Atlanta, GA: Empty lot with no water line gets nearly $30K bill(owner’s appeal loses

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hpman66

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"The FOX 5 I-Team has reported for months about the Department of Watershed Management's appeals process where it's hard to win a case. We poured over 18 months of cases appealed by DWM customers. In these situations, when Watershed denied adjustments to disputed bills, customers then went to the Sewer and Water Appeals Board. In our research, they lost 80% of the time."
 
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I'll bet that the city has a little known clause that says something like; "Water fees will be charged to property owners if city water is available within 100 ft of any property. No meter or usage required."

I say this because the Town of Lake Lure NC can charge a water bill fee,, even if there is no meter, no usage, or anything. Just because the city water is "made available & is in city limits." And of course,, you can't drill your own well inside the city limits either.
 
Once a bill is "overdue" they have fees & fines added to the initial bill.

Our log cabin in Lake Lure,, had the water turned off,, meter removed because nobody was living there, and it needed work before we could sell it. We had a water bill come in, we informed them of the fact that we had them remove the meter, etc. We even had our lawyer send them a letter about it. After 3 months,, we had a much larger bill, (fees, fines, inspections etc,) and it would have gotten worse if we hadn't paid it, AND kept paying it until we sold it.

And I'll give you another example of how they rob people.
If you have city sewer,, you get charged for that as well, even if you don't have water going in or out. Double charging for non-existent service.

I'll bet that the $30,000.00 bill had stuff added after the fact due to the city's "expenses" and also, it's possible it included the sewer fees.

Pure robbery.
 
Once a bill is "overdue" they have fees & fines added to the initial bill.

Our log cabin in Lake Lure,, had the water turned off,, meter removed because nobody was living there, and it needed work before we could sell it. We had a water bill come in, we informed them of the fact that we had them remove the meter, etc. We even had our lawyer send them a letter about it. After 3 months,, we had a much larger bill, (fees, fines, inspections etc,) and it would have gotten worse if we hadn't paid it, AND kept paying it until we sold it.

And I'll give you another example of how they rob people.
If you have city sewer,, you get charged for that as well, even if you don't have water going in or out. Double charging for non-existent service.

I'll bet that the $30,000.00 bill had stuff added after the fact due to the city's "expenses" and also, it's possible it included the sewer fees.

Pure robbery.
Sad to say, but in many places, you might save a few bucks by switching party affiliation…. Not sure how Lake Lure operates….
 
"And I'll give you another example of how they rob people.
If you have city sewer,, you get charged for that as well, even if you don't have water going in or out. Double charging for non-existent service. "
This sort of reminds me of how, years ago, the wealthy folks in Manchester, VT that didn't have children fought against paying school taxes. But I think you have a stronger and more just argument.
 
In Lake Lure,, they take your water usage,, and charge you the same number of gallons in, as sewage going out. If you use 500 gallons of water according to the water meter,, then they charge you for 500 gallons of sewage.

Luckily,, my cabin there had a septic system,, installed prior to them making those decisions. I only had a water bill.

Now,, where I'm at,, out of the city limits,, I have a well & a septic system. A few years ago,, the county ran a public water system. They offered us "free hook-up" etc. They pushed it a fair bit. I did not get the county water stuff,, even when they sent letters saying that if I wanted to tap on later,, it would cost me $800.00 to tap on, and then a monthly water bill.
Never did it,, and I've not regretted it either.
If my well has an issue,, even if I have to pay for the work or equipment,, I'm still money ahead.

Even local governments want to do all they can to stop independent people.
 
They don't have the infrastructure to measure the waste from each home,, so instead of installing a system that could,, long ago,, they just decided to charge according to water consumption via the water meters. It was a cheap way for them.

Of course,, here in Lake Lure,, they kept pushing off necessary work on a few other things,, or patching the problems then passing them to the next administration. All this happened once people who were not raised around here got elected to city council & mayor,, which started in the early 1970's. It didn't happen overnight,, but a gradual process.

Another good example of how this once nice little tourist town has been ruined. Our municipal golf course. Back in the 1920's, as the town was being built,, land was given to build a golf course. It was enough land to only do (9) holes. The gift has a catch. The town must use it for recreational purposes, with a golf course as the main idea. OTHERWISE,, the property would have to be returned to the original owner or their heirs. So the town built a 9 hole golf course,, and it was the only golf course until the 1960.s. And the town had a program in place to set aside money to eventually buy more land & increase the size to an 18 hole course. Over the decades,, that fund kept growing,,, but it wasn't enough to happen before an imported retiree know it all, (who also was later found to be very crooked,) got elected mayor. He got a large scale, gated community resort to get behind him for the election. (Part of his promises were to do all he could to make the lake more exclusive for the folks who only lived there.)
Once he got elected,, he "found" a large bank account of money. His words; "Found." When the prior mayor was asked about it,, he said is was known to be there all along,, and it was for the town to buy land for the additional 9 holes. Well, the upscale resort types didn't want competition as they were expanding and building a second 18 hole golf course. That money was spent & gone. Now,, the municipal golf course has been closed for about 5 years,, and the only "recreation" is the use of the old cart paths as "walking trails" so that the town doesn't have to give up the land. I've heard they were going to try to develop it until it was "discovered" that the land had the "return to ownership" clause in the deed.

Small town operations are no different than big city ones when it comes to them doing things to get money out of other people. Atlanta & their crap about water fees & such is no different than many other towns that have passed ordinances that cost the residents & property owners money when common sense should not have let such things happen.
 
They don't have the infrastructure to measure the waste from each home,, so instead of installing a system that could,, long ago,, they just decided to charge according to water consumption via the water meters. It was a cheap way for them.

Of course,, here in Lake Lure,, they kept pushing off necessary work on a few other things,, or patching the problems then passing them to the next administration. All this happened once people who were not raised around here got elected to city council & mayor,, which started in the early 1970's. It didn't happen overnight,, but a gradual process.

Another good example of how this once nice little tourist town has been ruined. Our municipal golf course. Back in the 1920's, as the town was being built,, land was given to build a golf course. It was enough land to only do (9) holes. The gift has a catch. The town must use it for recreational purposes, with a golf course as the main idea. OTHERWISE,, the property would have to be returned to the original owner or their heirs. So the town built a 9 hole golf course,, and it was the only golf course until the 1960.s. And the town had a program in place to set aside money to eventually buy more land & increase the size to an 18 hole course. Over the decades,, that fund kept growing,,, but it wasn't enough to happen before an imported retiree know it all, (who also was later found to be very crooked,) got elected mayor. He got a large scale, gated community resort to get behind him for the election. (Part of his promises were to do all he could to make the lake more exclusive for the folks who only lived there.)
Once he got elected,, he "found" a large bank account of money. His words; "Found." When the prior mayor was asked about it,, he said is was known to be there all along,, and it was for the town to buy land for the additional 9 holes. Well, the upscale resort types didn't want competition as they were expanding and building a second 18 hole golf course. That money was spent & gone. Now,, the municipal golf course has been closed for about 5 years,, and the only "recreation" is the use of the old cart paths as "walking trails" so that the town doesn't have to give up the land. I've heard they were going to try to develop it until it was "discovered" that the land had the "return to ownership" clause in the deed.

Small town operations are no different than big city ones when it comes to them doing things to get money out of other people. Atlanta & their crap about water fees & such is no different than many other towns that have passed ordinances that cost the residents & property owners money when common sense should not have let such things happen.
Yep, that is why I live in the country!!!
gramps
 
I too now live in the country, (as you know)!

Today,, I picked up a good friend,, and we attended a funeral together. He still lives in the city limits of LL. He was talking about paying his water & sewer bill this past week. And he too would love to move out of the city.
 
unincorporated towns are the way to go.
Your comment got me to thinking, when I grew up, my parents' home was in unincorporated King Co (south of Seattle). When I moved out at 19, we moved up the hill to a house, also in unincorporated King Co. After getting married we bought a house near Auburn WA, also unincorporated King County. After I moved both my parent's house and the one we rented were annexed into a city (Tukwila). Then three years ago we moved to Arizona, in unincorporated Mohave Co.....I have never lived in a city limits.....also I am now on well and septic, no utilities except electric (which is a co-op) and internet.
 
I've lived in the Metro Atlanta area all of my life. We lived in Fulton County until I was 3 then we moved to Clayton County. When I was in my early 30's I bailed on Clayton County & moved about 30 miles further South. It is about time to move again. Atlanta just keeps pushing out overtaking & overrunning everything around it & there are always people coming in from all over the country.
As for Atlanta/Fulton County, I don't have a very high opinion of the ethics of the people running that place. I need to get my house fixed up so I can sell it & move. The thing is while I am in my trade most of my work is in & around Atlanta. I will be retiring in 4 years. Where I live will matter less then than it does now. I just need to choose my next location carefully. Hopefully I can get enough out of this place to buy something outright & not have a payment.

We are on County water & have a septic system. Our electricity is from an EMC. We live in the county not the city.
 
I still don't see the legality of charging a fee for water service just because a line runs near the property. Our local water supply district has hundreds of miles of waterlines running across ??? number of landowners w/o such foolish fees. They do charge exorbitant fees to connect new meters. I think the estimate was close to $3K for a connection at our north farm plus a $25 per month minimum use fee.
One of the big 'push' items for our local village is a sewer system. Unincorporated and less than 30 residences scattered over about 160 acres. Previously (and currently) sewers have been individual owner responsibility and considering the extremely low income of the area, certainly not 'kosher' (as in: :poop: runs downhill). This is all about to change in a very big way as this village is in the immediate headwaters drainage of what's supposed to be a new public water supply reservoir. No more raw sewage dumping. I've not seen the plans if there are any but this will require no less than a pump station or holding lagoon which would be pumped frequently.
These things are expensive and the village doesn't have any resources to cover the cost. I've heard we'll get an RDA or some other gov't grant to cover initial costs BUT there's that continuing cost of maintenance or pumping. No way those 30 residences can cover the costs w/o charging a huge monthly sewer bill. I don't know how this is going to play out and since I don't own any property within the immediate area, I won't be affected unless there's some sort of tax imposed at the township level to cover those costs.
 
I hear you about the legality of what's done here. I too thought it was illegal to do it. Apparently, due to the town not allowing any more well drilling,, they are required to provide water services to the entire city limits. So, to cover the expenses they have what is basically a "service availability" fee. Kinda like garbage pick-up service.
If you have property in the city limits, you are accessed a fee for garbage services. Even if you only use the house a few weeks out of the year,, you get a fee on your taxes for garbage service.

But if you really want to see an abuse of power & how they bleed money out of people,, try owning a boat, and a lake front house here.
The town built the lake on an existing river,, so it has a "through waterway" meaning they can not restrict the use of the water. HOWEVER,, the town owns the property to mean sea level of 995 ft. But the lake is kept at a sea level of 991. So, technically the edge of the entire lake is owned by the town. So,, they have a mandatory requirement of insurance being required on all boathouses, because they are built on town property. 1/2 million in liability required.
Next,, the boats. since the town owns ALL the land access,, they charge a "boat permit fee" based upon the length of the boat and the horsepower it has. All boats must have a permit (even canoes or kayaks,) to "access" or in other words "trespass" on town property. Thrown in the number of people during tourist season, they now have restrictions on the number of boats they allow. And they also have different permits for different times of the day. (Say, a fisherman wants to fish,, they can get an "off season" permit.)
Next,, they have a different fee structure for "residents" and "non-residents." They define that as; "A resident is a person who owns property in the city limits. A non resident lives or owns property outside the city limits." Now,, the fun part. A person, born & raised here in the County,, who may live 10 ft outside the city limits,, has to pay a non-resident fee, while a person who's primary residence is elsewhere,, but owns a vacation home is allowed resident fees.

There are several other such asinine laws & regulations that they have been slowly accomplishing what the "rich types" want. Privatizing the lake as much as they can legally.
 
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