45 colt +P vs 44mag ?

[demo_slug]

I've shot a boat load of 45 long colt +P. but, I've never shot a 44mag. A guy I was shooting with the other day said that the kick of my 45 colt +p didn't come close to the kick of a 44mag with standard factory magnum ammo.

I've shot
300gr, 1325 fps 45 colt from buffalo Bore
250 XTP, 26grs h110, my hand loads.

is it true?

got this load data. from hodgdon site. similar weight and velocity. took more powder to do it. but looks real similar.

44mag, 240 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon H110 .429" 24.0 1522

45colt, 240 GR. SIE JHC Hodgdon H110 .452" 28.0 1532

 

[dougader]

they're close IMO. The 45 Colt "+P" runs about 32k psi and the 44 mag loaded up runs 36k psi.

 

[flatgate]

I've always appreciated John Linebaugh's approach to this situation.

Click Here

flatgate

 

[Stoots]

I've always appreciated John Linebaugh's approach to this situation.

Click Here

flatgate

Thanks for that link Carl!

Great info!

:wink:

 

[Heliman]

I have fired both chamberings with hot loads, but well within safe pressures. Can't tell a licks difference. My 2 cents.....

Dave

 

[CraigC]

A guy I was shooting with the other day said that the kick of my 45 colt +p didn't come close to the kick of a 44mag with standard factory magnum ammo.

This gets repeated quite often but IMHO, it's complete hogwash. You push similar bullets at similar velocities with the same powders and recoil will be comparable. This is wishful thinking on the part of .45Colt true-believers.

 

[demo_slug]

I don't understand. did you type that backwards?

A guy I was shooting with the other day said that the kick of my 45 colt +p didn't come close to the kick of a 44mag with standard factory magnum ammo.

This gets repeated quite often but IMHO, it's complete hogwash. You push similar bullets at similar velocities with the same powders and recoil will be comparable. This is wishful thinking on the part of .45Colt true-believers.

 

[Bkat]

In his article Linebaugh stresses that his pressure data and guidelines apply only to New Model Bisleys and Blackhawks. Are the original Vaquero frames and cylinders as strong as Blackhawks and can they be loaded to the same thresholds as Blackhawks?

Bkat

 

[Dale53]

John Linebaugh stresses that revolver failures start with the cylinder. Vaquero cylinders are the same as Black Hawk cylinders (I have both). So, the short answer is the Vaquero is the same strength level as the Black Hawk.

The NEW Vaquero has a smaller diameter cylinder and should never be used with the "Ruger only" loads. This one is SAAMI only.

Dale53

 

[deac45]

One can do the math all day on recoil and still not come up with any thing solid. True, same bullet weight, same velocity, same powder, similar charge weights fired from similar weight guns will give you "x" amount of recoil impulse. Here's a link that is fun to play around with...

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

What it will not tell you is that intangible factor of how that recoil is perceived by the shooter. For me, I perceive a heavy 44 to have a bit snappier feel than a similar 45. But then, muzzel blast and concussion bother me more than what is felt in the hand. Lay out a 357, a 44 and a heavy 45 on the bench and I'll pick up the 45 first and the 44 second.
So when people ask me what the difference in recoil is between a 44 and a heavy 45 I say they are the same...but different.

deac45

 

[Bkat]

Thanks Dale.

Bkat

 

[VAdoublegunner]

I think that claim was largely bs, but I do sense a slight difference. I think the muzzle blast is much more noticeable in the 44 Mag, probably due to the higher pressure creating more of a sonic wave amplitude, therefore it "seems" to be a bigger thing happening. In actuality, I don't think there is a whole lot of felt difference in impulse momentum, but the 45 Colt seems gentler.

If you can shoot those 45 Colt loads, you certainly won't have any trouble with most factory 44 Mags!

 

[Axehandle]

Taking it to an extreme but this reminds me of shooting max load 350 and 500 grain bullets out of a 500 S&W... My first impression was that the 350s were a bit more... After shooting a few rounds it became quickly obvious that the 500 was a HAMMER... The 350 was a bunch of hot air!

 

[pisgah]

Without doing the math, I will say that although the two are very close, there is, to me, a subjective difference. The .45 seems to me to be just slightly less brutal than the .44. The .44 feels just a bit more abrupt and the muzzle blast noticeably sharper, somehow. the .45 feels somehow a little more like a massive, fast shove.

Having said that, I know someone else will shoot them and reach eaxctly the opposite opinion -- and they'll be just as right (or wrong) as I am.

 

[CraigC]

I don't understand. did you type that backwards?

Uh, what???

To reiterate, I've never been able to tell the difference between the two, shooting a virtual matched pair of custom 4 5/8" Bisleys.

 

[WESHOOT2]

Without doing the math, I will say that although the two are very close, there is, to me, a subjective difference. The .45 seems to me to be just slightly less brutal than the .44. The .44 feels just a bit more abrupt and the muzzle blast noticeably sharper, somehow. the .45 feels somehow a little more like a massive, fast shove.

Having said that, I know someone else will shoot them and reach eaxctly the opposite opinion -- and they'll be just as right (or wrong) as I am.

....why I still own the 44:

Had a matched pair of 5.5" Redhawks (still have the 44 :shock: ) and I, too, found similar loads to 'feel' less severe in the 45 (bolt head thrust?).

That said, when loading 335g-and-up to horrendously stupid levels in the 45 Colt version , recoil became significantly greater than ANY loads I could develop for the 44 version.




three wrist and two elbow surgeries later......

 

[Anonymous]

I've always appreciated John Linebaugh's approach to this situation.

Click Here

flatgate

So do I.

While I understand that proper placement in a handgun is a lot more diffiicult than with a rifle, there in no question in my mind about either the 44 Mg, OR the .45 LC will do the trick on deer or black bear. Now, i think it would be foolish to hunt grizzles with either one absent a good backup, but as protection in bear country, either one beats the HELL out of climbing a tree

 

[Bucks Owin]

I've always appreciated John Linebaugh's approach to this situation.

Click Here

flatgate

My sentiments exactly amigo. Any Linebaugh load I've duplicated has been right on the money velocity wise and my .45 BH hasn't come unglued yet! :wink: As to the ."43" vs .45 recoil, I can't tell much difference between the two when loaded for serious thump...I think John has that right too though, the old Colt is a "bigger hammer"... :wink:

 

[TiteGroups]

Recoil increases to the square of the bullet weight, all else being equal, which it is fairly close. The more the "plug" in the barrel weighs, the more force needed to push it out the end.

 

[demo_slug]

This is wishful thinking on the part of .45Colt true-believers.

this was the part that made no sense. re read the original post.

I will somerize my original post, this was a 44mag guy telling a 45colt guy (me) that 44 has the biggest bang. and 45 guy saying that they should be pretty similar. and the 44mag guy saying no way. so I posted on the interweb.

if you honestly can't tell the difference between the 2 calibers. then you'd be siding with the 45 guy. so you got it backwards. it was wishfull thinking of a .44mag true-believer. not the other way around.