9mm vs 40 S&W: Which Is Better?

[WAYNO]

I keep seeing repeated here that the .40 is hard on pistol frames. I've owned and shot many. I have yet to witness a problem on any .40-chambered pistol.

And I will continue to repeat my experience... The .40 is a superior round to the 9mm.

But if a person is convinced the 9mm is just as good, well, as long as you're convinced... Nothing else matters.

 

[the_leper_colony]

I keep seeing repeated here that the .40 is hard on pistol frames. I've owned and shot many. I have yet to witness a problem on any .40-chambered pistol.

And I will continue to repeat my experience... The .40 is a superior round to the 9mm.

But if a person is convinced the 9mm is just as good, well, as long as you're convinced... Nothing else matters.

I agree 100% - I've owned (IIRC) a dozen different 40 caliber pistols, all but one of which shared the frame with the same company's 9mm model, and never had any issues with accelerated wear or breakage. The only specific model that I've seen that occasionally had such issues was the Kel-Tec P40, and the ones I owned had no problems. But other folks (@bhp9 in post #27, for example) claim otherwise, and I'm not about to call anyone a liar, because who knows what a specific gun might look like after 100,000 rounds of hot factory loads, or whatever.

I like .40 & .357 (& .44, & .45, etc. ;^), but if other folks want to stick with .38s & 9s, more power to 'em!

 

[gnappi]

These urban myths are illogical.

If a .40 "short and weak" is so hard on pistols then why isn't the 10mm hard on frames in the same launching platforms? Note I said the SAME launching platform.

There's some truth though in some cases where a 9mm firearm was called upon to do double duty as a .40. If that's the case that is a bit of engineering expediency and stupidity not the fault of the caliber.

As it is there is one bit of evidence I know of where the 9mm was being adapted to .40 with poor results. Browning had frame cracking issues with early .40 forged frames and actually went to slightly heavier CAST frames to correct it! The cast frames can be ID'd by the stippling under the grip at the mag base.

 

[Mike J]

As far as whether or not .40 or 9mm is better I would say it depends on what the person that is purchasing the gun wants it for. I do believe .40 penetrates deeper & .40 caliber hollowpoints tend to be larger after expanding than 9mm ones.

I have owned 3 .40 caliber pistols. I still have a P94. I did a lot of learning with that pistol. I had a XD-40. I sold it after realizing that other guns worked better for me. It was accurate & reliable but there were other pistols I could shoot better with less effort. It was an ergonomics thing. I also have a S&W M&P 2.0 40 Compact 4". I like it a lot. I do believe .40 works better in pistols that were designed for it.
I currently carry a Max 9 more than anything else. That is because I want a small easily concealed pistol. I would not want a .40 the same size as my Max 9. I just don't think it would be as pleasant. The thing is every handgun is a compromise. We all just have to decide what trade-offs we are willing to make.

 

[pyth0n]

Which is better?

YES!

 

[gunzo]

Energy vs. capacity. Pick yer poison.

9 handguns tend to hold more rounds, but not a 9 that can equal the power of the better 40 rounds.

Flip a coin.

 

[blume357]

Here's one of my favorite bedtime stories:

Once upon a time, most Americans owned wheel guns, and most of those were .38 Specials. A .38 would work for plinking, competition, or self defense, wouldn't over-stress the wheel gun, and didn't cost an arm-and-a-leg to feed. Most cops carried .38s, and the military even issued them.

Then along came the .357 Magnum, with more power than the good old .38! Hot dang, now we're shootin'! Many wheel gun manufacturers produced .357s built on .38 frames, and most law enforcement agencies swapped to .357s. But gun owners complained about the .357's recoil (too snappy), and about how a lot of guns would shoot loose if fed a steady diet of the bigger cartridge, and dang, that .357 ammo sure was expensive! Some called the cartridge a colossal marketing failure.

But wait - the people announced, we don't want wheel guns anymore, anyway! We want 15 rounds, not just 6! Give us "Wonder Nines!"

So most Americans bought autos, and most of those were 9x19s. A 9mm would work for plinking, competition, or self defense, wouldn't over-stress the pistol, and didn't cost an arm-and-a-leg to feed. Most cops carried 9x19s, and the military even issued them.

The 9mm was just like the .38, but you could empty the box of ammo faster! 'Merica!

Then along came the .40 S&W, with more power than the good old 9mm! Hot dang, now we're shootin'! Many pistol manufacturers produced .40s built on 9mm frames, and most law enforcement agencies swapped to .40s. But gun owners complained about the .40's recoil (too snappy), and about how a lot of guns wore out faster if fed a steady diet of the bigger cartridge, and dang, that 40 caliber ammo sure was expensive! Some called the cartridge a colossal marketing failure.

So, many people went back to their 9mm pistols, and the world was good... until mean old King Joe the Crazy banned the evil 9mm cartridge, because "it'll blow the lungs right out of your body!" And the Democrats lived happily ever after.

THE END

I don't disagree with most of that bedtime story except.... there was the 38 special and then the Military adopted the 1911 in 45acp. It was a long time after that the 357 magnum came along.
If you watch movies from the 30's and 40's there are a lot of 38s and the really bad guys will often have a 1911.

Oh, and the 40 was not good enough so they had to make it longer, more powerful, and then comes the 10mm and after that they wanted more speed out of the 10mm and so they kept the cartridge size and necked it down to 9mm and along comes the 357 Sig.

 

[Mike J]

I don't disagree with most of that bedtime story except.... there was the 38 special and then the Military adopted the 1911 in 45acp. It was a long time after that the 357 magnum came along.
If you watch movies from the 30's and 40's there are a lot of 38s and the really bad guys will often have a 1911.

Oh, and the 40 was not good enough so they had to make it longer, more powerful, and then comes the 10mm and after that they wanted more speed out of the 10mm and so they kept the cartridge size and necked it down to 9mm and along comes the 357 Sig.

The 10mm actually was before the 40. The FBI went to it after the 1986 FBI shootout. They blamed the 9mm cartridge for what went wrong that day. They then loaded the 10mm light because people complained about the recoil. Then S&W had the bright idea of shortening the cartridge since it was being loaded light anyway so they could put it in smaller guns. Then later came .357 Sig.
I haven't ventured off into .357 Sig but I do believe it is a good round.
FWIW the only 10mm I have ever shot was a friends RIA 1911. The recoil really didn't seem bad to me but it is a large heavy gun.

 

[GasGuzzler]

Someone really started this topic?

 

[Randyzzz]

Which is better?

You forgot my personal favorite…

 

[davevabch]

You forgot my personal favorite…


View attachment 49146

Wow! A taste of heaven.

 

[Hertervillian]

My 40 still does what it always has done, don't really need to replace it with a 9 that will do the same thing. When ammo companies were given a standard to meet, they did just that. 40 and 45 were dumbed down to meet it, 9 was optimized.

As a gun maker, that's the sort of thing you run with. Talk about marketing, a nations police forces now needing the latest greatest improvement.

I'm not truly old. However, I can't recall anything about police shootings involving piles of speed loaders at the feet of the involved officers. Now it takes 3 mag dumps minimum to stop these assailants. Is it the cartridge or the magazine that has sold all these new Wonder 9's ?

I could learn to love a Smith, always been more of a SIG guy. "But I'm willing to change, if I have to."

 

[OxCart]

Most 40sw pistols were built on 9 frames. Most 10mm are built on .45 frames.

Exception. The HK USP was designed for the 40sw and then released in 9mm.

 

[tazbigdog]

I've shot Smith, Sig and Glock .40s for years. Never an issue. Would fire everytime. I've owned 9mm as well. No issues. Personal preference. I like bigger rounds. .45 even better.

 

[Delbert]

I've got 9mm and 40S&W in both pistols and carbines.

I carry a S&W 9mmSDVE as an EDC (concealed permit) due to it being able to hold 16rds in the magazine. This model is/was designed very much like the Glock and has a great POA for me, which makes it very comfortable to use and S&W was also sued by Glock due to this styling design starting with the SW models, so now they have to give Glock a royalty. I don't own any Glocks and the SDVE models are around $300 compared to the same size Glock being over $500 (new).

My 40's are noticeably more powerful when using off the shelf ammo's. And, unlike 9mm, the 40S&W ammo CANNOT be gotten as a +P or +P+ ammo unless you handload your own, which would probably over-pressure the chamber. If you DO WANT a more powerful 40, then it will be called a 10MM which many law enforcement can't handle, which is why the FBI went to the weaker 40 when the women/girlie men couldn't handle it.

I use my 40 carbine w/1.5-5 Konus Pro scope as a deer hunting cartridge for things within 100yds. I haven't shot a deer in my area over 50yds yet. Both my 40S&W are Hi-Points.

My 9mm carbine is also a Hi-Point and is used as a fun plinker and coyote or smaller varmint shooter, but it having a 16" barrel and using same off the shelf ammo's, gives about 200-250 more velocity over a pistol and can handle +P ammos if wanted for even more punch.

 

[Randyzzz]

Most 40sw pistols were built on 9 frames. Most 10mm are built on .45 frames.

Exception. The HK USP was designed for the 40sw and then released in 9mm.

I've got a USP 40C (compact) and a USP9SD (supressor package). The full size 9mm feels like a tank. Not that it's a bad thing. I think the P30 is about the perfect size 9mm package. But my favorite is my HK45… but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

 

[Mike J]

Most 40sw pistols were built on 9 frames. Most 10mm are built on .45 frames.

Exception. The HK USP was designed for the 40sw and then released in 9mm.

The S&W M&P was designed for 40 & then converted to 9. The Gen 4 & later Glock 40 caliber pistols were designed for 40 due to issues they had with it. The Sig P-229 was I believe redesigned for 40.

 

[WendyZXZ]

I prefer my HK UPS 40 Full size to my FNX9. A little more recoil but I think the grip angle makes it fit me better. Looking for a different 9mm though.

My husband is a big fan of the USP we have here in .40, it is a great pistol!

 

[OxCart]

The S&W M&P was designed for 40 & then converted to 9. The Gen 4 & later Glock 40 caliber pistols were designed for 40 due to issues they had with it. The Sig P-229 was I believe redesigned for 40.

1993 for the USP, 2005 for the M&P. I was referring to the early days of 40 when guns were breaking.

 

[blume357]

Seems anything new has its problems... how many recalls has Ruger had?

The simple truth is we gun folks love to debate calibers.....

the reason 9mm is such a great round is it is a compromise that pretty much everyone accepted and liked and the market is flooded with 9mm handguns and so the ammo used to be cheap, now it is just less expensive than the other more 'robust' rounds. I've shot 40 and it is okay... not sure I've ever shot 10mm but I got my carry pistol (Sig P239 in 357 Sig) from a guy who had purchased it a month before and then after taking it to the range decided it was too much for him, I love it.

Oh and in looking at the more recent post... I'm sorely tempted to switch to H&K....