9mm Blackhawk convertibles.....

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Stantheman1986

Single-Sixer
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May 3, 2023
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I have a 9mm / .357 convertible and I often use both cylinders. I've never considered its use with 9mm to be anything besides a convenience / emergency / way-to-use-less-expensive-ammo feature because of the mismatch of .355" bullets in a .357" bore. Certainly jacketed bullets can sometimes perform fairly well in the case of a slightly undersize bullet, but no matter what it is sub-optimum.
It's basically for plinking when .22 gets boring

Also we need to keep in mind that 9mm Range Ammo, factory reloads and steel case were dirt cheap when Ruger started offering the 357/9mm convertibles so people probably weren't as worried about mediocre accuracy to pop coffee cans or pie plates with 9mm you could get almost as cheap as .22

It's only in these recent years that I honestly really even worried about the group spread. When Tulammo 9mm was 90 bucks per case I popped 1000s of rounds of that stuff through these Blackhawks just hanging out at the gun club for an afternoon , along with some autochuckers
 

GasGuzzler

Hunter
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DFW Area, Texas
But .38 special was cheap back then too. Not as cheap as steel case that I never did nor never will ever buy, but way cheaper than now. I imagine most people that shoot .38 Special load their own. I save the steel case for 7.62X39.
 

Thumbcocker

Blackhawk
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Aug 8, 2010
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Sounthern Illinois
Absolutely tolerable to the point of just fine but,,,,,,,, The question is, would it be tighter or easier to "tighten up " with the 38/357 cyl in there .
The gun shoots better with the .357 cylinder no doubt. In fairness though I load 9mm range brass because I an cheap. All headstamps mixed together. The .357 loads are put up in Starline brass. How much of a difference that would make; I have no idea. Try weighing some 9mm brass. It is all over the place.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
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Lake Lure NC USA
Good point about the brass Thumbcocker.

I sort & separate all my brass. The .9mm stuff,, by far has the largest selection of manufacturers I've ever seen. Range brass can be tricky to load on a progressive (Dillon) press,, so I choose to remove all the "odd" types. Much of it foreign made, and it varies in many ways in it's dimensions or weight.
Even domestic brass can be a bit varied,, but I have fewer issues with known makers,, so I stick with those. I personally keep about (7) brands that I get a fair amount of,, and I also keep a tub of about 5-6 others all domestic brands. I don't get a lot of the odd "tub" stuff,, but when it gets full,, it'll be sorted for the brands that can allow easier loading.
Some of the foreign stuff,, you can easily see physical differences in how the brass is made.

And it follows that if you cast your own bullets,, you can get a bullet a bit larger in diameter than .355. As such,, it can also be more accurate in a Blackhawk like that.
 

Stantheman1986

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But .38 special was cheap back then too. Not as cheap as steel case that I never did nor never will ever buy, but way cheaper than now. I imagine most people that shoot .38 Special load their own. I save the steel case for 7.62X39.
It was also a sales gimmick, a "convertible" revolver that also shoots 9mm

Whatever .38 cost back then, 9 was probably less and maybe European surplus was around in bulk in the 1960s? Bill Ruger was no dummy . Autos in 9mm weren't as hugely popular either.

People have asked me "why does Ruger make single actions in 9mm and .45 ACP?" Because they're cheaper to shoot.

If I had deep pockets I'd be out right now shooting boxes through my .327 GP100 or .41 Mag Blackhawk, or the rest of my big boomers like my .44 Redhawk snubby or Alaskan. But I can't afford a $300 ammo tab for a day out at the club so I usually shoot 9mm or .22.

7.62x39 bolt action rifles went through a "phase " too back when Russian steel case and Eastern European surplus was so cheap it was almost free, Ruger made an American in 7.62x39 to catch the tail end of that. That cheap ammo is a memory now .

Cheap ammo alternatives sell guns, my dealer sells a lot of those .22 LR Glocks
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2023
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The .45 ACP convertibles do way better and are honestly way more fun. Those short, fat bullets load easy and quick. And at 15 I was cutting ragged holes, at 25 two handed I was shooting golf ball sized groups if I did my part, and this target was shot one handed at 25 with 2 cylinders one handed which landed near the bull

It just costs almost double per bang vs 9mm

It hits where you put the sights if you do your part , way better than my 357/9 convertibles but I have room in my heart for them all
It does help that the .45 ACP and Colt are both loaded with the same size bullets, not to mention that both are inherently accurate cartridges to begin with!
 

MG34_Dan

Bearcat
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Austin Texas USA
The best thing about using a 9mm cylinder in my stainless New Vaquero is that I can safely fire British surplus L7A1 9mm ammo. The recoil and muzzle blast are impressive.

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MG34_Dan

Bearcat
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May 28, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Austin Texas USA
Mine was reborn as a 357/44 Bain & Davis!
Back in '77 I wanted to go handgun hunting for deer in Pennsylvania. So, I bought a new stainless New Model Blackhawk in .357 Magnum. I got it from Ron Shirk in Lebanon, PA. I sent the cylinder off to Bob Booth in Castro Valley California where he machined it for his new wildcat cartridge, the 357/44 Bobcat Magnum. While waiting for the cylinder to return, I sent the frame off to Ruger and had a new .357 cylinder fit. Both the Bobcat machined cylinder and the Blackhawk with a new cylinder fit arrived on the same day. Now I had a dual cylinder stainless Blackhawk.

I sent the complete revolver off the Austin Behlert in New Jersey for one of his action jobs. The trigger really is nice and crisp.

The bottleneck 357/44 Bobcat Magnum cartridge is simply a .44 Magnum necked down to .38 caliber. The cylinder is not bottleneck reamed as the cartridge itself requires a collar to be placed around the entire bottle neck taking the loaded cartridge to 44 Magnum dimensions, except for the bullet itself. Luckily I ordered a bunch of collars with the cylinder machining.

At the time, I think I paid $165 for the Blackhawk. A new cylinder fitted from Ruger costed under $50. The cost to Bob Booth for reworking the original cylinder, dies, 200 collars, and 50 rounds of loaded ammo was less than $75.

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RadioTech

Bearcat
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
3
I also have another cylinder for the bobcat cartridge, still have some sleeves for the reduced neck.
 

Stantheman1986

Single-Sixer
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May 3, 2023
Messages
396
Location
USA
The best thing about using a 9mm cylinder in my stainless New Vaquero is that I can safely fire British surplus L7A1 9mm ammo. The recoil and muzzle blast are impressive.
It's like when that 9mm +P++ German Hirtenberger stuff was coming into the US in the mid 2000s , and it was cracking people's frames and slides

It seems like it's perfect for a Convertible
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
25,138
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Lake Lure NC USA
"It does help that the .45 ACP and Colt are both loaded with the same size bullets, not to mention that both are inherently accurate cartridges to begin with!"

Actually,, the .45 acp uses a .451 while the .45 Colt uses a .452 bullet. That .001 difference isn't as noticeable as the .9mm/.357 combo. In general,, the .9mm is .355 while the .357 usually uses a .357 bullet (jacketed,) & a .358 bullet (cast).
 

bisleyfan41

Blackhawk
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
660
Location
People's Republic of Maryland
Back in '77 I wanted to go handgun hunting for deer in Pennsylvania. So, I bought a new stainless New Model Blackhawk in .357 Magnum. I got it from Ron Shirk in Lebanon, PA. I sent the cylinder off to Bob Booth in Castro Valley California where he machined it for his new wildcat cartridge, the 357/44 Bobcat Magnum. While waiting for the cylinder to return, I sent the frame off to Ruger and had a new .357 cylinder fit. Both the Bobcat machined cylinder and the Blackhawk with a new cylinder fit arrived on the same day. Now I had a dual cylinder stainless Blackhawk.

I sent the complete revolver off the Austin Behlert in New Jersey for one of his action jobs. The trigger really is nice and crisp.

The bottleneck 357/44 Bobcat Magnum cartridge is simply a .44 Magnum necked down to .38 caliber. The cylinder is not bottleneck reamed as the cartridge itself requires a collar to be placed around the entire bottle neck taking the loaded cartridge to 44 Magnum dimensions, except for the bullet itself. Luckily I ordered a bunch of collars with the cylinder machining.

At the time, I think I paid $165 for the Blackhawk. A new cylinder fitted from Ruger costed under $50. The cost to Bob Booth for reworking the original cylinder, dies, 200 collars, and 50 rounds of loaded ammo was less than $75.

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IMG-1658-Sanitized.jpg


IMG-1662.jpg


IMG-1664.jpg


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Thank you for sharing this, especially with the history and pics. This has been the most fascinating post to me on the forum in quite a while. Never heard of this cartridge before. Cool!
 

vlavalle

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2022
Messages
261
Location
Chandler, AZ
Good point about the brass Thumbcocker.

I sort & separate all my brass. The .9mm stuff,, by far has the largest selection of manufacturers I've ever seen. Range brass can be tricky to load on a progressive (Dillon) press,, so I choose to remove all the "odd" types. Much of it foreign made, and it varies in many ways in it's dimensions or weight.
Even domestic brass can be a bit varied,, but I have fewer issues with known makers,, so I stick with those. I personally keep about (7) brands that I get a fair amount of,, and I also keep a tub of about 5-6 others all domestic brands. I don't get a lot of the odd "tub" stuff,, but when it gets full,, it'll be sorted for the brands that can allow easier loading.
Some of the foreign stuff,, you can easily see physical differences in how the brass is made.

And it follows that if you cast your own bullets,, you can get a bullet a bit larger in diameter than .355. As such,, it can also be more accurate in a Blackhawk like that.
You should get a copy of my ammo/ballistics file. My file shows ammo for 35 handgun calibers and 25 rifle ones. It has over 3,500 entries, where each entry is an online link to a site that sells that ammo. I list 528 ,45 ACP sites that sell this ammo, and 393 sites that list 9mm. Of course, my file does not list all ammo retailers - just the ones I comes across (I get maybe 5-10 email about ammo sales daily), and all the links they might point to as well in their website.

Also, note that for both the .45 ACP and 9mm entries, only about 200 are unique ammo entries, and the rest are simply the same ammo sold by other retailers. So, my evidence and research shows that there are at least as many, and possibly more .45 ACP online sales than 9mm. I only deal with online retailers. I have been building this ammo file for over 10 years. Each entry shows the price per box, per round, its rating (by that retailer), and its ballistics (speed, power), and bullet type.

If you would like a copy of this ammo file, just message me here, and I will either email it to you, or tell you how to get it from my website., whichever you prefer I give this out freely, and it is a PDF file, so anyone can read it, and it is completely safe. It is not really usable on a cell phone. The file is too wide, and with over 3,500 entries, it is too deep as well.
 

Stantheman1986

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 3, 2023
Messages
396
Location
USA
I read somewhere thatvwhen the convertible Blackhawk came out it was not uncommon for gun shops to have bins full of 9mm European militarily surplus ammo for a few cents per round. That would explain a lot.
Sometimes firearm production follows cheap surplus ammo

I'd suspect the .30 Blackhawk was partially motivated by marketing as a "companion " to the then also cheap surplus M1 Carbines, and tons of cheap surplus ammo on the market

I remember the Pakistani Ordnance Factory surplus 9mm in the 90s and early 2000s :) that stuff was , at best, mediocre and was probably perfect for a 9mm Blackhawk cylinder because it was rare to get a magazine through a pistol without a jam with it. But it was something like $40 per 1400 round case so people sucked it up

Like the Turkish 8mm Mauser ammo.....some of it wouldn't go off but it was basically free it was so cheap, it was good enough for plinking through a 50 buck Turk or Yugo Mauser. I had so much of that crap I recently basically gave away 50,000 rounds of it to my local gun shop just because it took up so much room. And I rarely fire rifles so I'd never shoot 5% of that stuff. I ordered it by the drop shipped pallet in 2002 or so, dirt cheap. I shot it like .22, blasting at dirt clumps on the 100 yard berm until my hand guard started smoking and consmoline was leaking out of the stock .

I miss the days of driving home in the car , stinking like cordite and consmoline, having fired bolt action rifles all day for probably 20 bucks in ammo
 

Stantheman1986

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 3, 2023
Messages
396
Location
USA
I read somewhere thatvwhen the convertible Blackhawk came out it was not uncommon for gun shops to have bins full of 9mm European militarily surplus ammo for a few cents per round. That would explain a lot.
People probably didn't care as much about sloppy bullet to bore fit and "minute of cantaloupe " groups at 25 when surplus 9mm was basically loud .22
 

Stantheman1986

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 3, 2023
Messages
396
Location
USA
"It does help that the .45 ACP and Colt are both loaded with the same size bullets, not to mention that both are inherently accurate cartridges to begin with!"

Actually,, the .45 acp uses a .451 while the .45 Colt uses a .452 bullet. That .001 difference isn't as noticeable as the .9mm/.357 combo. In general,, the .9mm is .355 while the .357 usually uses a .357 bullet (jacketed,) & a .358 bullet (cast).
I'd never know it by how my Blackhawk and Vaquero shoot .45 ACP

Also, now I'm curious if my TALO .45 ACP non convertible birdshead has a ".45 ACP " bore or they just use a .45 LC pipe. Because that gun is a tack driver
 
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