Beginning to think the education system has failed our kids.

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While I understand your point, you really need to "adjust" your expectations to reality.
With today's continuing and accelerating technology changes I wouldn't expect anybody other than a manufactures rep to have much of an idea what
accessories go with what product, even they may have to look it up.
I'll give you the one about North America though......
 

Bob Wright

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While I understand your point, you really need to "adjust" your expectations to reality.
With today's continuing and accelerating technology changes I wouldn't expect anybody other than a manufactures rep to have much of an idea what
accessories go with what product, even they may have to look it up.
I'll give you the one about North America though......
I'll have to disagree with your there. Anyone who is in the business of selling anything should make it their business to know as much as possible about the products they sell. Maybe not entirely familiar with those products, but at least knowing where that information is available. And being able and willing to find that information for the prospective customer.

Bob Wright
 

ronto

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I hear this criticism of youth and this country and of our education system often on the forum and it kinda makes me a little sick. There are more smart youth, well run schools and parts of this country that are just outstanding. Maybe some people just like to feel superior over others and to blame certain others for all the problems. Go ahead, get it off your chest but don't believe the youth, this country or our institutions are going to heck. We are strong in all the right places.
Where do you think Canada and Alaska are?
 

black1970

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I taught 7th and 8th grade in JR High in the early 70’s. When I took up the lunch money on Monday morning in my home room most of the students could not make change for a dollar. I knew something was seriously wrong then. Even back then there were no failures or holdovers. That’s when I realized the US was in VERY SERIOUS TROUBLE. Taught 3 years and got enough of it then I became a Detroit Diesel mechanic. Finally a real job. Probably most of those kids now cannot make change for a dollar. But seriously, most people don’t realize how much trouble we are in because most people now are the ones I dealt with in the 70’s. America has been dumbed down for the last 40 years.
 

RSIno1

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You guys have missed the start date and cause. In the 60s Khrushchev said the USSR would bury the US without ever firing a shot. Their plan was simple - infiltrate the education system. If you take out the 12 years of Reagan and Trump the old Ruskie was spot on.
 
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I'll have to disagree with your there. Anyone who is in the business of selling anything should make it their business to know as much as possible about the products they sell. Maybe not entirely familiar with those products, but at least knowing where that information is available. And being able and willing to find that information for the prospective customer.

Bob Wright
He was in Walmart.
 
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I’d be curious to know how many of you who are putting down the school systems actually have kids in school.


I know several students who were held back to repeat a grade. It happens fairly often. It’s just not advertised publicly.

My daughter is in a private school. And same as what hittman said above; she is about a year ahead of her friends who go to public school. All of them are in the 8th grade.
This isn't something new either. Way back in 1948 i finished the 5th grade. Mrs Kolb, the principal wanted to advance me to the 7th and skip the 6th. My mom said no. She said that if for no other reason than social. I am SO GLAD! The next year I left the public school system and started my 6th grade at St Mary's Elementary school. I struggled the entire year because they were already doing 7th level work and I didn't have to worry about the social age difference to boot. Years later, I was talking English 1 at the University of Maryland and was using the same book we used in our first semester of 12th grade.
 
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Even at home,, kids are not being taught responsibility, or given chores that require thinking or actual work. How about this. When was the last time you know of a kid required to come home & read a book for at least an hour,, as required by either school or a parent?
My daughter’s school always requires summer school work. They have to read two books for English and answer some questions, and then around 7 or 8 hours of this online Math program they use during the school year also.

The public schools around here stopped ALL homework. Their reasoning? Those kids who have parents that work two jobs wouldn’t have an adult present to help them with homework if needed. They also wanted those kids to have more time to be able to spend with the parents who might work two jobs. So it was definitely a social-economic decision.

My daughter’s friends that go to public school end up playing more video games as a result of this. But it’s so easy to see the spread and difference in the same grade between public and private. I always try to ask innocent questions too about what they might be studying etc.
 

eveled

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Just like anything else. The kids will learn if they want to. The public school system produces some very smart people.
 
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I hear this criticism of youth and this country and of our education system often on the forum and it kinda makes me a little sick. There are more smart youth, well run schools and parts of this country that are just outstanding. Maybe some people just like to feel superior over others and to blame certain others for all the problems. Go ahead, get it off your chest but don't believe the youth, this country or our institutions are going to heck. We are strong in all the right places.
Sorry Jimbo, your pie in the sky doesn’t get it here in middle Tn. Our local BOE has closed the two best functioning(highest test scores), sold the buildings and folded them into the other two poorly performing schools without considering the parents etc. they claim they don’t have enough money to keep the ones closed open, but are going to build a $30-40 million Middle School. Our HS grads working at Hardee’s and McDonalds can’t make change without a calculator!
gramps
 

Johnny-Baseball

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Bob wrote, "Scoff if you will about belief in God, but without God, there is no authoritative ultimate answer. Each man's opinion is just as valid as the next."

I totally agree. Spiritually is the source of morality. Without morality, society is left with "legal" conduct as the only behavioral guidance. So now that legality is subjectively adjudicated, it too is slowly fading away. Sadly, that's where I believe the USA is today: morality is but a faint whisper, and legal conduct is honored more in the breach.
 
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To a degree Joseph Sobran had it right:

"In 100 years we have gone from teaching Latin and Greek in High School to teaching remedial English in college.".

Then you do add in math and it gets worse as others note without a calculator or their phones they are stuck. It is or will left up to yes, the great number of those students that want to and are working hard to learn to carry the weight of more and more...

Yes, there are colleges that are well known names that do have to teach remedial English and dumbbell math to new students.
 

dbracing

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Between 1972 and 2015, I spent 40 years in the classroom, in 4 districts in 2 different states. When I retired, I had earned a Bachelors Degree, 2 Masters, and had completed all the coursework for a Doctorate. My level of education placed me at the very top of the salary schedule, which is about 40% of what may have been available in the private sector, but I was doing what I loved, so it didn't matter.

During my time in the classroom, I noticed a significant shift in the students attitude toward learning, and came to the conclusion that, in large part, it was the result of the collapse of the nuclear family. Those families who had parents who took an active part in the education of their children were almost guaranteed to have successful children. 2 working parents is no excuse for not being involved in the education of the child, those who are truly interested will MAKE the time to be involved. The students who were most successful were supported by parents who cared and found the time to be there no matter what was happening in their personal lives.
 

dbracing

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I might add, the last district I worked in is a very large metropolitan district with 20 or so high schools, one of which has a 2 year Latin requirement to graduate. If you don't pass Latin, you are expelled from the school. That particular high school is one of the 2 "safe" schools in the district in that no one needs be concerned with being shot or stabbed at the school.
 
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I might add, the last district I worked in is a very large metropolitan district with 20 or so high schools, one of which has a 2 year Latin requirement to graduate. If you don't pass Latin, you are expelled from the school. That particular high school is one of the 2 "safe" schools in the district in that no one needs be concerned with being shot or stabbed at the school.
Serious question.
And how did they guarantee the " safe " aspect at those two schools ?

Half assed question...How would Latin have been a valuable addition to my education?
 

Snake Pleskin

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I hear this criticism of youth and this country and of our education system often on the forum and it kinda makes me a little sick. There are more smart youth, well run schools and parts of this country that are just outstanding. Maybe some people just like to feel superior over others and to blame certain others for all the problems. Go ahead, get it off your chest but don't believe the youth, this country or our institutions are going to heck. We are strong in all the right places.
I DISAGREE. I did teach and the class room is dominated and run by Liberal academia and if you disagree with them, you are ignored and pushed out. Children learn nothing but PC correct views of the world and not the truth.
 

Snake Pleskin

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I agree with Jimbo in the point that SOME of our schools do turn out good kids with a well rounded education.
But I'll stick by my comments earlier,,, in that the MAJORITY of the public school system (clarifying there,) is NOT doing a good job.

And I'll go a bit further.

Even at home,, kids are not being taught responsibility, or given chores that require thinking or actual work. How about this. When was the last time you know of a kid required to come home & read a book for at least an hour,, as required by either school or a parent?
Kids used to read books. They used to be given chores & responsibility that required them to have to apply themselves.

Trade schools & Tech schools are better than colleges anymore. If you want to learn a skill, you will have to apply yourself,, AND know how to read, write, and do math.

But the sad reality is too many kids feel "entitled" and think they are above learning.
I've heard older teens say; "I'm not working for minimum wage,, I'm worth more than that!" To which I wonder; "What's your work history? What's your skill level? What makes you worth more than minimum wage?"

And yes,, the kids who were raised in a good education system, either a school or at home or even both,, are usually the ones companies love to find as employees. But they are a minority anymore.

I was talking with a manager at a well know, big store. He commented on how he loved to hire elderly people who just wanted to work a day or two a week. He commented on how they were already educated beyond any teen. How they have a work ethic, and appreciate having a job to keep themselves busy. He said they train easily, and require little supervision. He allowed how often a teen or even a 20-something person was often a LOT more headaches to deal with.

Yes,, the general education system in this country for our youth has deteriorated badly.
Yet,, teachers all seem to claim; "We are underpaid. We have too many kids to try & teach. We want more benefits. etc." Here in NC,, it's a CONSTANT thing to hear in the media.
And to top it off,, school supplies for kids always seem to be in short supply. Just yesterday,, the locally owned grocery chain, Ingles, had a day where people could donate school supplies to get the stuff necessary for the kids to be able to just take classes. The list of "needs" is a bit stunning.

I used to think home schooling wasn't a good thing. Yet,, I've learned that most home schooled kids score well above their peers on all tests. And quite often,, they are the ones with a solid work ethic.
A pleasant thing to see.

And Charter schools. They require kids to do more work,,, but I also see subjects that could use improvement. And some subjects that could be dropped or only taken as extras or electives. But they do seem to turn out kids with a bit better education than the public system.

With all that,, I know that some folks here on the Forum are either teachers, or were teachers, or are married to teachers.
I'm not saying the individual teachers are bad,, but it's the SYSTEM that they must follow, and obey. And yes,, the teachers union is a lot more powerful now, and as noted above, the bigger they get,, the worse the results are.

I'll close with this. I could never last as a teacher. I'd demand the kids do the work or fail. I'd demand discipline or they'd be out the door. And I know the system would not accept me doing that.

Kevin was typing at the same time I was. I'll add;
Locally, I keep a close association with many kids in the community. None have been failed & held back in a long time. I've asked about that. They find "alternative" classes that the kids can take to get passed,, instead of failing them. No, I do not have any kids in a school,, but I do keep up with a lot of it. There's a Charter school less than a mile from me. And my local BSA Troop, I keep up with the adults & kids via that. I'm retired from active Scouting,, but long before I retired,, I saw these things I speak of directly,,, all the time.
I did teach. I had a class of remedial students, that had flunked everything, every single class. They were repeating the grade. Most were from broken homes, single parents, poor English etc. I was told that they all had to pass, give them D's and push them through. Many of these kids could barely read, spell or add 2 n2 !! THIS is the true Liberal academic system!
 

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