.45 Colt”plinking” ammo- lead vs. jacketed bullets

[Uncle Howie]

Hello, all- I primarily shoot .22 LR. When I shoot centerfire pistol, it's usually jacketed rounds in a .40 S&W.

I'm thinking strongly about scratching an itch for a New Vaquero in .45 Colt. It would be for occasional plinking, no other plans at this time. (It seems like a man ought to have a single action in .45 Colt!) 8)

I've been doing some reading about lead vs. jacketed bullets, cylinder throat measurements (and reaming), etc.

IF I'm plinking with mild loads, and IF the revolver does NOT have tight throats- is there any practical difference (besides cost) in shooting jacketed vs. lead bullets?

I assumed that .45 Colt ammo loaded with lead bullets would automatically be cheaper than ammo with jacketed bullets. I'm finding that's not necessarily the case- FMJ is sometimes cheaper than a similar lead bullet load from same manufacturer. (That big chunk of raw lead does speak to my inner cowboy...)

Thanks for helping educate a relative newcomer to centerfire revolver shooting!

 

[sixshot]

Well you're taking the plunge so why only get your feet wet, jump all he way in the water! The only way you can keep the new Vaquero happy is to feed it & the only way to do that is to reload. Now we're talking, right! You might have to buy a few boxes of factory to get started but after a while that's going to start hurting, remember you want to shoot that thing, not look at it.

There is an initial cost in getting starting but it's a life time investment so get a good RCBS Rockchucker or similar quality press, a set of dies, a shell holder, scale & a powder measure & save that brass that most people leave on the ground or in the grass & then you can buy you some decent cast bullets & start getting used to that grand six
gun you just bought. You can tailor you loads up or down to suit you, buy different weight bullets & experiment with powders, primers, brands of bullets, etc. It's a whole different hobby in itself. You'll love it!

Dick

 

[Uncle Howie]

Well you're taking the plunge so why only get your feet wet, jump all he way in the water! The only way you can keep the new Vaquero happy is to feed it & the only way to do that is to reload. Now we're talking, right! You might have to buy a few boxes of factory to get started but after a while that's going to start hurting, remember you want to shoot that thing, not look at it.

There is an initial cost in getting starting but it's a life time investment so get a good RCBS Rockchucker or similar quality press, a set of dies, a shell holder, scale & a powder measure & save that brass that most people leave on the ground or in the grass & then you can buy you some decent cast bullets & start getting used to that grand six
gun you just bought. You can tailor you loads up or down to suit you, buy different weight bullets & experiment with powders, primers, brands of bullets, etc. It's a whole different hobby in itself. You'll love it!

Dick

Well, the RugerForum reputation for being full of enablers remains intact! :mrgreen:

Reloading IS in the long-term plan. I've reloaded lots of shotshells, cast round balls, made blackpowder lube.

Metallic cartridges will eventually be part of the natural progression!

 

[contender]

I agree whole heartily with sixshot.

I'll add another little tidbit he didn't mention.
Traditional cast lead bullets are lubed to help seal the slug as it lumbers down the barrel. And it gives off a smoke etc when fired. Plus,, your concerns about throats, reaming, mild loads etc,,, are often a result of different things. Some guns in .45 Colt are cut right & don't need any work. Others,, enjoy the MINOR adjustment of having the throats reamed to a uniform size. (It's not an issue to ship a cylinder to a few guys to do the work,, and not expensive.) Lead does prefer a proper throat, and bore measurement. Otherwise,, in general,, you could possibly get "leading" in the barrel.
One thing sixshot, myself, and MANY, MANY other bullet casters have found is the powder coated lead bullets. From mild to wild (with respect to lead bullets,) leading is almost a non-issue using PCed bullets. And the smoke associated with lube on lead burning & such, is greatly reduced.

Go ahead,, invest in reloading equipment. BUY THE BOOKS FIRST!!!!!! Read a few reloading manuals first,, and those things are THE most important reloading item you can buy.
Then, buy quality equipment,, (as noted above,) and you will truly enjoy plinking AND reloading that grand old caliber!

 

[mikld]

If you're buying bullets then yes, lead is cheaper. But hints for shooting lead; Don't buy into the "harder is better" thinking. Commercial casters are making bullets way too hard succumbing to the "hard cast" idea (this newer term really doesn't mean anything and from what I remember it just started 10-12 years ago when some were trying to differentiate between swaged and cast lead bullets and commercial casters started giving new lead shooters what they think they want. 10-14 BHN is plenty good for 90% of cast bullet handgun shooting). Good shooting lead bullets fit the gun. Most commercial casters only sell one diameter per caliber and are often too small. Purchase or size your bullets to the same diameter as the cylinder throats (measure throats and groove diameter to make sure throats are larger than groove diameter). If you purchase cast bullets make sure they are a good hardness for handguns, find a vendor that has the size you need and you'll have a good start shooting cast bullets. None of these things are insurmountable and yes it is a little more involved than using jacketed, but I cast and shoot lead bullets maybe 50-1 over jacketed and the satisfaction factor is 100 times higher than reloading and shooting jacketed...

A single action 45 Colt "needs" lead bullets 'cause it just doesn't seem right for a SAA to use "condom bullets". I only have several hundred rounds through my SAA clone and it has never fired a jacketed bullet since I got it.

For a ton of info on all aspects cast lead bullets, Q and A, go here; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

 

[woodperson]

Sounds like a bucket of Bayou coated bullets and a jug of Trail Boss would set you up perfectly for what you want. That is what I run a lot in my .41 mag.

Some lead bullets cost a lot more than jacketed bullets. Pretty much all of them in Midway, for example. I think making the swaged jacket is a lot cheaper than actually casting a bullet.

I do not often buy loaded ammo. I looked at some cowboy action loads in .45 colt when I was thinking about a conversion cylinder and the loaded 'cowboy" ammo looked very expensive.

One great advantage to lead or coated or plated bullets is that they can be loaded to lower velocities than jacket bullets. So you are going to have a lot more recoil with the cheaper jacketed bullet loads, I think.

 

[Paul B]

Well, this is my not very humble two cents worth but seeing as I have been shooting cast bullets in rifles and handguns since 1954 maybe what I say may help make a decision. First, a properly sized bullet for the gun is essential not only for accuracy but reduces the chance of leading. I run home cast bullets for 9MM .38 Spl., .357 Mag. 44 Spl. and .44mag. .45 ACP and .45 Colt. Disregarding the 9MM I've found that for the .38 Spl. and .357 Mag. a bullet sized at .359" will usually work quite well For the .44 Spl. and Mag. .432" works, at least in my guns so chambered. The wise move once you get the gun you want would be to slug the barrel and cylinder throats to see just what you have. It's OK if he cylinder throats are large than the groove diameter but bad news if the other way around. Most of my Ruger Blackhawks.Super Blackhawks run .452" groove diameter and 454" cylinder throats which works out just fine. On a single action Colt I have the throats run .460" and the bore .454" but it's a gun made in 1908.
How important is sizing? Well if the cylinder throats are smaller than the groove diameter the bullet will be sized down and be a sloppy fit in the bore and will likely lead like hell. On the other hand proper fit can/will allow you to run a softer alloy, sometimes much softer. A while back I loaded up a box of full power .357 Mag. ammo for a friend. Later I noticed I had used the wrong bullets that were intended for light loads in the .38. I called him up and told him what happened and he came back with he's already shot them up and they shot just fine. He thought they were some of the most accurate bullets he'd ever shot and no leading. We, I had to see for myself so loaded up a box and went shooting. They shot accurately and he was right, no sign of lead in the barrel. For the record that alloy has a BHN level of 8. Pure lead is IIRC 5. My preference for the .357and .44 is a BHN level of 11. Works in the Colt 45 very nicely. You can get level 11 metal from plain old wheel weights.
Most of the time my shooting Colt .45 ammo is in a Ruger Bisley Super Blackhawk which I load up to .44 Mag. level loads. For the standard Colt single action and it's clones I run a much lighter load, usually about 8.0 gr. of Unique and a 250 gr. semiwadcutter for about 850 FPS.
Bullet casting is a lot of fun. I would guess that I probably shoot 50 or more cast lead loads for evey jacleted bullet in rifles alone. I shoot nothing but my home cast bullets in all my handguns with the exception of factory ammo in my self defense gins. Personally I'd just as soon scrap the factory stuff and trust my handloads, but that's just me.
Paul B.

 

[Johnnu2]

I try to keep things simple ... I've been shooting my favorite caliber (.45 Colt) most of my life (thanks to Hoppy, Roy, Gene, et al). Yes, I reload and recommend it as the only cost effective way to shoot the big .45. However, I feed all of mine whatever lead slugs I can get at a reasonable price. I don't cast, & don't pay much attention to sizing in this cartridge because I can hit the plates at 25 yds every time. It likes Unique (for the past 40-50 years) and has become accustomed to Trail Boss for the 'gentler' side of me in recent years. Leading...? Never really worried about it, I just scrub the bores with whatever I have available; I don't worry about damaging the bores much either.... they have (so far) outlasted me, and I expect they will continue to do so if I just keep them clean and somewhat lubed. I have found that I own a couple of .45 Colt guns that just don't lead no matter what I feed them.... God has indeed said 'YES' to my quest for mediocrity. So, my advice to you is definitely reload, don't get too anal, and shoot the snot outta that .45 with LEAD, the way it was meant to be fed.... GOOD SHOOTING.
J

 

[Rclark]

I don't think any of my .45 Colt revolvers have seen a jacketed bullet. or any other of my revolvers for that matter. Wait yes, the .44 Magnum when I first got one saw some jacketed reloads back in the 80s. Same with the .357 back then. When I first reloaded, it seemed to me the going 'advice' was that you need to shoot jacketed... Don't get me wrong that worked ... But I found out later that just isn't so....even in the magnum cartridges. Imagine that... As for cleaning, must times I'll just pass a wet patch down the bore, and then a couple dry. That's it. Not to say, I haven't experienced leading. I have. Sometimes it took a cylinder throat reaming. Sometimes fire-lapping. But once dimensions were right, it was all good. BHN of the bullets I use are in the 12 to 15 range.

 

[Mobuck]

I shot a large number of "swaged" lead bullets through 38's. They didn't 'lead" the barrel any worse than "hard cast".
FWIW a swaged lead HP at modest velocity makes a dandy vermin load.

 

[Mus408]

I like the coated 250-255 gr. bullets from Missouri Bullets and 8-9 gr. of Unique for all my standard Colt loads...revolver or rifle!

 

[Uncle Howie]

"Well, now you've done it!"

I figured I owed folks an update. I bought 500 rounds of light "Cowboy" loads (200 grain lead). It's loaded in new Starline brass, so I should have a real nice collection of consistent, quality brass as I empty the current loading!

I've got an older Speer manual that I've been looking at occasionally for years. I've supplemented that with Hornady's 9th edition reloading handbook, Lee's Modern Reloading (Second Edition), and a couple of "how to" books, with little or no load recipes.

I recently spent some time with a friend who's been reloading for many years. We talked "all things reloading," looked at a bunch of his different presses, etc. I loaded some .45 ACP ammo under his tutelage, using a Lee Classic Turret press. I had a chance to get a "feel" for it, on equipment that was already set up properly.

It seems like Lee equipment is often a "love it or hate it" type proposition. He seems to like it in general, but he owns presses and equipment from a number of makers. As he says, "I've got nothing against Lee."

I ended up ordering a Lee Classic Turret starter kit from Brownell's, plus a Lee 4-die set, and a couple other odds and ends. My buddy doesn't care for the Lee scale, but I figure it will do fine for starters.

Sounds like a bucket of Bayou coated bullets and a jug of Trail Boss would set you up perfectly for what you want.

woodsperson- your advice sounded so good, I ordered up some components. Actually, your advice seemed to mirror a lot of info I was reading. I got 100 Bayou Bullets each, in 200/250/300-grain weights. I also ordered up a big jug of Trail Boss, after doing a bunch of reading on it. Sounds like I should be ready for lots of fun!

Since I was going to pay a HazMat fee for shipping powder, I figured I might as well order some primers. Checked with another buddy, ordered a bunch of primers for each of us. We're going to split the HazMat fee, so I save a little bit, there.

Even with all this excitement, I probably won't be loading until late summer. Lots of other irons in the fire, right now!

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions, support, etc.!

 

[Yankee_Papa]

For plinking with my 4⅝" Old Model Ruger Vaquero in 45 Colt I use 230 gr copper-plated or moly-coated round nose or HP bullets. These are the same bullets I use for practice with my 45 ACPs: a Talo Vaquero, a Springfield 1911, and an M&P Shield. I also use them with a Rossi 20" Lever action in 45 Colt. I push them to 725 fps - 1500 fps.

My 45 Colt plinking load is:

230 gr copper-plated or moly-coated round nose or HP bullets, or
cast bullets using Lee mold TL 452-230-2R (enamel coating)
6.0 gr Bullseye
#300 CCI primer
1.600" OAL
½ turn crimp LFCD