9mm Single Six?

[k22fan]

Jim,

You are forgetting that .25 ACPs use .251" bullets, not .257". That's the biggest obstacle to assembling an affordable and accurate .25 ACP sporting gun. A dull .25 caliber rifle broach could be resharpened to make it small enough but involving a custom barrel maker would price me out of the project. Also not very many gunsmiths would want to tie up their money in a chamber reamer.

Because they are larger than most .25 ACPs and have longer barrels I have considered one of Mauser's odd .25 ACP pistols from the early part of the last century. I think their model number is 1910 but I'm not sure. I didn't buy one for two reasons. It appeared the barrel is not mounted rigidly enough and used magazines cost $125.

Locally shooters brag after finding a 100 round box of CCI .22 LR for $8. Bullet casters can reload .38 special for less. For as long as the .22 shortage has gone on there has been a practical reason to have a good .25. If manufacturers realized how long the shortage was going to last some probably would have been built.

 

[Hondo44]

Oh you're right.

Ok, how about this? A .22 Mag cyl chamber is only .030" smaller than the .25 ACP case, that small amount can be honed out and not need a reamer. The .25 ACP is a semi-rimmed cartridge so the chambers won't need a shoulder in them. Hone the rest of the chamber & throats to .251.

Ruger .22 barrels are everywhere. I've got 2 or 3 in a drawer. Have it sleeved to .251. A lot cheaper than re-boring.

 

[k22fan]

First off I don't have your work shop or your skills. I did some production machine operation a loooooooong time ago but that's about it. Your idea could work but where the heck would you find a .251" barrel liner?

Incidentally, old collector books reported that a tiny number of Walther PPs were made in .25 ACP. PP barrels are rigidly fixed (pinned?) to the frame so they tend to group tight. Good luck finding one at a price that would make sense.

I doubt this would appear marketable to Jason at Lipseys but he knows there are more than a few loony tune gun buyers so I can hope.

By the way, since you like .32s I'll add that a lot of the WW II and pre-WW II "pocket" size .32 ACPs like PPs group tight at 25 yards if they are fired slow and carefully with good light on their tiny sights. The ones with a barrel that is readily removed from the gun usually aren't too accurate.

 

[Hondo44]

Track of the Wolf makes liners; $5.89 per inch. About $30 worth for a 4 5/8" Ruger.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/item.aspx/637/1
TJ's makes them.

I couldn't do it either, have to farm it out. Maybe $100 total with liner, .22 Mag cyl $75, .22 barrel $30 to $50.
I could install the barrel once it's lined. Not too bad for a custom 25 ACP.

I'm sure you're right! Jason at Lipsey's might say; "Are you kidding me?"

A custom is about the only possibility.

I only like Smith DA and Ruger SA .32s. Colt Pocket And Browning in .25 ACP.

 

[awp101]

I wonder what they wil do for a single 8?

Bring out a Single 8 .25 ACP?

A member over at singleactions.com has a .25ACP Blackhawk and .257 Special (.25-20 bullets in a Hornet case trimmed to .38 Special length) Single Eight. He has a friend who is a retired tool and die maker and the two of them did it.

Both use new made cylinders (both 8 shot IIRC), the .25 ACP BH has a .251 liner from TJs and the .257 has a barrel made from a .25-20 blank.

It can be done and I have kicked around the idea of either a .25ACP or .22 Snapper conversion on a Single frame. I've been a dedicated .22LR guy for years but this is getting ridiculous. I'm to the point the .25s, .32s and .38s will be the new plinking rounds when I finally get around to getting my reloading gear set up.

Story makes an 8 shot .22 cyl drop in for Rugers that can be reamed for the .25 cartridge.

Thanks, I wondered about those but didn't know if there was enough meat between the walls to do so.

 

[Hondo44]

I converted a .32 single six to .218 Bee Short. Haven't decided what to call it yet:
.22 Hondo Super Mag or .22-20 Winch.

Started by buying a used .32 single six, $400. Single six parts kit with a 22 LR cyl and 22 barrel from Gunbroker, $75. 218 Bee reamer from Brownells, $110. Traded for a new model steel XR3 grip frame. Total of $585 invested.

Reamed cyl with the .218 Bee reamer, shorten and neck down 25/20 cases to .22.
Load in .218 Bee dies with 4227 or 2400.
Best results is to start with a 22 LR chambered cyl; since the chambers are charge holes (no shoulder) the chambers make better pilot holes for the reamer to follow than a 22 mag cyl.

Installed the 4 5/8" .22 barrel.

 

[k22fan]

If I understand the work you did correctly it is a .218 Bee that has to have the bullet seated to a shorter over all length? I'm not so sure that qualifies as a different cartridge but if it does I vote for .220 Hondo Super Mag.

Charge hole v. chamber. A member over on the S&W forum posted that he'd only seen the use of "charge hole" on that forum and it irritated him to no end. Another member produced S&W factory literature using "charge hole" for centerfires. Perhaps if Ruger has only used "charge hole" for the Old Army it can be like stocks v. grips and yoke v. crane, brand specific.

 

[Hondo44]

k22fan,

For my .218 Bee Short the cases are shortened so bullets are seated normally. But the .218 case is just a 25-20 case with a taller shoulder for more powder volume, and of course necked down to .22. So if you shorten the neck there's almost no neck left. Therefore I neck down 25-20 cases to .22 the shorten their longer neck.

LOL!
I don't understand the frustration levels some develop over terms. I use what I feel is the most descriptive and tolerate what others use. Unless it's just flat incorrect which causes people to understand a different part than what they're talking about. But if one says chamber or bore straight thru for .22, I know exactly which hole in the gun they're referring to.

Charge hole originally came from cap and ball revolvers. But the 1st cartridges as we all know used heeled bullets so no shoulder in the chambers. And charge hole still applied and just kind of hung on I guess. The 1st American cartridge was Smith's .22 and as it turns out, the only remaining heeled bullet cartridge in the U.S. Manufacturers hate to make them, apparently more difficult with higher production failure rates than inside lubed bullet cartridges.

 

[eskimo36]

This is my Single Six 9mm from Alan Harton.

 

[Hondo44]

eskimo,

That's very cool! That's just how I would do it, looks just like a factory gun. No extra bells and whistles!

I notice it has the short .32 H&R Vaquerito grip frame. Was that your host gun you started with for the center fire firing pin location? And then re-blued it?

Pretty easy conversion, barrel, cyl, and enlarge the loading trough. Pleases tell us about it. Did Alan ream the cyl or make a new one?
Re-bored factory Ruger barrel?
Or .32 custom barrel?

Are there little indentations where the enlarged trough almost went thru into the transfer bar milling cut? Or am I seeing the photo correctly?

Thx for sharing it with us.

 

[Aeroscout9]

That's very nice!

 

[eskimo36]

It was a 32 mag Single Six Vaquero to start. Alan made the cylinder and it's a custom barrel. The loading port is slightly opened but not nearly as much as the 38 special single sixes. It is regulated for 115 gr factory 9mm ammo. It is a very lightweight very easy pointing six gun. The holster is Barranti.

 

[Hondo44]

It was a 32 mag Single Six Vaquero to start. Alan made the cylinder and it's a custom barrel. The loading port is slightly opened but not nearly as much as the 38 special single sixes. It is regulated for 115 gr factory 9mm ammo. It is a very lightweight very easy pointing six gun. The holster is Barranti.

Thank you. Yes I know for a fact that opening the loading trough enough for the .38 rimmed cartridge will absolutely cut into the milled transfer bar slot. And it's limited to a 5 shot as well.

 

[Hondo44]

Here's what a .357 Mag. Super Single Six looks like.
The loading trough is skeletonized as well as other parts of the frame.

NIGHTOWLS Custom
Oversize custom 5 shot cylinder.
Steel XR3-RED grip frame and Steel ERH with custom Maple grips. 1996 engraved on butt

Sold for $1500 shipped. You cannot have the custom work done for $1500.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=159489

As shown one can see that the cylinder bolt must be 'blocked' when the floor of the cyl window is skeletonized:

 

[dixie884]

I think that is cool..........

 

[dougader]

I've seen a member on the single actions site post pics of his 38 Super Single Six.

I like these conversions!