A NC town attacking shooting activities

[contender]

Lt92,, you get the point of my posting.

Sadly,,, this one gun range owner has such a deep selfish attitude,, that it has caused the County to look at ways to legally shut him down. The current laws do not allow it.
But the way the county commissioners approached it is also too far the other direction. they put wording in the proposed ordinance that affects all shooting except under the exemptions that they can not make a law against due to state laws.

But again,, my posting this is about how we, as shooters can be viewed by others, and how those who are trying to fix things w/o a real education about shooting. We are gun owners & shooting enthusiasts, who should always try to present ourselves in a very good manner, and be good neighbors, safe & responsible shooters. That way, we attract the middle of the road people to our enjoyment,, instead of creating a very negative attitude against the shooting sports.

One person,, just one person,,, has done a lot of serious harm to those who live in or around Alamance County who do enjoy shooting. ONE person.
That's why I wanted people to look at this & understand that we all can be ambassadors to the rest of the people around us when it comes to shooting.
We talk about getting people to the range who are not gun owners or shooters. We talk about wanting more people to support the fact we just enjoy shooting. We want people to understand we are not the "backwoods, knuckle dragging neanderthals" that we have been portrayed as by many.

ONE person,, has done a lot of harm.

Now,, we as good, safe responsible gun owners will have to work a lot harder to change minds about us. This is my desire for the people here who read about this.

OMCHamlin,, you are correct in that there are people who will hate guns & gun owners no matter what. And you are correct that we can not change their minds.
BUT,,,,,,,,, we CAN change the minds of many who are middle of the road,, or haven't fallen too far away from the idea of freedom & gun owners or shooters. This is where we should go "out of our way" to try & get them on our side & not alienate them. This ONE guy is driving some away from us,, and THAT"S why I want people to look at this & understand that we ALL can do a lot to help others maybe decide gun owners are not bad people.
BTW; It has NOTHING to do with sex, gender or whatever.

As Sam has mentioned,, that ONE person is so far away from being a GOOD person,, because of his "I have my rights" attitude, WITHOUT regards to how it affects others.

 

[Hvymax]

Hopefully this numbnuts can be used into bankruptcy. It's like talking to "Sovereign Citizens"!!!

 

[Slyk Willy]

Our Conservation Club had an adjacent pistol range that bordered on the property of a hater. He would ride his quad to the property edge whenever he heard shots and either sit there and glare at the shooter or otherwise create a scene by shaking tree limbs and shouting. As much as we hated to "give in" to his attitude, we choose to move the pistol range away to the other side of our property closer to the rifle range.
We termed this range change of location as a good neighbor change. I'm not sure if he still visits the old range, but we don't have to look at him.

 

[contender]

Ranger,, there are lawsuits being put forth.

The County has a few great, well known & used safe gun ranges. Sam & I were at one of them Sunday. (The Durham Pistol & Rifle Club.) I have zero knowledge of how each County Commissioner feels. But the ONE bad actor from what I understand owns the property. He also apparently has zero respect for his neighbors. There is documentation of rounds that have left his small parcel of property. I'm SURE that will be used to help shut him down or cost him big bucks.

But again,, it's NOT about the politics,, my posting is to TRY hard to get people to realize that we are ALL ambassadors for the shooting sports.

Think of it like this;

You are in a public place,, such as a restaurant. While you may be a great person, and respect others,, you are able to overhear a conversation by people at a table next to you. If they are talking about a subject that you may not be well educated in,, you may listen & allow their conversation to affect YOUR thoughts or feelings on that subject. Now imagine that the people you can overhear are loud enough to where several people nearby can hear what's being said. Some find it objectionable, others don't care, and others get very offended. But that one conversation has created a lot of different reactions. And let's say another person politely asks the ones talking loudly,,, to maybe tone it down,, or possibly change the content of their conversation,, (maybe the conversation is of an adult nature,, and there are kids around.) And the ones talking get stubborn, tell the polite person to leave them alone as they have their RIGHT to talk about whatever.

We as gun owners are the ones "conversing." We need to always try & be respectful of others & try & be a POSITIVE point for others.

I own a gun range.
I don't allow Sunday shooting before 1:00 pm. I try & not do things there that negatively affect my neighbors. If they come to me & express a concern,,, I'm going to try & figure out something that we both can agree upon. But if I get angry, or tell them to mind their own business that I have my rights, or whatever,, I will create a negative attitude by them against gun owners & shooting.

 

[Hvymax]

Exactly. I shoot on my property as well. I am also personally responsible for every round fired on my property!!!

 

[Sam Summey]

Maybe the County isn't antigun. Maybe they just need guidance on what should be minimum requirements for a safe gun range that wouldn't impact any except ones that are truly unsafe. I realize that is a slippery slope; but...

Another tract might be to have neighbors document rounds leaving range, the danger it poses, and sue to shut it down or restrict it to shot shells only or something. That might be more effective.

If he is renting it out, bad publicity about it being unsafe and shooters using it exposing themselves to great liabilty for errant rounds. That might "help" resolve the situation.

All that said, I've known a few people who would have had a "friendly" discussion with him to effect that for every errant round leaving the range, there'll be two aimed ones entering it. Some people learn harder than others. Many years ago when fur prices were high, there was a guy who traveled a wide area spotlighting, taking animals from traps, and poaching deer. Conservation officers never caught him; but he stopped. He stopped when he learned that a group of sportsman had collected and put up a several thousand dollar bounty for anyone that caught him out doing it and "stopped" him. Haven't heard about him since. FWIW: His preferred gun for deer was a .17 rem and head shots. Conservation officers had gotten close enough to catching him that they recovered some of the deer.

Minimum height of the back stop? The farther away the firing line is the higher the backstop. I once "inspected" a private range outside of Burlington NC. The range was to be 1000 yards, the impact berm was at least 50 feet high and at least 1 1/2 times as wide as the firing line. From the 1000 yard firing line, that berm looked small. My gun club has a 300 yard rifle range, the impact backstop is cut into the side of a mountain, the cut is 37 feet high and the rest of the mountain is covered in trees. The club "fathers" still worry about rounds leaving the range due to mini horse farms springing up around us. Asheville Rifle and Pistol Club got encroached by the "urban sprawl" of Asheville, they are surrounded by houses. To shoot a rifle, the standing position is only allowed or sitting at a bench, no prone or sitting on the ground. Baffles were installed so no "blue sky" is observed from the firing line on the range. The club has an "elite" group of "gestapo like" range safety officers who enforce the "range rules". Only round target images are allowed, nothing with a humanoid shape is allowed.

 

[Gopher]

Exactly. I shoot on my property as well. I am also personally responsible for every round fired on my property!!!

Same here but I have had to take my range down. There are three new housing developments down range over a half mile away but I took it down for safety's sake.
Our county lost it's only open range about 20 years ago over the same thing. There were houses being struck over a mile away and livestock being wounded and killed so the DA finally shut the range down. If the berm had been raised 10ft it might have made a difference but the owner was tired of fighting the DA over it.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I'm surprised anyone thinks 2-1/5 acres is enough property for any sort of safe shooting range. When I did my calculation for safe backstop distance, it was about 300 yards for bird shot, 1/2 mile for pistol, and "better have a hill as a backstop" for rifle.

It is amazing how people's opinion of what is safe changes depending on what is behind or beyond their back stop. How many people put their shooting bench on the edge of their property line and shoot toward THEIR OWN HOUSE? If it is safe enough to shoot toward MY property, yu can turn it around and shoot toward your OWN house just as easy.

 

[Chief]

What are the regulations being considered? I understand that they are attempting to regulate shooting ranges and applying those regulations to anything that can be construed as a range but just what are the particulars of the regulations?

 

[larry8]

I like the shooting range that Hickock 45 has. It seems to have a suitable backstop.

 

[contender]

Chief,,, if you wish to view the entire ordinance,, you should be able to look it up on the Alamance County NC website.

I do not want to post all of the ordinance,, as it could easily go political. NOT my intent.

I want people to realize that ALL of us should strive to be good neighbors & respect others who are not shooters. If so,, we can often get the "fence sitters" on our side a LOT easier.

 

[Chief]

Chief,,, if you wish to view the entire ordinance,, you should be able to look it up on the Alamance County NC website.

I do not want to post all of the ordinance,, as it could easily go political. NOT my intent.

I want people to realize that ALL of us should strive to be good neighbors & respect others who are not shooters. If so,, we can often get the "fence sitters" on our side a LOT easier.

Fair enough, your post.

 

[blume357]

I know it's just shameless promotion, but anyone here if they can manage it needs to visit Contender's range.. specifically at the East Coast Gathering.... it is one of the highlights of my year.

 

[Sam Summey]

I know it's just shameless promotion, but anyone here if they can manage it needs to visit Contender's range.. specifically at the East Coast Gathering.... it is one of the highlights of my year.

Would you say, "adequate but not ostentatious"?

 

[454Redhawk]

First off,, this is a post that could easily become political. LET'S NOT LET IT GO THAT DIRECTION.

On Jan 20,, I got word that the Alamance County NC commissioners were going to have a meeting to set up a shooting range ordinance. The meeting was to take place on 1/21/25.
I was leaving for SHOT that afternoon,, but I sent a polite email to all the commissioners about what I saw in the proposed ordinance. Basically, the wording was Unconstitutional, and would set them up for lawsuits.
The meeting of 1/22/25 was postponed due to weather.
They rescheduled the meeting for 1/27/25.

At that meeting,, the word had gotten out about it, and they tabled the proposed ordinance until a better study could be done,, as well as allowing a re-writing of the ordinance.

Here's the wording of the original ordinance;
"Definitions;
(1) Shooting Ranges.
Any area, location, or facility designed or used for the discharge of firearms for practice, recreation, competition, or training, whether formal or informal, and regardless of whether it is owned or operated commercially or non-commercially."

And in the section; "Applicability
This ordinance applies to all shooting ranges located within the unincorporated areas of Alamance County. Exemptions are provided for those activities which are exempted under N.C. Gen. Stat. ; 153A-129."

In short, EVERYWHERE in the County with some exceptions for LEO's, special permits, or self defense.

I share this because it's still an ongoing proposal. And it could happen anywhere.

But many may ask WHY they would even consider this. Well, apparently it's directly because of ONE 2-1/5 acre small range,,, owned by a very arrogant, and uncompromising person who bought an established skeet range. He turned it into a rifle & pistol range. AND NOW BULLETS ARE LEAVING THE RANGE ONTO AN ADJOINING PROPERTY OCCASIONALLY.

By NC laws,, the range is currently protected, and the owner says it's his Constitutional right & is not willing to try & be a good neighbor to his adjoining property owners.
The local Sheriff has been out there multiple times,, and the range is very narrowly within the laws.
There ARE lawsuits filed & others being prepared.

So DO NOT make this political. All legal avenues are being pursued.

My point to this thread AND why I wanted to put it in the Lounge,, is to inform members how we are often viewed by others. We need to be good ambassadors for the shooting sports. We need to be mindful of SAFETY all the time. It's obvious to many that this is a result of ONE bad actor,, and how it can affect everyone.

Luckily,, due to the very quick actions by other established shooting ranges, concerned citizens, a few organizations (such as the NC Rifle & Pistol Assoc) the original ordinance will be re-written.

But sadly,, we have a gun range owner who is making all of us look bad. This is why I wanted to share what's going on. AND with this,, it could very possibly happen in any state or local jurisdiction. All because of the actions of ONE bad actor & how they portray all of us.

So,, my thread here is to hopefully educate others who may not often think of how our actions may affect our neighbors, or anybody who sees or hears us shooting. I own a gun range,, and I work at being a good neighbor to all who are around me. When non-shooters find out I own a range,, I get questions sometimes. I work at being a good, positive influence about our shooting sports. And of course,, I'm ALWAYS mindful of the potential of a projectile leaving my range.

So,, when we all go shooting let's consider how we can be GOOD actors in a place where one small bad act could affect a lot of things.

AGAIN,, ANY DISCUSSION,, DO NOT MAKE IT POLITICAL PLEASE!

Our county commissioners, Pitt County, NC, are considering an ordinance that is pretty much the exact same wording. We showed up in force at the commission meeting and caused them to pause the ordinance for revisions. It was later tabled and is still under review. With the election of several new commissioners in November there is hope that it won't come back up. This is the second time in recent years that they have tried to slip it by but we have been watching and it payed off again. Be vigilant my friends because the Dems will continue to do what Dems do, violate our rights.

 

[contender]

454Redhawk, I had heard that Pitt County had tried this. I knew that it was tabled, so I didn't mention it.
Besides that would go against the reason for my post about all of us being good ambassadors for the community and not making this thread political.

 

[Gopher]

I like the shooting range that Hickock 45 has. It seems to have a suitable backstop.

I would love to see his backstop for both of his ranges. From the background noise at times he is close to a highway or road behind his bench.

Some counties in Texas have a 10-acre rule. You must have 10 acres before you can legally shoot on your own property.

 

[John in WYO]

"AND NOW BULLETS ARE LEAVING THE RANGE ONTO AN ADJOINING PROPERTY OCCASIONALLY." So says the people complaining about it….

1999/2000 or so I was living in NE Wyoming and there was a little gun-shop and range that had some neighbors make the same allegations to get the range shutdown.

IIRC, the sheriff's department reviewed the alleged bullet strike to the roof and determined the round had been fired upward by a person standing close to the house.

Which led some folks to believe it was the complaining homeowner….

Strange stuff happens….I have no clue what's going on in your county.

 

[John in WYO]

"You are in a public place,, such as a restaurant. While you may be a great person, and respect others,, you are able to overhear a conversation by people at a table next to you. If they are talking about a subject that you may not be well educated in,, you may listen & allow their conversation to affect YOUR thoughts or feelings on that subject. Now imagine that the people you can overhear are loud enough to where several people nearby can hear what's being said. Some find it objectionable, others don't care, and others get very offended. But that one conversation has created a lot of different reactions. And let's say another person politely asks the ones talking loudly,,, to maybe tone it down,, or possibly change the content of their conversation,, (maybe the conversation is of an adult nature,, and there are kids around.) And the ones talking get stubborn, tell the polite person to leave them alone as they have their RIGHT to talk about whatever.

We as gun owners are the ones "conversing." We need to always try & be respectful of others & try & be a POSITIVE point for others."


At the coffee shop I frequent several of us are hard of hearing. Sometimes folks around us talk SO LOUD that we can't hear the guys at our table.
Usually the other folks tone it down when asked.

But OCCASIONALLY a tourist or stranger gets on their phone or computer, some time Bluetooth and sometimes not and talk in a LOUD, OUTSIDE VOICE with no concern for folks around them….

THAT'S WHEN THEY GET THE WAR CHIEF!



FULL BLAST with an icy look from us old guys.

Works every time…they finish their call and leave.

If we can't hear the guys at our table, YOU ARE TOO LOUD!

 

[Cofaler]

Is this a private range for the owner and friends or does the public pay to shoot there? No responsible gun owner I know would shoot at a place like that if they had the facts you presented here. If the owner is in it for profit, and no one shoots there, then he might feel compelled to comply. As has been stated, 2.5 acres doesn't seem to be big enough to shoot much of anything on, unless one boundary is a steep and tall hill. It's too bad there are guys like that, I always found gun people to be among the most honest and polite people you could hope to meet. Clearly, there are exceptions.