9mm Blackhawk convertibles.....

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Stantheman1986

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I don't have a 9mm revolver and probably never will But,,,,,,, I think your attitude is spot on for your expectations of the cartridge in a hand gun.
9mm never was designed or expected to shoot at distances. (Except maybe some tangent sighted military handgun/carbines and they were not much good at it)
Even the guys shooting the 9mm carbines with scopes and all are getting minute of refrigerator at long distance.
15 yards is plenty long for me with a 9mm Blackhawk or pretty much any 9mm.

I fired my scoped .30 Carbine Blackhawk to 100 last week, that's the tool for that job , or my .44 SBH Hunter.

I've been carrying pistols for a living most of my adult life, and there's a reason training and qualifications don't go more than 25 yards. Because under stress , shooting 9mm-40-45-.38 handguns at ranges like 50 yards is basically just spray and pray, because usually we don't have a range table and a sandbag available in a gun fight. Also the adrenaline dump and chaos of a gun fight, with lots of moving and shooting....it is hoped that if Police Officers- COs- Security Guards or military personnel are engaged with bad guys past pistol range, that rifles have entered the equation at that point

Also, as a civilian carrying a concealed pistol....I honestly feel that I have no business taking Hail Mary shots at 50-100 yards with small caliber pistols when I should be using that distance to get out of there. Barring some freak mall shooter type scenario
 

Stantheman1986

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The 9mm / 357 Blackhawks can certainly be a tease.....this is what my other convertible will show you at 15 yards.......but at 25.....expect a group 4-5x bigger.

Good thing the Turkey Shoots at my club are at 15 yards......I'm going to fine tune this thing and reconfirm a dead nuts zero with Winchester 9mm NATO and cut the X's out

If they move the target backer to 18 yards I'm probably screwed , it's gotta be 15 for this gun :)

I love guns with weird idiosyncrasies. I have a Mossberg 500 that will shoot slugs with rifle like accuracy to pretty much exactly 90 yards. Shoot at 50, boom, it clusters Slugsters into a golf ball sized group. Shoot at the 75 target line, a little looser. Play around and stand a few yards in front of the bench at 100, it can keep them on target. Step back a few yards to 110ish, spray and pray. That little bit of distance is just the limit

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Stantheman1986

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May 3, 2023
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You might want to explore sending your cylinder out to Fermin Garza to true up the cylinder mouths. The one flyer situation might be from one tight chamber.
If he would do the .38 Super reaming I'd send it to him

I'd probably then have Ruger fit a new 9mm cylinder, since they will fit 9mm cylinders to Factory Convertibles. So I'd have my 9mm plinker and the .38 Super just to have something different
 

contender

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Sep 18, 2002
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Lake Lure NC USA
"I don't have a 9mm revolver and probably never will But,,,,,,, I think your attitude is spot on for your expectations of the cartridge in a hand gun.
9mm never was designed or expected to shoot at distances. (Except maybe some tangent sighted military handgun/carbines and they were not much good at it)
Even the guys shooting the 9mm carbines with scopes and all are getting minute of refrigerator at long distance."

I have to respectfully disagree with the above.

Just last weekend,, I went to the USPSA Area 6 Regional competition match. I shot it,, AND worked it for 4 days. (It was 12 stages of fire,, with about 350 rounds required to complete the match.)
In the 12 stages of fire,, and often,, there were targets further than 10, or 15 yds. Plus,, not always at an optimal angle. I'd say that 90% of the guns used were .9mm. From revolvers to semi-auto's to PCC carbines.
I saw plenty of good solid accurate hits on targets,, including moving targets with all of these types of firearms.
Now,, add in the fact that everybody was trying to shoot as fast as they could, AND moving around etc,, the "A" zone area is harder to hit. It's approximately 6" wide by 12" tall. I saw plenty of targets with (2) hits, in the A zone,, that one paster (measuring approximately 1" square) could cover the 2 hits,, or a second paster was necessary, yet overlapping the 1st one.
MANY of the 9mm handguns, and PCC carbines are very capable at distances many feel are "too far."
Just like any caliber or ammo/firearm combo,, you have to build accurate ammo to match the firearm. If done so,, even at distances, they can be VERY accurate.
A discussion recently about the distances people "test" their ammo or firearm etc,, and especially writers for gun rags,, revealed how the older standard has been reduced. A former employee of Ruger stated that when they used to test for accuracy, acceptable accuracy was approximately 1" per 25 yds. Now,, that was most likely when using a machine rest,, but still, it's an OLD standard. Many gun rag writers, or others who's skills are not very good, want to SELL their stories & such. So, they shorten the distances,, and call the guns "accurate" when in reality they can be very lacking.
A member here,, (David Bradshaw,) who has won a bunch of metallic silhouette matches,, shooting handguns,, will say a STARTING distance to determine a handgun's accuracy potential should be 25 yds, and go beyond that to really "test" a gun, a bullet, and a load. Bullet design also plays a lot in longer distance handgunning.

But to say a .9mm isn't capable of long distance accuracy,, or to use the phrase; "refrigerator sized groups" at distance,, should watch a lot of average Joe's shoot a USPSA match.

NO offense meant here,, just point out a different viewpoint of handgunning, and especially the .9mm.
 
Joined
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missouri
I have 2 of the convertibles with 6 1/2" barrel. Got the first one before 1980 (I think) and can't remember when the second one showed up. To the best of my memory, I've not fired either with the 9mm cylinder. My bad, just never really saw the need.
 

CHEVYINLINE6

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Joined
Nov 29, 2022
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Vancouver Washington
I have dual cylinder Blackhawk. 38/357/9mm. When 38 and 357 are hard to come by and expensive, I can still shoot 9mm. Plenty of 9mm around here and cheap as $18.00 a box of 50 rounds. 38 Special is twice that and 357 mag, 3 times that. I will save the 38/357 stuff for more serious shooting. I have everything to reload if need be. I plan on shooting my muzzle loader more this year. With my muzzle loader I can shoot some real wimpy loads. I recently bought a 1940's Montgomery Wards drill press that was made by Duro Metal Products. It is all steel and cast iron. Last year I hurt my right arm and moving the drill press into my garage has not helped it any, so no heavy recoiling guns for awhile.

CHEVYINLINE6.
 

Rclark

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Butte, MT
acceptable accuracy was approximately 1" per 25 yds. Now,, that was most likely when using a machine rest,
Sounds right. When I get a new revolver, I start at 15Y to dial in, then fine tune at 25Y. Now my groups are more like 2-4" at 25Y depending. But definitely in middle of a paper plate. That said, I can't call a gun 'accurate' when shooting from 7-15 Yards. Even smooth bores should work well at those distances. No offense. Once set I have 'confidence' that I can then reach out to 50Y, 75Y and still mostly hit what I aim at (slow single action fire).

I have 2 of the convertibles with 6 1/2" barrel.
My .357 convertible is the flattop BH (medium frame). The bonus for me is it came in 5 1/2" barrel length. Perfect as all my favorite Single Actions have 5 1/2" barrels (my preference). Never thought I'd see the day that Ruger would offer (thanks to Lipseys) such a revolver. Happy camper.
 
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GasGuzzler

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Oct 22, 2012
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Location
DFW Area, Texas
Completely missed the point. It's unlikely to find a barrel that will shoot lights out at a distance with two different caliber bullets. It's a .357 you can shoot .38 in that also was supplied with a 9X19 cylinder. It's not nomenclaure, it's a .357 barrel for a .358 bullet shooting a .355-.356 bullet no matter what we call it. Semantics is what has people incorrectly insert the "Long" in .45 Colt and write "ACP" instead of AUTO for .45 AUTO. .357/.38 vs 9mm Luger is not nomenclature, it's mathematics.

By the way, you can multi-quote people. Just click the quote button on each reply you'd like to quote then insert your commentary. Way easier on the eyes.
 
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Hankus

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15 yards is plenty long for me with a 9mm Blackhawk or pretty much any 9mm.

I fired my scoped .30 Carbine Blackhawk to 100 last week, that's the tool for that job , or my .44 SBH Hunter.

I've been carrying pistols for a living most of my adult life, and there's a reason training and qualifications don't go more than 25 yards. Because under stress , shooting 9mm-40-45-.38 handguns at ranges like 50 yards is basically just spray and pray, because usually we don't have a range table and a sandbag available in a gun fight. Also the adrenaline dump and chaos of a gun fight, with lots of moving and shooting....it is hoped that if Police Officers- COs- Security Guards or military personnel are engaged with bad guys past pistol range, that rifles have entered the equation at that point

Also, as a civilian carrying a concealed pistol....I honestly feel that I have no business taking Hail Mary shots at 50-100 yards with small caliber pistols when I should be using that distance to get out of there. Barring some freak mall shooter type scenario
Agreed on most points, but I tend to practice at 25 yards with my handguns, with one exception; When in the woods at my mother-in-law’s place in the country in GA on the ATV or on foot I carry a Blackhawk or Vaquero in .45LC for “pest control” and have taken coyotes and bobcats with it out past 50 yards with pretty good results using Kentucky windage. As I’ve gotten older I’ve started to think about a .45LC carbine to put in a scabbard on the ATV for this purpose. Lo and behold, last week I ran across a color-case-hardened Henry at a LGS. It would look really good with my CCH Vaquero but it’s pricey!
 

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Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Messages
369
Location
Flat Rock, NC
"I don't have a 9mm revolver and probably never will But,,,,,,, I think your attitude is spot on for your expectations of the cartridge in a hand gun.
9mm never was designed or expected to shoot at distances. (Except maybe some tangent sighted military handgun/carbines and they were not much good at it)
Even the guys shooting the 9mm carbines with scopes and all are getting minute of refrigerator at long distance."

I have to respectfully disagree with the above.

Just last weekend,, I went to the USPSA Area 6 Regional competition match. I shot it,, AND worked it for 4 days. (It was 12 stages of fire,, with about 350 rounds required to complete the match.)
In the 12 stages of fire,, and often,, there were targets further than 10, or 15 yds. Plus,, not always at an optimal angle. I'd say that 90% of the guns used were .9mm. From revolvers to semi-auto's to PCC carbines.
I saw plenty of good solid accurate hits on targets,, including moving targets with all of these types of firearms.
Now,, add in the fact that everybody was trying to shoot as fast as they could, AND moving around etc,, the "A" zone area is harder to hit. It's approximately 6" wide by 12" tall. I saw plenty of targets with (2) hits, in the A zone,, that one paster (measuring approximately 1" square) could cover the 2 hits,, or a second paster was necessary, yet overlapping the 1st one.
MANY of the 9mm handguns, and PCC carbines are very capable at distances many feel are "too far."
Just like any caliber or ammo/firearm combo,, you have to build accurate ammo to match the firearm. If done so,, even at distances, they can be VERY accurate.
A discussion recently about the distances people "test" their ammo or firearm etc,, and especially writers for gun rags,, revealed how the older standard has been reduced. A former employee of Ruger stated that when they used to test for accuracy, acceptable accuracy was approximately 1" per 25 yds. Now,, that was most likely when using a machine rest,, but still, it's an OLD standard. Many gun rag writers, or others who's skills are not very good, want to SELL their stories & such. So, they shorten the distances,, and call the guns "accurate" when in reality they can be very lacking.
A member here,, (David Bradshaw,) who has won a bunch of metallic silhouette matches,, shooting handguns,, will say a STARTING distance to determine a handgun's accuracy potential should be 25 yds, and go beyond that to really "test" a gun, a bullet, and a load. Bullet design also plays a lot in longer distance handgunning.

But to say a .9mm isn't capable of long distance accuracy,, or to use the phrase; "refrigerator sized groups" at distance,, should watch a lot of average Joe's shoot a USPSA match.

NO offense meant here,, just point out a different viewpoint of handgunning, and especially the .9mm.
Having been in this handgun game ~60 years, shooting NRA Precision Pistol, recently ASI action pistol, and 23 years of teaching Concealed Carry Handgun for NC, I use the 25 yard standard as a gage. My criterion for acceptable accuracy for my own personal defense is from a draw, 99% all rounds must be contained in an 8" x 10" typing paper. The rounds are shot in pairs, from repeated draws. The typing paper approximately represents the thoracic region of the body. I think that for defensive purposes, people get too worked up with the idea of shooting all A's, 10's, and X's when massive tissue destruction over a wider area is more effective. A gage of accuracy of a load and firearm combination at 25 yards maybe keeping 25-50 rounds in the black on a 25 yard slow fire pistol target. (Start from a rest and progress to Standing unsupported.) For "Short guns" the standard is shortened to 15 yards.
 

woodperson

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Knoxville, TN
I have a run of the mill 6.5" convertible in .357. It shoots the 9 mm just fine. Factory loads may be about the same accuracy in 9mm and .357. I have some .357 reloads that shoot better. Have not really worked on 9 mm accuracy loads. When I ran out of ammo when I was away from my reloader for 4 months last year it was nice to be able to afford some 9mm to shoot. .357 was pricey then. The 9 mm cylinder for the Ruger appears to be a good work of engineering and I believe the bullets expand enough in the throat to fit the bore. At least my cylinder has a reverse taper between the end of the bullet and the face of the cylinder of about .001" on all cylinders. All of the holes appear round and very well machined and finished.
 

Stantheman1986

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Agreed on most points, but I tend to practice at 25 yards with my handguns, with one exception; When in the woods at my mother-in-law’s place in the country in GA on the ATV or on foot I carry a Blackhawk or Vaquero in .45LC for “pest control” and have taken coyotes and bobcats with it out past 50 yards with pretty good results using Kentucky windage. As I’ve gotten older I’ve started to think about a .45LC carbine to put in a scabbard on the ATV for this purpose. Lo and behold, last week I ran across a color-case-hardened Henry at a LGS. It would look really good with my CCH Vaquero but it’s pricey!
I routinely shoot .44 cap and ballers to 50 yards, my Walkers to 100..... but the "75 yard zero" that is often debated helps a lot, because most of my percussion revolvers hit nearly 6-12" high at 25 by design . Plus I have time to actually take a fine bead without incoming lead throwing my aim off :)

25 yards is a good defensive "standard "

I have read about Police Officers back in the 1960s using 1911s to pin down bad guys at 100+ yards, or using .357 revolvers at long range and guys like Massad Ayoob and Elmer Keith, Bill Jordan etc. used to stress familiarization at 100 yards , and learning to move the base of the front blade up into the rear notch vs "holding over" .....but shooting your defensive handgun at a football fields length or shooting at dangerous game at 100 with a handgun is pretty much something none of us are likely to ever do and you probably have better odds of winning the Powerball twice than shooting a handgun at an armed threat at extreme range

My "gun bro" coworkers bust my stones about carrying stuff like NAA .22 Mag revolvers or even my .380 Glock 42 "at least carry a micro 9mm bro"

I'm like what do you think I'm actually trying to do here :) I'm not John Wick I'm a middle aged Dad trying to go shopping with my family. 7 shots of .380 in a small pistol with usually a spare mag is plenty of firepower for a grey man civilian . If I'm gonna have to shoot it will likely be "from the hip" or one handed at a few yards if for some reason staying in my lane isn't enough and I am assaulted randomly or some goblins like my car.
 
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needsmostuff

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Sep 4, 2008
Messages
447
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Tucson,AZ
"I don't have a 9mm revolver and probably never will But,,,,,,, I think your attitude is spot on for your expectations of the cartridge in a hand gun.
9mm never was designed or expected to shoot at distances. (Except maybe some tangent sighted military handgun/carbines and they were not much good at it)
Even the guys shooting the 9mm carbines with scopes and all are getting minute of refrigerator at long distance."

I have to respectfully disagree with the above.

Just last weekend,, I went to the USPSA Area 6 Regional competition match. I shot it,, AND worked it for 4 days. (It was 12 stages of fire,, with about 350 rounds required to complete the match.)
In the 12 stages of fire,, and often,, there were targets further than 10, or 15 yds. Plus,, not always at an optimal angle. I'd say that 90% of the guns used were .9mm. From revolvers to semi-auto's to PCC carbines.
I saw plenty of good solid accurate hits on targets,, including moving targets with all of these types of firearms.
Now,, add in the fact that everybody was trying to shoot as fast as they could, AND moving around etc,, the "A" zone area is harder to hit. It's approximately 6" wide by 12" tall. I saw plenty of targets with (2) hits, in the A zone,, that one paster (measuring approximately 1" square) could cover the 2 hits,, or a second paster was necessary, yet overlapping the 1st one.
MANY of the 9mm handguns, and PCC carbines are very capable at distances many feel are "too far."
Just like any caliber or ammo/firearm combo,, you have to build accurate ammo to match the firearm. If done so,, even at distances, they can be VERY accurate.
A discussion recently about the distances people "test" their ammo or firearm etc,, and especially writers for gun rags,, revealed how the older standard has been reduced. A former employee of Ruger stated that when they used to test for accuracy, acceptable accuracy was approximately 1" per 25 yds. Now,, that was most likely when using a machine rest,, but still, it's an OLD standard. Many gun rag writers, or others who's skills are not very good, want to SELL their stories & such. So, they shorten the distances,, and call the guns "accurate" when in reality they can be very lacking.
A member here,, (David Bradshaw,) who has won a bunch of metallic silhouette matches,, shooting handguns,, will say a STARTING distance to determine a handgun's accuracy potential should be 25 yds, and go beyond that to really "test" a gun, a bullet, and a load. Bullet design also plays a lot in longer distance handgunning.

But to say a .9mm isn't capable of long distance accuracy,, or to use the phrase; "refrigerator sized groups" at distance,, should watch a lot of average Joe's shoot a USPSA match.

NO offense meant here,, just point out a different viewpoint of handgunning, and especially the .9mm.
Well, I might respectfully point out , That goes in a lot of directions that have little to do with what I posted. :) Or the original post about a 9mm cyl. in a Blackhawk. :unsure:
Was 9mm designed for distance ? Nope, it was designed to cycle pistols with hardball ammo in defensive /combat guns.
Now with proper training , a well tuned pistol, better than average ammo and lots of practice YES , I'm sure it is accurate for USPSA matches. I can't say , never been to one.
But, distance is an ambiguous term in shooting, I will not cast aspersions on shooting at 25 yards. But it is just that 25 yards , distance is really just "way out there. I will not point out the right or wrong of shooting "a group" or "a zone" but they are different and both have purposes.
My point, before dissection was simple. The OP should feel comfortable with the results he is getting form his conversion cyl. in a gun NOT designed to be a 9mm.
You never see 9mm in any long distance competition . Yes sometimes it hits stuff a long way away but there are many better tools to be had for that.
My reference to "minute of refrigerator" is simply missed irony. But I have seen guys with 9mm carbines (usually sighted for 25yards) struggle to get on paper at 100 yards due to so much hold over being necessary.
 
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91B40

Bearcat
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
15
The only people who will care about what it left the factory as are the people who will be trying to sell it after I'm gone :) when someone tries to load a .38 or .357 and it doesn't chamber, they will be aware it is a 9mm .

It only has a 9mm cylinder so it's a 9mm, it no longer has any ability to convert. I could send it to Ruger for fitting of another .357 cylinder, but given that I have other options to shoot .357 I'd never bother with it . Proper nomenclature really only matters if it's something rare or someone is trying to sell a gun.

I also have a .45 ACP Vaquero. I have not and won't use the LC cylinder, I have no need. I have fired 1000s of rounds of .45 ACP through it so it is my .45 ACP Vaquero. When I think to myself "what should I take to the range " I'm not like "I'll grab my .45 Long Colt / .45 ACP Convertible stainless 5.5" New Vaquero" , I'm like "I'll roll with the .45 ACP Vaquero"
I have a Vaquero sheriff model .45 Colt. I scrounged a .45 ACP cylinder and had it fitted to the gun by Pisco Gunsmithing. Mostly, I shoot it with the auto cartridge, but I carry it with medium hot Colt loads when out in the woods. Funny thing, the points of impact are about the same for either cartridge.
 

Stantheman1986

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I have a Vaquero sheriff model .45 Colt. I scrounged a .45 ACP cylinder and had it fitted to the gun by Pisco Gunsmithing. Mostly, I shoot it with the auto cartridge, but I carry it with medium hot Colt loads when out in the woods. Funny thing, the points of impact are about the same for either cartridge.
My .45 convertible Vaquero is so dead on with ACP that I took it to a "meat shoot" and was winning so much I just started letting the 2nd best person take the turkey or gift card

Not because I'm any kind of great shot, but the edge of the hole closest to the X wins , and almost everyone shoots .22 pistols like MkIV Target models with dots on them . I was just making big .45 holes at 15 yards and that gun will put them right where the sights look.

On the one occasion I did fire .45 LC through it , it was dead nuts with that too

Just for fun, since I've now Loc Tited the sight screws on the Bowen sight, on my convertible. 357/ 9mm Blackhawk....I'll have to put some .357 through it and see how close to the 9mm zero it hits.
 

Thumbcocker

Blackhawk
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Aug 8, 2010
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Sounthern Illinois
I don't have a 9mm revolver and probably never will But,,,,,,, I think your attitude is spot on for your expectations of the cartridge in a hand gun.
9mm never was designed or expected to shoot at distances. (Except maybe some tangent sighted military handgun/carbines and they were not much good at it)
Even the guys shooting the 9mm carbines with scopes and all are getting minute of refrigerator at long distance.
The 9mm cartridge properly loaded and in a properly dimensioned gun is as accurate as any other cartridge. 50 and 100 yard hits on standard size clay pigeons is entirely doable. Elmer Keith praised the 9mm as a flat shooting cartridge.

The problem is that many 9mm barrels and chambers, especially European ones, run oversize. Also 9mm ammo is all over the place on quality. I shoot cast exclusively in 9mm and have a couple of semiautomatic that are death on clay birds at 100 yards. Load development and bullet diamater are crucial.

In a Blackhawk convertible the same loads do fair at 50 yards. The bullets are sized .358 and the cylinder mouths have been honed to. 3585. Also the sharp edge on the heads pacing areas of the chambers have been smoothed to eliminate lead shaving.

Here is a 25 yard group shot Weaver from 25 yards with the 9mm cylinder. Nothing to write home about but tolerable. A think it could be tightened up playing wit seating depth, brass sorting, and other skullduggery. Power pistol has been my go to in 9mm.
 

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needsmostuff

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Here is a 25 yard group shot Weaver from 25 yards with the 9mm cylinder. Nothing to write home about but tolerable. A think it could be tightened up playing wit seating depth, brass sorting, and other skullduggery. Power pistol has been my go to in 9mm.
Absolutely tolerable to the point of just fine but,,,,,,,, The question is, would it be tighter or easier to "tighten up " with the 38/357 cyl in there .
 
Joined
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Texas
I have a 9mm / .357 convertible and I often use both cylinders. I've never considered its use with 9mm to be anything besides a convenience / emergency / way-to-use-less-expensive-ammo feature because of the mismatch of .355" bullets in a .357" bore. Certainly jacketed bullets can sometimes perform fairly well in the case of a slightly undersize bullet, but no matter what it is sub-optimum.
 

Stantheman1986

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The .45 ACP convertibles do way better and are honestly way more fun. Those short, fat bullets load easy and quick. And at 15 I was cutting ragged holes, at 25 two handed I was shooting golf ball sized groups if I did my part, and this target was shot one handed at 25 with 2 cylinders one handed which landed near the bull

It just costs almost double per bang vs 9mm

It hits where you put the sights if you do your part , way better than my 357/9 convertibles but I have room in my heart for them all
 

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