Alliant 20/28 in handguns??

[GP100man]

I`ve found a few instances in my research , but was wondering if anyone has used any on this board ???

My "internet research" shows it to be close to UNIQUE , but an e-mail to Alliant brought back a "No avaiable data" answer .

I feel if it`s a shotgun powder it can be used as handgun powder , following tradition in the footsteps of unique,reddot,green dot & many others.

I`m lookin for 357 mag "mid" loadings & maybe the same in 44mag. I`ll be useing lead boolits in the GP100 & the Redhawk. I have an idea of the performance/burn rate wise , but lookin for specifics, boolit weight ,primer, grains used & FPS over the chrony.

If ya don`t wanna share your results in open forum I understand ,as I said there`s no published data for 20/28.

Then please feel free to PM me, results or thoughts ??

BTW my local GS has 2 8# containers at $169 each I`ve had to look at each time I walked in the store.

A link to Hodgdon`s burn chart: http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html


TIA GP100man

 

[sandman228]

I read on another forum where a guy loaded it for 45 lc using data for unique with identical results using a chrono. im thinking of picking some up myself just to try . but don't hold me to it use at own risk

 

[Jimbo357mag]

If it is a new powder I bet it won't be too long before you see data published for it. You know how thorough the manufactures have to be these days before they release anything.

 

[Rclark]

Yes, you can use it just like Unique as far as my testing went.... Here is my thread on it in the 'other' ruger forum (.45 Colt, .44Mag, .44Spec, and .357 data) :

20/28 load data

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[GP100man]

Perfect Rclark & a BIG Thank You !!!

I know what it takes to "wring out" a powder/boolit combo , it can turn into work very easily !!

There`s 2 8# jugs just sitting in the shotgun section , the price puts it at `bout 23 bucks a pound !!

It`ll be coming home shortly !!

I`ll have to say it chronoed alot closer to unique than I thought it would !!

Again Thanks !!

GP

 

[308 Scout]

Here's a thread I started in which I list a few loads with 20/28 vs. Unique: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...rnatives-to-quot-Standard-quot-Pistol-Powders

Or, here's the data:

Next was some testing with my 5 ¾" Blackhawk Flat Top .44 Special. In it I tested 20/28 alongside Unique. As I suspected, and much to my satisfaction, the 20/28 is very similar to Unique in its burning rate, but is slightly smaller flakes which seems to meter somewhat more easily.

Powder........Charge............Bullet............ ..Velocity......... Extreme Spread

20/28________ 6.5______260 gr. SWC (a)_____892__________Unknown (2.7% vel. difference)
Unique________6.5______260 gr. SWC (a)_____868__________Unknown

20/28_________7.5______260 gr. SWC (a)_____981____________24 (2.5% vel. difference)
Unique________7.5______260 gr. SWC (a)_____957____________20

20/28_________6.5______260 gr. SWC (b)_____863____________28 (3% vel. difference)
Unique________6.5______260 gr. SWC (b)_____837____________44

20/28_________7.5______260 gr. SWC (b)_____946____________30 (3% vel. difference)
Unique________7.5______260 gr. SWC (b)_____919____________57

20/28_________8.0______260 gr. SWC (b)_____994____________58 (2.7% vel. difference)
Unique________8.0______260 gr. SWC (b)_____967_____________25

Bullets: (a)- NOE 429421 .430" ACWW; (b) RCBS 44-250KT .430" ACWW Both lubed with Ceresin Scarlet
The last test was with one bullet and load in my Colt Gov't Model, Series 70 45 ACP. The bullet was from a SAECO #130 mould, of ACWW. Weighed 200 grs., sized ,.452", and lubed with a homemade soft lube.

Powder.........Charge............ Bullet.......... Velocity.......Extreme Spread

20/28_________6.5_______200 gr. SWC_____1020____________46 (VERY accurate load) (1.1% vel. difference)
Unique________6.5_______200 gr. SWC_____1009____________45

All loads were chronographed with a CED Millennium 2. Temp. 54° F


I also tested it side by side to Unique in the .357 although I didn't publish the data, and it's again virtually identical.

I did try one load in the 45 Colt vs. Unique and it provided MUCH higher velocities, so I haven't pursued it any further yet.

I've bet I've burned 2 lbs of this stuff in the last year. Love it.

 

[Rclark]

I did try one load in the 45 Colt vs. Unique and it provided MUCH higher velocities

Check out my data above. I didn't find it so.

 

[GP100man]

Rclark , I bet 20/28 being a smaller/thinner flake makes it go "spikey" when under higher pressures ,or that`s my exp. with flake powders . They reach a point then take off !!!

308 Scout , I found your thread & I Thank You also !!
Your thread is what promted me to post the question here to reach out futher, even though I know alot of members are on other forums .

Again Thanks !!!

GP

 

[Rclark]

Well, I did test up to 10g in .44 Mag and never noticed any 'difference'. Sounded and felt normal to me. This is as high of 'pressure' as I go with Unique, so it is as far as I took it with 20/28 as well. Note the similar velocities (1157fps vs. 1136fps). In .45 Colt I took it up to 9.0g and again very similar (1041fps vs 1021fps).

 

[GP100man]

Update :

No fancy spread sheet like 308Scout or Rclark, but here`s the particulars :

357 magnum R-P cases trimmed to 1.288"
WW sp primers
Boolit : NOE 358429 sized to .3585" 175.5gr.
GP100 Blued 4"

Reviewed Unique data , but the powder looked closer to WW231/ HP-38 sized flakes , heavy grey (graphite,control coating ??) flows in the Lee Auto Disc good +- only 1/10th gr.

Started with 5.5gr but this smoked cases more than I liked (maybe tired brass) upped it in 1/10th gr increments to 6gr. , good clean burn ,low flash, decided to run a few of these over the chrony , 10 averaged 1,001 fps Good controllable hard hitting round !! cases would fall from the cyl. absolutely no leading .

Went up in 2/10th gr increments to 7gr & ran a batch over the chrony for an average of 1,161 fps a bit perkier round than the 6 gr. load very slight strippin of lead though no smearing (alloy giving up ,11 bhn) the cases were`nt fallin out but would with the slightest touch on the ejector.

Assesment at this point :

Clean burning
Flows well in measures
A notch faster than unique, I think someone mentioned close to ww231 , I agree
I have`nt shot it in low lite , but did`nt see any fire from shooting in the shade.
Not very case filling, the 7gr. load probably used 60% of the avalible space under the NOE boolit

I did`nt bench the gun for groups but plan on seeing what they do out of the same GP very shortly.
Did shoot a cyl full at my 10" plate from 25yds & hit it 5 out of 6 so can`t be too far to the bad side of things.

Anyways it`s thumbs up so far for Alliants 20/28 in the 357 magnum & lead boolits.

Just a reminder : there is absolutely NO DATA for handgun use of Alliant 20/28 YET.

GP100man

 

[sandman228]

I picked up 2 lb over the weekend .the shop I went into had all kinds of rifle powder but absolutely no pistol/shotgun powder other than 3 lb of 20/28 for 21$ a lb .i snagged 2 of them and turned another reloader onto the info ive learned on here and another forum and left him grab the other . I haven't tried it yet I plan on trying some in either 45 lc or 357 mag. if worse comes to worse theres 12 gauge data for this powder on alliants web sight i'll just use it for that.

 

[Rclark]

Sounds good GP100man. I liked the 6.0g load under 158g SWC as well. You'll note in my comments, I didn't care for the 5.5g load either.

Sandman228, I think you'll find you'll be using it for your revolver loads. Let us know how your testing comes out though. More observations the better.

 

[Outlaws21]

I've been using 20/28 for my 9mm loads for a little over a year in both 124gr and 147gr. Both loads together would add up to around 4-4.5K. I also load a little 115gr RNFMJ with it, and it is also very good in those loads. I just don't care for 115gr, so I've only loaded approx. 500 of those.

I used to use Unique or W231 in the same loads, but when it became impossible to find any "usual suspect" powder locally I checked the burn rate charts and was happy to find 20/28 was very similar to Unique and W231. 20/28 is always on the local shelves, so I've been lucky in that regard. I did start low and work up, but have been most happy using the same load data I was using with Unique. Accuracy and POI is nearly the same, way more accurate than I am. It is barely faster on the chrono, but not by much. BTW, my 9mm are a full size M&P, a full size Tanfoglio, G17, and a Taurus 92.

I spoke with Ben at Alliant and he said they did think about publishing pistol data for 20/28 but it showed potential pressure issues in low/high temps. So take that warning to heart before deciding to use 20/28 in your metallic cartridges.

 

[308 Scout]

I did try one load in the 45 Colt vs. Unique and it provided MUCH higher velocities

Check out my data above. I didn't find it so.

Not refuting your results at all. I just got some unexpectedly high velocities relative to the same charge of Unique, and decided to shelve the project/powder with the 45 Colt until later.

 

[GP100man]

Well ,I`ve been in the books researching UNIQUE loads for the calibers I shoot & have working loads , I ran a battery down in the chrony though.

The list so far is :

38 spc.
357 mag (mid loads)
40 S&W
380acp

All lead here.The 2 autos fall rite in line as far as fps go & not flinging brass no more than factory & no pressure signs .

I`m not gonna post any of the loads ,except that I started 5% below unique`s start loads.
So far it goes thru all the measures I`ve used flawlessly (better than unique ever thought of)
As many powders do ,it has a range that it burns very clean , & low smoke.

I loaded some wadcutter loads but rain/battery stopped the shooting for this wknd.
But it`s been a fun & informative wknd .

I LOVE it when a plan comes together!!!



GP

 

[Rclark]

Sounds like it is working out for you too.

I always have a couple spare batteries in the chronograph bag just for this reason! Ran down a few myself.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Excellent dope guys. If I spy some I'm gonna give it a whirl too..

 

[mr surveyor]

Excellent dope guys. If I spy some I'm gonna give it a whirl too..

I actually went looking for it last week even though there was plenty of Unique on the shelf. None available around here

 

[308 Scout]

Excellent dope guys. If I spy some I'm gonna give it a whirl too..

I actually went looking for it last week even though there was plenty of Unique on the shelf. None available around here

Where in Texas did you find plenty of Unique on the shelf? I wouldn't mind having a few pounds.

 

[mr surveyor]

Excellent dope guys. If I spy some I'm gonna give it a whirl too..

I actually went looking for it last week even though there was plenty of Unique on the shelf. None available around here

Where in Texas did you find plenty of Unique on the shelf? I wouldn't mind having a few pounds.

at "Jack O' Pawns" in Longview. A bit pricey at $30-35/lb, but it's on the shelf. They seem to have a pretty good variety of IMR/Hodgdon and Aliant powders, but can't seem to get Accurate powders. Also looked like they had a pretty good supply of primers. My son bought a couple cans of powder and some .357 bullets, but I had just spent my month or two of fun money ordering a couple thousand cast bullets. They seem to imply that they weren't having any trouble with stocking the powders on their shelf.

JD