Ar 15 pistol brace

[Yaworski]

. Prior to that, they were is niche item due to the 2 factor rules as applied to handguns.

What are "two factor rules"?

 

[NikA]

What are "two factor rules"?

"Two feature rules" might be a more appropriate term. For handguns, I believe there was a maximum weight, the ability to accept a magazine outside the grip, and the presence of a barrel shroud, as well as the normal scary black gun list of features.

 

[blume357]

The real issue is not whether we should have been allowed to have these 'pistols' that are really just short barreled rifles but that the BATFE actually created a rule that a rifle with a short barrel needed a NFA tax stamp. Think about it... what makes a short barrel rifle more dangerous than one with a 16" or longer barrel?

Kevin, the company is out of Oregon and they actually pretty much make them on order....

https://www.tnwfirearms.com

 

[Yaworski]

"Two feature rules" might be a more appropriate term. For handguns, I believe there was a maximum weight, the ability to accept a magazine outside the grip, and the presence of a barrel shroud, as well as the normal scary black gun list of features.

The "assault pistol" rules. I'd forgotten about those.

 

[Yaworski]

The real issue is not whether we should have been allowed to have these 'pistols' that are really just short barreled rifles but that the BATFE actually created a rule that a rifle with a short barrel needed a NFA tax stamp. Think about it... what makes a short barrel rifle more dangerous than one with a 16" or longer barrel?

ATF didn't do that. Congress did that with the NFA. Gun Jesus has an interesting video on how that came to pass.

Apparently the NFA was going to ban handguns because they were concealable. Some bright boy said, "You know, if you cut the barrel on a rifle or shotgun, you have a concealable weapon." So short barreled rifles and shotguns were added to the NFA. However, in the end handguns were removed from the NFA but SBRs and SBSs were not. Essentially, they are still in the NFA as an artifact of bad editing.

 

[Mobuck]

AR 'pistol' vs AR SBR??
We have AR 'pistols' primarily to meet state deer hunting regs in a more effective package. 'Alternative Methods' season specifically allows 'handguns'. An SBR is NOT a handgun and is not acceptable even though there's really no diff. All this legal terminology is just fuzz on the dandelion IMHO and hopefully the next 'big wind' will blow it away.

 

[Rat76]

ATF didn't do that. Congress did that with the NFA. Gun Jesus has an interesting video on how that came to pass.

Apparently the NFA was going to ban handguns because they were concealable. Some bright boy said, "You know, if you cut the barrel on a rifle or shotgun, you have a concealable weapon." So short barreled rifles and shotguns were added to the NFA. However, in the end handguns were removed from the NFA but SBRs and SBSs were not. Essentially, they are still in the NFA as an artifact of bad editing.

With the advent of folding PCCs that whole 'can't conceal a rifle' thing kinda goes out the window.

 

[blume357]

A long time ago I took my first Ruger PC9 (the original one) and cut the rear stock off of it and installed a Choate folding stock for a Mossburg 500 on it. It was the rifle I carried for years while walking in the mountains of NC with a Ruger P95 on my side... same caliber ammo and same magazines....

 

[outlaw_dogboy]

@outlaw_dogboy, AR pistols enjoyed a resurgence after the AWB sunset in 2004, so they are almost exactly 20 years old in terms of technology. Prior to that, they were a niche item due to the 2 factor rules as applied to handguns.

Though less onerous travel is indeed an advantage of an AR pistol versus an SBR, the ATF themselves have indicated in the past that a papered SBR lacking SBR features (e.g., swapping the stock for a featureless buffer tube) may be transported as a normal firearm. How long that opinion will be allowed to stand, who can say?

Yeah.... same jokers used to say braces were OK. So.... who knows.

AR 'pistol' vs AR SBR??
We have AR 'pistols' primarily to meet state deer hunting regs in a more effective package. 'Alternative Methods' season specifically allows 'handguns'. An SBR is NOT a handgun and is not acceptable even though there's really no diff. All this legal terminology is just fuzz on the dandelion IMHO and hopefully the next 'big wind' will blow it away.

Yep, legaleese, semantics, all BS. Fuzz, as you say. Hopefully it DOES get blown away. Visciously. Like by a tornado... so to speak.

 

[HANDGUNNER454]

I went in a slightly different direction with this a few years ago... I bought a pistol from TNW firearms in Oregon... this was chambered for 357 sig and can easily be converted to 9mm with a barrel and bolt which I also bought. I also have a longer barrel in both calibers and have right now one of the the longer barrels on it. Nice thing is the barrel change from long to short takes less than 30 seconds.

May want to be careful there. It may be illegal to change a rifle into a pistol. Years ago it was a big issue with TC firearms. You can change a pistol into a rifle but the reverse is not legal in some areas.

 

[Yaworski]

May want to be careful there. It may be illegal to change a rifle into a pistol. Years ago it was a big issue with TC firearms. You can change a pistol into a rifle but the reverse is not legal in some areas.

It was ok to change a pistol to a rifle, the question was if it was ok to convert it back. The TC case settled that if everything came in a kit or you were starting with a pistol, you could convert it back and forth with abandon. The big warning was that you could not make an illegal configuration. So if you had the rifle, you couldn't put the pistol barrel on until you had removed the buttstock. Otherwise the ATF agent in your closet would bust you.

Or imagine this scenario . . . you're converting your rifle back to pistol but are doing things out of sequence because "who's gonna know?" Right? However, while in the midst of things you suffer a heart attack and your wife calls 911. The cops always show up and one sees your currently illegal gun and either arrests you at the ER or arrests your wife.

 

[outlaw_dogboy]

Or imagine this scenario . . . you're converting your rifle back to pistol but are doing things out of sequence because "who's gonna know?" Right? However, while in the midst of things you suffer a heart attack and your wife calls 911. The cops always show up and one sees your currently illegal gun and either arrests you at the ER or arrests your wife.

Very interesting scenario. One I had never thought about. 'Course, I never used to think about heart attacks or strokes at all.