why you prefer to go elsewhere?
I own a range.
I built it LONG ago, with the idea that it would give me a place to shoot as well as a place to allow my friends a place to shoot. Sadly, due to thefts, damages, and liability,, I can't allow it to be "open" any longer. I do have events there, and we shoot USPSA matches there. But problems caused me to shut down my "easy access" to others.
Sadly, in todays society,, we are subjected to lawsuits over EVERYTHING. And gun owners, gun shops, gun ranges all are TARGETS for the anti-gun crowd, who want to do everything they can to force us all to go away. They can't (easily) change the Constitution, but they can make it very hard to exercise out right. We are seeing the end results of decades of attacks upon us.
Deranged psychopaths buy guns, go to ranges & practice, then go shoot up a school, or mall or church or whatever. They buy the guns legally, practice legally, then commit crimes. Yet,, a commercial gun range or a gun shop can still face huge legal bills even if they were totally in the right.
My lawyer described it in (2) simple yet powerful terms; "Negligence" and "Deliberate Indifference."
Now,, I have rules on my range, and yet, I've had to stop shooters & others for infractions & such. I've had LEO's called by neighbors. And I've had complaints by neighbors.
Just remember,, we could lose it all easily. But EDUCATE yourself by actually talking to the owners of places that have regulations as to WHY they have such rules. You may be in for a surprise.
That evidently happens a lot. I was at a facility that included a range hosting our FONRA banquet/auction when a retired police officer ended it on the range. You just never know what could happen walking down the street much less when you throw firearms into the mix. The worst part was that it was a private club and many of the members knew him. They could never see the range the same again.I can't see anything written that should cause offense by anyone else.
One thing not mentioned here is that some ranges I have shot at, people have committed suicide. One place was back in Washington state and another was here in Dallas. Not while I was there, of course, it was explained to me they have all these rules because this has happened before.
Although I suppose it would be hard to create a rule to prevent someone from doing such things.