45 LC in a 454 Casull Cylinder

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Ride1949

Blackhawk
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Wrong again vlavalle. Rclark has it right. The NM .45 Colt Blackhawk Flattop(look at the roll mark on the left side of your Flattop convertible and you will see Blackhawk) is made on the medium sized frame. Because of this the cylinder window is smaller which means the cylinder is smaller. Due to this the cylinder walls on the NM .45 Colt Blackhawk Flattop are thinner. (The.45 Colt is a big cartridge. In order to fit it in the smaller cylinder, the cylinder walls are thinner.) It has nothing to do with the top strap. The only difference in the design of the frames (other than over all size) are the ears for sight protection. Some folks have even been known to machine off the ears to make a large frame Flattop. Do a search on here and you'll find this has been discussed before on this forum and the cylinders and frames have been measured with machinists calipers for both cylinder walls and overall cylinder size. If I recall correctly the OM Blackhawk flattops were built on the large frame. It was in these guns that the Ruger Only loads were developed.
 
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seasterl

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My apologies for any confusion. Let’s be clear that Ruger-only loads are for the larger of the two cylinder Ruger makes that are typically found in the large-frame single-action revolvers. By “convertible” I was not referring to a small frame (or small cylinder) but the larger of the two. For example, I added a 45ACP cylinder to my large-frame 45Colt, so that’s what I was referring to by my use of convertible. It allows me to shoot Ruger-only loads or swap in my 45ACP and enjoy bulk ammo with still excellent accuracy.
 

Rclark

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Again, yes a bit thinner frame, so? ... But it is all about what the 'cylinder' can handle. The frame is plenty strong. I'll leave it at that.

If I recall correctly the OM Blackhawk flattops were built on the large frame.
In OM .44 Magnum flattop. The OM .357s (flattop and the ones with ears around rear sight) are on the medium frame. The .45 Colt OM (these are not flattops) are on the large frame.
 

G2

Hunter
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I found it interesting that when the New Model Flattop was reintroduced the top strap was thicker than the Old Model top strap
OM vs NM
357- .215 vs .245
44- .235 vs .265
 
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Ride1949

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Again, yes a bit thinner frame, so? ... But it is all about what the 'cylinder' can handle. The frame is plenty strong. I'll leave it at that.


In OM .44 Magnum flattop. The OM .357s (flattop and the ones with ears around rear sight) are on the medium frame. The .45 Colt OM (these are not flattops) are on the large frame.
Read the rest of the post. I'm agreeing with you on the cylinder size and strength. Bigger frame = Bigger cylinder window = bigger cylinder = thicker cylinder walls. That was was the point I was trying to make. i have no issue with the top strap thickness or frame strength.
 
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Ride1949

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My apologies for any confusion. Let’s be clear that Ruger-only loads are for the larger of the two cylinder Ruger makes that are typically found in the large-frame single-action revolvers. By “convertible” I was not referring to a small frame (or small cylinder) but the larger of the two. For example, I added a 45ACP cylinder to my large-frame 45Colt, so that’s what I was referring to by my use of convertible. It allows me to shoot Ruger-only loads or swap in my 45ACP and enjoy bulk ammo with still excellent accuracy.
No confusion on my part. My first post was information on the NM Flattops. I bought both of mine as convertibles so both cylinders were included. The Fatttop was a first run of 500 Lipseys special offering. The standard convertible was as offered by Ruger. My second post was in response to vlavalle's concerning the top strap thickness.
 
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vlavalle

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Wrong again vlavalle. Rclark has it right. The NM .45 Colt Blackhawk Flattop(look at the roll mark on the left side of your Flattop convertible and you will see Blackhawk) is made on the medium sized frame. Because of this the cylinder window is smaller which means the cylinder is smaller. Due to this the cylinder walls on the NM .45 Colt Blackhawk Flattop are thinner. (The.45 Colt is a big cartridge. In order to fit it in the smaller cylinder, the cylinder walls are thinner.) It has nothing to do with the top strap. The only difference in the design of the frames (other than over all size) are the ears for sight protection. Some folks have even been known to machine off the ears to make a large frame Flattop. Do a search on here and you'll find this has been discussed before on this forum and the cylinders and frames have been measured with machinists calipers for both cylinder walls and overall cylinder size. If I recall correctly the OM Blackhawk flattops were built on the large frame. It was in these guns that the Ruger Only loads were developed.
Well, your explanation makes sense, but then I was misled by Ruger when I originally contacted them about being able to shot the highest powered .45 LC ammo when I first got the gun (~2014). Buffalo Bore (who makes this very high powered .45LC ammo) does call the Ruger Flattop .45 as a 'medium' sized frame, and not to shoot their real high powered ammo in it, but Ruger said otherwise. Of course, Ruger's answer did not explain anything about why I should not shoot that ammo, and did say that there was only one frame for the .45LC Blackhawk. Of course, it is possible I misunderstood them, but I was quite explicit, so I do not think so. I suspect that whomever answered me was not aware of there being two different size frames for the Ruger .45 Colt, nor the implications.

My gun is from Lipsys, and that might be part of the problem with 'faulty' info from Ruger. I am sure glad Buffalo Bore had those disclaimers on the .45LC ammo pages. Of course, I have no way of examining any differences since I own only the one Ruger .45 Colt, and it is the Flattop' Convertible. By the way, I do love the convertible capability so I can shoot 45ACP as well. So, thanks for your info and response.

Do you know if there is a full sized frame Ruger .45 Colt that is also a convertible and that can also shoot .45ACP ammo with a cylinder swap?
 

Ride1949

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Do you know if there is a full sized frame Ruger .45 Colt that is also a convertible and that can also shoot .45ACP ammo with a cylinder swap?
I showed one (blued) in the picture above. I'm glad my information was helpful to you.
As a side note the blued convertible shown was sent back to Ruger due to a poorly fitted grip frame, frame itself warped at the pins, and a terrible job on the bluing. They quickly sent a replacement with no argument. I love Ruger's customer service.
 
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Rclark

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Do you know if there is a full sized frame Ruger .45 Colt that is also a convertible and that can also shoot .45ACP ammo with a cylinder swap?
Yes, Ruger offered them off and on through the years. Then too there were exclusives offered as well.
 

Onty

Single-Sixer
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Dec 17, 2000
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I'd recommend that you NOT download H110.

IMR 4227 is a good powder in those calibers.

A spare cylinder is an option, and as noted,, must be a match, chamber wise to your gun.

I shoot .45 Colt in my .454,, but I found a better way. I use 454 brass,, LOADED to .45 Colt specs for my reduced loads. No extra cleaning,, and I can use the same cylinder for both calibers. No need for the added expense of the spare cylinder.
I would like to warn about possible problem using 4227, even in "Ruger only" loads. I had 45 Colt Bisley, with 2 cylinders for 45 Colt. One has a cylinder gap about .006", and everything was fine. However, another fluted cylinder, had a gap smaller than .002", I could barely see the light, and in 50% cases bird seed from 4227 will lock the cylinder, preventing it from rotation.

Apparently, some kind of filler was used in manufacturing process of 4227, and that creates problem. I cannot understand why they cannot resolve this issue reformulating that powder, to get rid of birdseed and nuisance it creates. Somewhere I found that some smiths don't want to build custom hunting revolvers with very small cylinder gap, and insist on gap .004-.006"
 

Hondo44

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Hondo, would it make any difference with the 454 cylinder being a 5 shot and normal 45 LC cylinders being 6 shot as far as indexing and timing?
I have never had a problem with cyl timing when the cyls are only one chamber difference in number; five to six or six to five. The cyl hand (pawl) is forgiving. There's enough tolerance to work with both cyls. Worse case scenario a slight fitting of the lower notch on the hand can be done to work with both cyls. But in many cyl swaps I've done, I've never needed to.

The one possible minor issue of adding a 45 Colt cyl would be the overall length of the cyl that you find. It might be a hair too long for your 454 frame. But that's simply remedied by a few file strokes off of the center hub at the front of the cyl.
 
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I added a pair of Hogue black micarta grips today. They fit so much better than the stock grips. I only wish Hogue wouldn’t have used brass hardware.
 

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I’ve been working with Unique this morning with the Matt’s Bullets 260 and 305. I’ve basically settled on 12.0 grains with the 305 in 454 cases. I’ll have to dig the chrono out but I’m going to see what I get with IMR 4227 next.
The unique doesn’t meter that well but it’s manageable and it’s comfortable to shoot. I worked from 10.0 to 14.0. I’ll save the 45 long colt cases for my next Blackhawk.
 

Bear Paw Jack

Hawkeye
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Alaska, Idaho USA
I'd recommend that you NOT download H110.

IMR 4227 is a good powder in those calibers.

A spare cylinder is an option, and as noted,, must be a match, chamber wise to your gun.

I shoot .45 Colt in my .454,, but I found a better way. I use 454 brass,, LOADED to .45 Colt specs for my reduced loads. No extra cleaning,, and I can use the same cylinder for both calibers. No need for the added expense of the spare cylinder.
I agree with Contender. I've had a couple of Ruger's 454's and they are good guns, Will be no problems shooting 45 Colt loads and there are a LOT of good powders that work for that. I like 2400. I do think using 454 brass is a good idea, unless you are going to feel a need to shoot both rounds through your gun and it can get confusing. I also agree with John Limbaugh that a good 45 Colt load will pretty much handle anything in North America. Tim Sundles from Buffalo Bore agrees with that. I sold both 454's as they are too heavy. I've had more than a couple of Ruger Alaskans and only shoot Buffalo Bore heavy 45 Colt cast loads. Not sure of your plans for your gun, but Taffin has paid a high price of shooting those heavy beasts through his life. The torque with that load is hard on the wrists.
 

SLG

Bearcat
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Sep 18, 2022
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Midwest
I shoot 45C exclusively through my 454 SRH. Enough power for anything, and that gun shoots like a rifle.
 

jyo

Bearcat
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Jan 5, 2011
Messages
70
I have two Freedom Arms 454s---one 6 1/2" and one 4 3/4"---shoot 300 grain hard cast LFP bullets over 10 grains of Unique as a plinking load in 454 brass...
 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Dallas, TX.
I have two Freedom Arms 454s---one 6 1/2" and one 4 3/4"---shoot 300 grain hard cast LFP bullets over 10 grains of Unique as a plinking load in 454 brass...
I ran unique from 10.0 to 14.0 and settled on 12.0
I really like IMR 4227. It meters very good in my Harrells dispenser and pretty much fills the case behind a 305 SWC.
 

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