bobbill
Bearcat
Few bad cartridges!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Many sled people!!!!!!!!! Too many!!!!
1!!!
Many sled people!!!!!!!!! Too many!!!!
1!!!
Another new useless cartridge ?
- Thread starter Johnnu2
- Start date
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RC44Mag
Buckeye
Another devils advocate here, when Teddy and the Rough Riders sailed to Cuba with their Krags they thought it would be a cake walk. They quickly found out that they were getting decimated by the enemy at much longer ranges then they could hit with the Krag. The 7mm Mauser quickly made history. History doesn't stand still and Kettle Hill started the the path of different takes on the 7mm round.
There has been quite a few 'improved' versions of the caliber classic including the 7mm RM. Im sure there were many who scoffed at 7mm rounds different from their beloved Mauser also. I own a Browning Stainless Stalker II in 7 rem mag and love it but I see that some may want to shoot a round that would shoot a little flatter and further, it doesn't concern me. If someone wants to make it and some folks want to buy it fine. In the grand scheme of things, useless to you or me is irrelevant. Progress marches forward.
There has been quite a few 'improved' versions of the caliber classic including the 7mm RM. Im sure there were many who scoffed at 7mm rounds different from their beloved Mauser also. I own a Browning Stainless Stalker II in 7 rem mag and love it but I see that some may want to shoot a round that would shoot a little flatter and further, it doesn't concern me. If someone wants to make it and some folks want to buy it fine. In the grand scheme of things, useless to you or me is irrelevant. Progress marches forward.
Xrayist
Single-Sixer
It was pointed out that the interest in long range shooting and the use of ELD bullets have a part in this. Okay, but could someone please explain something to me....I have a 7mm ELD bullet, using a barrel the proper twist rate for that bullet, out of a case that pushes that bullet at a certain velocity. Now I have another case, same bullet, using the same barrel twist, same velocity. Am I understanding then, that there is better accuracy only due to the case used? Not quite sure what difference the cartridge it self makes, when every other factor is exactly the same.
bobbill
Bearcat
7s are kewl; so are 6.5s. And, ditto for others that do the trick. One thing...makes em all shoot well is...be able to shoot it...recoil...
If I were looking for a long-range rifle, I'd give this one a serious, serious look.
One thing working against it, for me, is my fear of it becoming "orphaned" at some point. I like cartridges that have been around for a while, are gonna be around for awhile, and are available as many places as possible. All my centerfire rifles are in one of the following chamberings: .223/5.56; .243; .30 USC, 7.62x39; .308/7.62 NATO; .30-06; .303 Brit. I have at least two of each except the 7.62x39.
(All my CF handguns are in 9mm; .357/.38 Special; .45ACP, or .44 Magnum. Only have the one .44 Mag but multiples of the others.)
One thing working against it, for me, is my fear of it becoming "orphaned" at some point. I like cartridges that have been around for a while, are gonna be around for awhile, and are available as many places as possible. All my centerfire rifles are in one of the following chamberings: .223/5.56; .243; .30 USC, 7.62x39; .308/7.62 NATO; .30-06; .303 Brit. I have at least two of each except the 7.62x39.
(All my CF handguns are in 9mm; .357/.38 Special; .45ACP, or .44 Magnum. Only have the one .44 Mag but multiples of the others.)
Xrayist: I'm not a wildcatter or cartridge developer, but I think shoulder angle and shape, powder column size, shape, powder type, and more up-to-date powder testing helps, along with rifles made for these cartridges. Not sure, but maybe a barrel for a 7mm RemMag might have a twist for a 160gr and another 7mm designed for heavier ELD. Not sure if a newer case design changes inside flaring of primer pockets, but case uniforming can address that. For a well-cut chamber with good head spacing and match barrel of same twist, I'd agree should get similar results, but some newer cartridges with better powder column may use less powder and yield same but more consistent velocity at same or lower pressures.
The steeper shoulder seems to improve accuracy to some degree. It has been demonstrated across many calibers and rounds.
Also, I've read where a longer neck increases bearing surface with bullet and allows seating the long ELD bullets without protruding into the powder column too much. I'm not sure if this extra bearing surface is analogous to using a hard crimp on magnum pistol cartridges to help facilitate a better burn. I know that some rifles need more freebore to keep long bullets off the lands. Adding up all these little differences could make a difference and give new buyers options over the decades-old tried and true cartridges.
Hey guys get a clue PRC is the name. It was not designed to replace 7mm rem mag in hunting camps. Some will show up in hunting camps, but it was designed to be used in PRC matches and win. If the 7mm rem mag could win, there would not be a 7mm PRC. And no, I do not want one. If I shot PRC matches, I would be shooting the 300 PRC and might switch to the 7mm.
I don't and am happy hunting with an 8lb 7mm rem mag in a 77 mark2 or if I stand hunt, the 10 lb 7mm wby Mark V. If I choose to hunt with a 7mm.
I don't and am happy hunting with an 8lb 7mm rem mag in a 77 mark2 or if I stand hunt, the 10 lb 7mm wby Mark V. If I choose to hunt with a 7mm.
Great point, KMoore! I think you hit the nail on the head. I think all the hype is about long range and competition with a little less emphasis on hunting. It's like the formal Benchrest 6PPC. You tool up with that cartridge to win matches, but buy a 243Win to hunt. I used to shoot Remington 7BR in IHMSA, but we can see how a 7mm RemMag would be ideal for hunting. Surely there's overlap and the lines are blurred. Hey,… everybody gets to eat!
Edited for typo
Edited for typo
Hey now!
I appreciate that 10 pounds of wood and iron in mine that's 340 Weatherby Magnum!
The long range shooting game has attracted a lot of participants and would-be participants. Have fun. It doesn't interest me, but that's ok too. My 7mm Remington Magnum will still kill elk and other stuff as well as it always has. I'm not compelled to buy a new rifle/cartridge setup just because it's there and offers some slight real or theoretical edge over what I already have.
I finally got sucked in to the 6.5 Creedmore craze a couple years ago. The first one, a Savage, I wound up giving to my son. The second one, a Bergara, I'm probably going to give to my grandson. Great cartridge, but I'm looking at it from a hunter's perspective not as a long range shooter. As a hunting cartridge, it's fine but certainly no death ray as compared to other solid performers like .308 WCF or 7mm/08. 120 grain bullets at 2900 fps - kind of a .243 on steroids. I have two 6.5 Remington Magnums that will best it by at least 150 fps, so I can honestly say I don't need it. Ditto the four .308s in my rack.
My only concern about all the new cartridges is that manufacturers of ammo and components already (or so the story goes) can't keep up with demand, and new cartridge offerings (again, theoretically) further dilute the availability of old-line/basic ammo AND components. Does this have anything to do with why I can't find primers for sale locally or why I haven't seen a box of . 30-06 ammo on a shelf in months? I honestly don't know. Nothing I can do about it anyway so I focus on the (more than adequate) stuff I already have and carry on. For those who feel or see a need for the new 7mm round, go for it.
I finally got sucked in to the 6.5 Creedmore craze a couple years ago. The first one, a Savage, I wound up giving to my son. The second one, a Bergara, I'm probably going to give to my grandson. Great cartridge, but I'm looking at it from a hunter's perspective not as a long range shooter. As a hunting cartridge, it's fine but certainly no death ray as compared to other solid performers like .308 WCF or 7mm/08. 120 grain bullets at 2900 fps - kind of a .243 on steroids. I have two 6.5 Remington Magnums that will best it by at least 150 fps, so I can honestly say I don't need it. Ditto the four .308s in my rack.
My only concern about all the new cartridges is that manufacturers of ammo and components already (or so the story goes) can't keep up with demand, and new cartridge offerings (again, theoretically) further dilute the availability of old-line/basic ammo AND components. Does this have anything to do with why I can't find primers for sale locally or why I haven't seen a box of . 30-06 ammo on a shelf in months? I honestly don't know. Nothing I can do about it anyway so I focus on the (more than adequate) stuff I already have and carry on. For those who feel or see a need for the new 7mm round, go for it.
bobbill
Bearcat
6.5 Gremdel?/???Save brass,,,ranges losing due to Biden overts.....
Hunters are looking for 3-4" where match shooters are looking for.003-.004"
My wish is that the ammo manufacturers quit focusing on new cartridges and focus on meeting the demand for primers from the hand loader market. The reason I point out the "hand loader" is it seems the cottage industry 06 FFLs can get all the primers they need.
From hunting small game and varmits up to bear, it's easy to build a case for using only two or three older cartridges and be done with it for generations. For competitive shooting, you can build the same argument depending on the range (100, 600, 1000+ yards) that would all need something specialized that would not lend itself to a hunting rig. It's like apples and oranges.
kcsteve
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 209
The 30SC is nothing more than a 32ACP +P, more or less. The 32ACP has gotten such a low review in the last 20 years or so, they had to call the new rage something other than a 32.
The new rifle cartridges, 7mm, 6.8 whatevers are just a new take on the old 270 Win. They tinker with the overall length, bullet weight and spin rate and call it something new.
The new rifle cartridges, 7mm, 6.8 whatevers are just a new take on the old 270 Win. They tinker with the overall length, bullet weight and spin rate and call it something new.
I'm not trading in my .357 Mag Colt King Cobra for a .32-20 anytime soon, even if I could get a higher capacity cylinder, with a higher velocity cartridge. Speed does not always equate to effective terminal effect on a target.
Heavy loaded .308 Win, and .30-06 are the tipping point of what level of recoil I personally can handle. I can't even imagine being able to tolerate the muzzle blast and recoil of some of these modern whiz-bang artillery rounds.
I am very happy with my Ruger American launching 130 gr. Projectiles in .270 Win. It is my "perfect", in regards to accuracy vs. recoil and effectiveness. It would be my last rifle to offload if I ever had to. I will be passing this one down to one of my son's.
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