Active Shooter Scenario & Your 'Mind Set'

[blume357]

Because I'm on my church's Safety Committee I have attended several seminars over the past month on active shooters along with church and school safety.

One of the most important things I've learned is that most people are not prepared for when chaos enters their environment. If someone walks in a room and starts shooting... everyone's first response will be panic... but a second later is what changes.... the difference is those that have previously decided they will survive in this situation and those that have not ever thought about it... yes, it is really that simple.

One of the surveyors of the Virginia Tech shooting explains that when the shooter came in the room and started walking up and down the isle shooting the students... she sat there and waited her turn. (she was shot four times and lived) This is what folks do, they don't react. On Monday I listened to an interview with one of the teachers from the Parkland shooting. She was actually trying to play on folks emotions about this evil assault rifle the shooter carried as he walked in her class room and shot two teenagers that she names as 'she and her other students cowered in the corner' I'm not making this up, that is exactly what she said: as she and her students cowered in the corner. I really have a hard time wrapping my head around this.

This is actually why I'm writing this post. I'm doing my best not to judge this woman, she has gone through a terrible experience and I have to recognize that most people are not prepared for evil to walk in the room they are in.... We need to recognize that most people are not going to fight.....

 

[GunnyGene]

Herd instinct. Watch some of those wildlife video's of what a herd does when a lion or other predator is looking for lunch. They all bunch up with a couple of bulls facing off with the predator. Safety in numbers. People are no different. So you're one of the bulls, huh.

 

[gramps]

You are either Predator or Prey. As a Deputy Sheriff I asked one of the inmates how I was thought of by the inmates predator or prey? Prey he said laughing, but a buffalo! My personality profile shows me to be a Rescuer. It makes sense, since I have been in the medical field 48 years, fireman, Deputy Sheriff etc.
gramps

 

[Dan in MI]

The company I work for had training for this. It was all hide and be quiet BS. BUT they did refer us to the .GOV's video. I watched the video. Near the end they have a bunch of people in a room trying to barricade a door as the shooter is trying to get in. (last resort they said) One guy is standing near the door with a fire extinguisher ready to bash the shooter in the head. My first thought was hey doofus spray that crap in his face. Don't let him get so close. If you've ever dealt with dry chem you know what I am talking about.

This also lit a little fire in my mind. We had stacks of small fire extinguishers being thrown out (due to another asinine change company rules) I grabbed two and went out back. Tested their distance and aiming qualities. I now have at least three near my desk at all times.

 

[JFB]

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

 

[Mobuck]

My "life experiences" have been so far different from those of the "snow flake" generation that I can't really understand their mentality. When questionable scenarios pop up, I'm already thinking of responses and laying down is never one of the options. When caught at a disadvantage, mind set is EVERYTHING.
Here's a recent instance that even though it turned out to be a false alarm, it showed how some are just hardwired to activate the response mode: Tom and I were returning home from our north farm. As we approached a neighbor's "tiny house", smoke was billowing and it appeared the house was on fire. Tom punched the gas to get us on site ASAP and fortunately, the smoke came from a poorly located trash fire.
After finding this, Tom commented that he had his phone out to call 911 but hadn't punched send yet. I reminded him that wouldn't have saved the folks in the house but I'd made an inventory of what protection my clothing would provide when I entered the house-- neckerchief, Carhart canvas cap/coat/fire resistant overalls, heavy cotton gloves(all slightly damp from the ongoing rain drizzle), and thick insulated boots. The ice axe(for breaching the door) was within reach as soon as I stepped out of the vehicle.
I'm sure this is not the recommended procedure but had those folks been asleep or unconscious with the structure on fire, waiting the 30 minutes for emergency response would had assured their demise. I've never been one to stand around watching a disaster if there was ANY chance my input would avert or reduce the damage.


"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
Some of my co-workers already find my "gung-ho" attitude unsettling. If I had a T-shirt with that comment, they might wet themselves.

 

[contender]

It's a proven fact in combat, that soldiers sometimes freeze when they come under fire for the first time. And, sadly, some die because if that.
Mindset.
It takes a lot of conscious thought to prevent a freeze up in such things. And that thought has to be done prior to being in that situation. OR,, a person who spends their life reacting to sudden issues where it can be life threatening, or potentially harmful, to themselves or others have often already got the mindset. (Such as policemen, firemen, EMT's, etc.)
As a person who never challenges themselves in activities where they are faced with sudden, fast acting issues, are often complacent. Even a kayaker who challenges a serious whitewater for the first time, or the mountain climber who struggles with a hard climb etc is learning to react, with their knowledge & training w/o cowering & quitting.
The school environment is not a place where the adults are challenged as such.

And, to go further, as people, we should challenge ourselves & teach ourselves to be prepared for the worse, and to react instead of being submissive.
Example; We often see folks who had a tornado suddenly touch down & destroy things. They say, "we were not prepared or other such stuff. Yet, the folks who were prepared had a plan, and reacted when the first warning signs appeared.

The same can be said on how to deal with an active shooter. If we, as legal, law abiding citizens, especially those of us with CCW, get a mental mindset on what we will do, AND prepare for it by regular training, we can be the sheepdog, not the sheep.
Back in 1998, if someone had asked me if I could handle myself with a handgun, I would not have hesitated. I'd been deer hunting with a handgun since the early 1980's, and had taken many deer. I had built a home range, did a lot of shooting, and was confident in my abilities. UNTIL,,, I went to a USPSA competition & tried to think, shoot, make hits, all under the stress of a timer. I found out how good I was NOT!!!!!!! I was not as prepared as I'd THOUGHT I was. So, I decided back then I was going to "Shoot the gun I carried, & carry the gun I would shoot." I wanted to get muscle memory friendly with my handgun to where I did not have to consciously think about making it operate, how to deal with a jam, how to reload under stress, how many shots I'd fired, etc. I wanted to be as familiar with a handgun for SD as I was in driving my truck.
And as a former soldier, I came to grips many years ago, that if necessary, I could take a life.
So, my mindset was set & trained.

And I am also a realist, who knows that no matter how good I may be, I can also fail, and be killed by a determined active shooter. But I am sure of my mindset in that I know it will be while attempting to stop the active shooter, not cowering in a corner.
I'm an Eagle Scout, Be Prepared.

 

[rugerguy]

blume, you are spot, on, it is a matter of "mind set".......I made comment as to this on another post in regards to possibly putting a bucket of rocks in various class rooms, to use instead of trying to throw a pen or a pencil, or a book...BUT it all still boils down to having the proper "mind set", to be able to act, ( react) when danger approaches........and living here in Chardon, Ohio and having our school go through our "shooting" and many of my friends, and neighbors having children around us, to make sure they have some sort of "what to do" and in this day and age it is all around us, the malls, the streets, and even standing inline at a store or a bank....BE prepared...........and this is going on with the various trainings, scenarios, and falls under the "distraction"...distraction hell, David killed Goliath with a stone 8) :roll: :wink:

 

[pisgah]

...distraction hell, David killed Goliath with a stone 8) :roll: :wink:

Actually, he knocked Goliath out cold with the stone, then killed him with Goliath's own gigantic sword. (This, keep in mind, after the prior experience of killing both a bear and a lion with bare hands! Dave was a bada$$!)

But this brings up another point. Don't let your mindset become gun-dependent. There are places in most states where a licensed gun carrier cannot legally take his gun. Be prepared to use anything -- stone, chair, fire extinguisher, sharpened pencil (my personal favorite on airliners) -- even bare hands to overcome/disarm the assailant. The key is, first and foremost, the preparation, readiness and willingness to FIGHT.

 

[Fox Mike]

Given an emergency situation people react differently. When a tornado struck the area where I was living outside Ft Rucker my roommate and I immediately went outside and accessed the situation. Most everyone in the trailer park were military. Another sergeant and a captain organized a house to house search party. My roommate, another captain and I went for help near the main highway. Others went around turning off propane tanks. There was no previous 'plan' other than training that teaches to access the situation and do something' when a situation dictates it.

 

[bogus bill]

I haven't read all the posts yet but here is what I experienced at twelve years old. It was on my first deer hunt with my dad in Wisconsin, 1953. It was the last hour of the last day of the season. I had a single barrel 20 gauge with just one slug. Dad had placed me on the edge of a marsh in a willow thicket just over the legal 100 yards from the secondary road. I seen a guy walking back to his car. He stopped, shaded his eyes and was looking straight at me. I was crouching or sitting down on a log or whatever with willows or brush screening me. Then he raised his rifle and shot at me. I heard the bullet whip past my head. I froze. He had a lever action, probably Winchester 94 or Marlin and kept shooting until he ran out of the six or seven rounds! I heard every bullet whip around me. At first I thought he must be shooting at a deer behind me but didn't see one. With the first or second round I just couldn't believe it was me he was shooting at. When he clicked on empty I stood up in plain sight. The man sprinted to his car, threw his gun in without casing it, a big no-no law. He scratched out and raced off.
I was young and inexperienced. Dad wasn't close. I thought I think, about shooting back so he would know I was a person and not a deer as I should have (in the air) but didn't. Ashamed to say it but I simply froze.
I had a few other bad incidents through the years after that, but that time I am sure God protected me. When you are a twelve year old I think we must think adults know what they are doing and we must be wrong or whatever.

 

[dreamer]

Granddaughter and her fiance got me a t-shirt with the "Mad Dog" quote on it,
from Mission Ready Gunworks in KC

 

[Don Lovel]

I think the last thing an active shooter nut job expects is for someone to bring the fight to them, good use of cover, quick approach, deadly fire and lots of rounds until they are totally incapacitated without a doubt.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

Blume there is a reason they call it muscle memory. It's what they practice. At liberal schools which at least 95% are, they are taught not to fight back and to hide. It translates through out our life. As the Security guy at your church, it will be the same thing. People are taught to be sheep unless the pastor tells them what to do. He needs to flat out say on a regular basis, we never expect this to happen BUT IF IT DOES, what we want you to do is hit the deck and stay there. If that sounds like the same thing you said about school it isn't. The difference is that you will have yourself and other people (sheepdogs) returning fire. Big difference here. I can't think of anything worse than having your sights trained on an active shooter and having someone between you and the shooter, jump up to run as you squeeze the trigger. That is the reason they need to be directed what to do. Doesn't mean someone won't do the wrong thing but the fewer heads that are sticking up the fewer targets they make, and the more open field you have to deal with what's going on. Other security people need to be covering different fields to determine that other people aren't aren't also coming in to shoot. Probably there will only be one shooter but expect more and be prepared for more. Our sanctuary was not designed at all for security. There are 8 different egress accesses. That is ridiculous after you deal with your active shooter all your security folks need to go through appropriate egress access and check on kids, students, sunday schools etc to make sure there are no other active shooters and then move to the next layer of building to the outside. Be careful there as well. They expect people to jump up and run and become more targets. People need to be instructed what to do. They need to stay on the ground until they are released by the minister and there needs to be an organized plan to get them out. Hopefully there are police at that point that are at the church and making sure the perimeter is clear so people can leave. Good luck.

 

[Ka6otm]

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

My attitude exactly.

 

[BearBio]

AS a combat-trained vet, a former Safety Officer who helped design Active Shooter training for several Federal Agencies in our building and has attended numerous Active Shooter Training classes, all I can say is " LOL".

I wanna stay alive, not prove how big I can talk==just be able to talk afterwards.

I do agree with the fire extinguisher comment. As Safety Officer, I could certify our staff to have bear spray in the field. Several keep bear spray at their desk (myself included). Of course, they are not AUTHORIZED to use it on a human.............;-)

BTW: We did have an armed intruder scenario occur and my biologist did what he should...called the Sheriffs.

 

[Taterman]

Great thread guys.

 

[GP100]

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

This is my feeling as well..

In this world, there are two types of people.. You are either a Predator, or you are Prey.. I look at everybody like I'm looking at a deer..

A Predator knows another Predator.. We sense it.. I don't sense it in most people nowadays.. I sense nothing but prey in most people I meet today..

If you don't have it in you to defend yourself and kill when needed, you are Prey.. Predators? We have no problem killing if we must.

Someone who crouches in a corner and tries to hide, is the herd mentality.. Your lunch.. And I'm coming for you first.. Because you've already proven your the weakest of the herd and won't put up much of a challenge or fight..

That's how the Predator thinks and works.. You separate the weakest of the herd and concentrate on them.. That's your target..

You don't waste energy going after the harder targets.. It's not efficient..

One of the reasons I survived the mean streets of NY as a kid, was because I had no fear.. Death had no power over me.. I was able to win a fight with a bigger kid or adult because they had one thing I didn't.. Fear of death.. Self preservation instinct that kicked in on them.. Even Predators will back down when faced with a superior Predator that is willing to go the distance.. They just wanted to fight.. I was willing to kill.. And they could see it in my eyes..

You'll be surprised what you can do when you don't give a damn..

These kids today are being taught how to be lambs.. Lead to the slaughter.. Prey.. They stand zero chance against a Predator like that..

Until they are taught to survive by fighting back, they will be lunch for the Apex Predators in this world.. And that's a fact.. These schools are not doing these kids any favors by what they are teaching them today.. They are not preparing them for the real world.. The world they live in is a sugar coated topping.. Where unicorns fart rainbows.. But there is a layer underneath, that they have no clue how to deal with..

A "pacifist" doesn't survive long in the wild.. It's a jungle out there folks.. Watch your six.. Because chances are, if your not watching it, a Predator is..

 

[Don Lovel]

Granddaughter and her fiance got me a t-shirt with the "Mad Dog" quote on it,
from Mission Ready Gunworks in KC

Owner and gunsmith of Mission Ready are long time friends of mine and damn good guys, gunsmith is Herb Sr. high quality man on every level

 

[Colonialgirl]

AS a combat-trained vet, a former Safety Officer who helped design Active Shooter training for several Federal Agencies in our building and has attended numerous Active Shooter Training classes, all I can say is " LOL".

I wanna stay alive, not prove how big I can talk==just be able to talk afterwards.

I do agree with the fire extinguisher comment. As Safety Officer, I could certify our staff to have bear spray in the field. Several keep bear spray at their desk (myself included). Of course, they are not AUTHORIZED to use it on a human.............;-)

BTW: We did have an armed intruder scenario occur and my biologist did what he should...called the Sheriffs.

And they appeared 30 minutes later !!