Beginning to think the education system has failed our kids.

Help Support Ruger Forum:

Bear Paw Jack

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Messages
9,572
Location
Alaska, Idaho USA
Went to Best Buy, looking for a GPS. I asked the guy if this particular model covered Canada and Alaska. He said, "Let me look, No just North America" I said they are in North America. He just looked at me and said, "OH"

So I ended up going to Walmart, against my better judgement. Went to electronics and asked the lady at the counter where the GPS's were. She said I don't know what that is. When she finally figured out what I was looking for she pointed and couldn't get out of there quick enough, just in case I asked a question. Nobody around there knew which mount worked for that GPS.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
21,462
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
Yes,, the education system has failed our kids in so many ways. Solid skills like reading, (actual) writing, normal math, true history,, (good & bad), economics, all seem to be pushed aside in favor of whatever curve is necessary for them to pass the kids along.

When was the last time you heard of a kid failing a grade & being held back?
 

powder smoke

Hawkeye
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
6,793
Location
Milo Maine
Sorry to say many use schools as babysitters!
America is swirling the drain it's sad! I phones are evil for children!
If they spent the time they use on their phones on homework
we would have a nation of brilliant kids. ps
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
10,331
Location
Webster, MD.
Nobody around there knew which mount worked for that GPS.
Being the 'devils advocate' for a minute. Considering how many different GPS are on the market and how many different mounts are available I doubt that many can remember which fits what, BUT I bet the 'buyer', if he/she was smart enough, could read the package and make a determination.
 

Mobuck

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
7,352
Location
missouri
It's not just about product knowledge/information.
Right before Christmas 2020(?) I picked up a few small gift items and when checking out paid cash. Unfortunately, the drawer was short on $1 bills and the high school age boy had to use his phone to determine how many quarters it took to make $2. I would expect any kid over 8 years old to KNOW such things w/o calculations.
This didn't start yesterday or two years ago. Thirty years ago, I sat across the desk from an assistant bank manager filling out a financial report to process a farm loan. He could not make simple calculations w/o using a machine--yet he was determining if I was capable of paying back a loan. I was considerably offended by the fact that a pinhead who couldn't do simple mental math calculations was controlling my future.
 

Jimbo357mag

Hawkeye
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
10,185
Location
So. Florida
I hear this criticism of youth and this country and of our education system often on the forum and it kinda makes me a little sick. There are more smart youth, well run schools and parts of this country that are just outstanding. Maybe some people just like to feel superior over others and to blame certain others for all the problems. Go ahead, get it off your chest but don't believe the youth, this country or our institutions are going to heck. We are strong in all the right places.
 

314Chevy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 29, 2015
Messages
199
Location
Southport, NC
Our education system is teaching our youth, its just the wrong lesson. Ask any high school kid and he/she will tell you how unjust America is. We are racist, looting is justified and reparations required. Then ask them about cis, they, ze (what the heck is that!) and the student will go on for hours on the many different sexes to be found.
It scares me to think of what America will be 30 years from now.
 

Slidboot

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
8
The other day at Lowe's, I asked a young employee where I might find a soldering iron. He sent me to lawn and garden; I realized he thought I was looking for sod.
Not too long a ago, a nephew, a recent high school grad, asked me if I could explain to him what insurance was and what real estate was. That kid couldn't have known less if he'd spent the last twelve years living in a tree.
 

Jimbo357mag

Hawkeye
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
10,185
Location
So. Florida
If the average person was put behind the counter of a big box store electronics dept how well could they explain all the gadgets there. I know a younger person than me would do a whole lot better. What is a clerks job anyway, to sell and ring up stuff, to help customers, right? pay them min. wage and expect them to know a lot. I wonder?

Oh BTW, I bet the info on the GPS is online and quite extensive. Good luck.
 

hittman

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
9,957
Location
Illinois
Minimum wage should be something set by market conditions, not the government. And BTW, minimum wage is $15 an hour in most places. The “low minimum wage” argument is a non-starter. It’s as big a lie as Democrats being the only ones who care about minorities.

Public schools have been a disaster for a few decades as is most everything run by the government. Like labor unions, they reward and promote mediocrity. And now they’ve been weaponized against certain conservative and religious students and parents.

The average STARTING SALARY plus benefits for a public school teacher with a Bachelors degree here in my small midwestern town is now $28.00 an hour.
 

vito

Hunter
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
2,820
Location
Northern Illinois
I'm only surprised that you said you are "beginning" to think the system has failed. Its been obvious to me for years. My youngest son had the good fortune to attend a private and high quality school from K to 8th grade and get an excellent early education. I spent the bucks to send him there because I had already lost faith in the public school system. He went a bit astray in his life for several years, including dropping out of High School during his freshman year. A few years later he went back for his GED and easily passed every test without going to a single class because he had gotten a good basic education (and he's doing well right now as an experienced welder, supporting his family). His two boys are in public school and while they are learning the basics, they are learning virtually nothing about American history or about American values. Their school day includes all too much time devoted to "diversity and equity". What they are learning about history is likely a very negative view of America. And the youngest is being taught to read using what now is in vogue in education and is a form of "sight reading" rather than phonics. He learns specific words and not how to sound out a word that he has never seen. Appalling and putting a big burden on his parents and grandparents to try to make up for the gaps in what he is getting in public school.
 

hittman

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
9,957
Location
Illinois
Moved my kids from public to private school in the 90s. Some times you gotta put your money where your mouth is.

My son was in the public schools “TAG” program …. Talented and Gifted in English and Social Studies. After his first quarter in private school, his grades were in the C and D range. Had to hire a tutor to bring him up to private school standards. He was literally over 1 year behind what they taught in private schools.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
7,845
Location
Dallas, TX
I’d be curious to know how many of you who are putting down the school systems actually have kids in school.


I know several students who were held back to repeat a grade. It happens fairly often. It’s just not advertised publicly.

My daughter is in a private school. And same as what hittman said above; she is about a year ahead of her friends who go to public school. All of them are in the 8th grade.
 

hittman

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
9,957
Location
Illinois
My kids all graduated in the 2000 to 2008 range. Have 5 grandkids there now though.

Here if a kid fails, they attend “summer school” for 3 weeks and then push them on through.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
21,462
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
I agree with Jimbo in the point that SOME of our schools do turn out good kids with a well rounded education.
But I'll stick by my comments earlier,,, in that the MAJORITY of the public school system (clarifying there,) is NOT doing a good job.

And I'll go a bit further.

Even at home,, kids are not being taught responsibility, or given chores that require thinking or actual work. How about this. When was the last time you know of a kid required to come home & read a book for at least an hour,, as required by either school or a parent?
Kids used to read books. They used to be given chores & responsibility that required them to have to apply themselves.

Trade schools & Tech schools are better than colleges anymore. If you want to learn a skill, you will have to apply yourself,, AND know how to read, write, and do math.

But the sad reality is too many kids feel "entitled" and think they are above learning.
I've heard older teens say; "I'm not working for minimum wage,, I'm worth more than that!" To which I wonder; "What's your work history? What's your skill level? What makes you worth more than minimum wage?"

And yes,, the kids who were raised in a good education system, either a school or at home or even both,, are usually the ones companies love to find as employees. But they are a minority anymore.

I was talking with a manager at a well know, big store. He commented on how he loved to hire elderly people who just wanted to work a day or two a week. He commented on how they were already educated beyond any teen. How they have a work ethic, and appreciate having a job to keep themselves busy. He said they train easily, and require little supervision. He allowed how often a teen or even a 20-something person was often a LOT more headaches to deal with.

Yes,, the general education system in this country for our youth has deteriorated badly.
Yet,, teachers all seem to claim; "We are underpaid. We have too many kids to try & teach. We want more benefits. etc." Here in NC,, it's a CONSTANT thing to hear in the media.
And to top it off,, school supplies for kids always seem to be in short supply. Just yesterday,, the locally owned grocery chain, Ingles, had a day where people could donate school supplies to get the stuff necessary for the kids to be able to just take classes. The list of "needs" is a bit stunning.

I used to think home schooling wasn't a good thing. Yet,, I've learned that most home schooled kids score well above their peers on all tests. And quite often,, they are the ones with a solid work ethic.
A pleasant thing to see.

And Charter schools. They require kids to do more work,,, but I also see subjects that could use improvement. And some subjects that could be dropped or only taken as extras or electives. But they do seem to turn out kids with a bit better education than the public system.

With all that,, I know that some folks here on the Forum are either teachers, or were teachers, or are married to teachers.
I'm not saying the individual teachers are bad,, but it's the SYSTEM that they must follow, and obey. And yes,, the teachers union is a lot more powerful now, and as noted above, the bigger they get,, the worse the results are.

I'll close with this. I could never last as a teacher. I'd demand the kids do the work or fail. I'd demand discipline or they'd be out the door. And I know the system would not accept me doing that.

Kevin was typing at the same time I was. I'll add;
Locally, I keep a close association with many kids in the community. None have been failed & held back in a long time. I've asked about that. They find "alternative" classes that the kids can take to get passed,, instead of failing them. No, I do not have any kids in a school,, but I do keep up with a lot of it. There's a Charter school less than a mile from me. And my local BSA Troop, I keep up with the adults & kids via that. I'm retired from active Scouting,, but long before I retired,, I saw these things I speak of directly,,, all the time.
 

hittman

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
9,957
Location
Illinois
The last 2 technical or trade schools we had here went bankrupt and closed.

And yes, there are many public school educated school students who turn out well. It’s just that the number of those actually harmed by the system should get our focus.
 

Bob Wright

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
6,331
Location
Memphis, TN USA
For fun ask people you know how many ounces are in a cup, or how many cups in a quart. How many feet in a mile. Etc
Now hold on a minute! I didn't learn about cups and teable spoons until late in life. My measures were ounces, pounds, and tons. And, of course grains and feet per second. I do know how many yards, feet, and inches there are in a mile. I'm aware of things like meters, liters, and grams, though have a hard time visualizing them. Am learning millimeters, but reluctantly.

But the real problem today is not so much the school system, but rather the breakdown of the American home. Men father children, and women bear them. But they fail miserably being fathers and mothers. And, yes, the spiritual upbringing of todays youngsters, is greatly lacking.

Spiritual upbringing? There is no God in instruction today. Scoff if you will about belief in God, but without God, there is no authoritative ultimate answer. Each man's opinion is just as valid as the next.

Want to make America Great again? Re-establish the American Home. Teach values to the youth.

Bob Wright
 

Latest posts

Top