.45 ACP in a single action?

[olyinaz]

Stupid question but the only way I'm ever going to figure it out is if I ask so here goes!

Regarding .45 ACP in a single actions (I have a Montado in .45 Colt) - what do conversion cylinders head space off of? I'm familiar with how double action revolvers use moon clips to hold auto rounds in thier cylinders and since their cylinders flip out it's pretty obvious how that works well (even to a dummy like me), but how does it work with a single action revolver?

And finally, can someone recommend a good source for a polished stainless .45 ACP cylinder for my Montado?

Thanks,
Oly

 

[Jeff H]

The single action convertibles have a counter bore to the correct depth of the brass so the cartridge can only be pushed in so far. I have no idea is this is available for the Montado

 

[Bigboreshooter]

Since single action revolvers eject cases from only one chamber at a time, there is no need for moon clips.

The 45 ACP round headspaces on the mouth of the cartridge case, just as it does in a semi-auto. The cylinder chambers are milled with a "ledge" for the ACP cartridge to headspace on. If you look into the chambers, you can see it.

 

[TDF]

Some of the early Colt double actions were built so that they absolutely had to have the moon clips to operate but the Smith and Wesson's and the later colts fire just fine without the moon clips. The cases head space on the ledge inside the cylinder just like they do in a single action, (just like they do in a semi automatic). The moon clips on those guns are just there for ejecting the cases, other wise the extractor doesn't have anything to catch on. A single action with it's ejector rod doesn't need a rim to catch on as it pushes on the inside of the case.

TDF

 

[olyinaz]

Thanks guys, I figured that was the case (no pun). :roll:

I'd still love to hear from anyone who has a good suggestion re. a cylinder for the Montado (New Vaquero).

Best,
Oly

 

[Anonymous]

And finally, can someone recommend a good source for a polished stainless .45 ACP cylinder for my Montado?

Get yourself a hunk of steel...and start whittling. :wink:

 

[Dale53]

>>>Some of the early Colt double actions were built so that they absolutely had to have the moon clips to operate but the Smith and Wesson's and the later colts fire just fine without the moon clips. The cases head space on the ledge inside the cylinder just like they do in a single action, (just like they do in a semi automatic).<<<

Not necessarily so. Newer S&W's are NOT designed to headspace on the case mouth but are designed to headspace on the full moon clips. There apparently was quite a controversy at the factory over this decision but the factory decision was to require full moon clips to head space the cartridges properly with the newer guns.

One of my 625's will work without the moon clips but the headspace appears excessive. My other will not reliably fire the ACP's without clips.

None of this bothers me. I shoot ACP's with clips and if I want to shoot without clips I use my Starline .45 Auto Rim cases. What I do know, is that these are two of the most accurate revolvers I own and THAT pleases me to no end.

As an aside:
I require tools to use the full moon clips. I use a RE-MOONER (the "Unique" tool) from:

http://www.demooner.com/prodtype.asp?PT ... istory=cat

While this also works well for de-mooning I prefer the $17.00 (pliers type) further down the page for "De-mooning". These demoon two cases at once without danger of case or clip damage.

For range use it is hard to beat the Polymer RIMZ clips that allow you to EASILY use WITHOUT tools.

These days, I find myself using Starline .45 Auto Rim cases, mostly.

Whatever you choose, it is nice to know that you have options - the 625's give you LOTS of options as well as one of the most useful calibers EVER.

Dale53

 

[JWhitmore44]

The Montado is based on the New Vaquero frame I believe and I don't think I have seen a 45 ACP cylinder available for the New Vaquero. I think there is a topic discussing the issue of 45 ACP pressures in the New Vaquero frame.

I went with birds head Vaquero based on the Blackhawk frame. The 45 ACP convertible cylinders work in these guns (may have to do some fitting). I assume the reason you want to go 45 ACP is due to the better selection of factory made self defense rounds or you want so shoot cheap surplus ammo?

 

[Bigboreshooter]

..... cheap surplus ammo?

What is this "cheap surplus ammo" you speak of???? :shock:

 

[Jeff H]

..... cheap surplus ammo?

What is this "cheap surplus ammo" you speak of???? :shock:

If you shoot 45 Long Colt, I'm guessing that anything in 45ACP will feel like Cheap surplus ammo.

 

[TomC321]

>>>Some of the early Colt double actions were built so that they absolutely had to have the moon clips to operate but the Smith and Wesson's and the later colts fire just fine without the moon clips. The cases head space on the ledge inside the cylinder just like they do in a single action, (just like they do in a semi automatic).<<<

Not necessarily so. Newer S&W's are NOT designed to headspace on the case mouth but are designed to headspace on the full moon clips. There apparently was quite a controversy at the factory over this decision but the factory decision was to require full moon clips to head space the cartridges properly with the newer guns.

One of my 625's will work without the moon clips but the headspace appears excessive. My other will not reliably fire the ACP's without clips.

None of this bothers me. I shoot ACP's with clips and if I want to shoot without clips I use my Starline .45 Auto Rim cases. What I do know, is that these are two of the most accurate revolvers I own and THAT pleases me to no end.

As an aside:
I require tools to use the full moon clips. I use a RE-MOONER (the "Unique" tool) from:

http://www.demooner.com/prodtype.asp?PT ... istory=cat

While this also works well for de-mooning I prefer the $17.00 (pliers type) further down the page for "De-mooning". These demoon two cases at once without danger of case or clip damage.

For range use it is hard to beat the Polymer RIMZ clips that allow you to EASILY use WITHOUT tools.

These days, I find myself using Starline .45 Auto Rim cases, mostly.

Whatever you choose, it is nice to know that you have options - the 625's give you LOTS of options as well as one of the most useful calibers EVER.

Dale53

My old 25-2 works fine without clips. My pretty new 625JM has the longer headspacing and likes clips, but you can replace the frame mounted firing pin with a longer one to get it to work without clips.

 

[Zeus]

To be honest, a new cylinder will be pretty expensive. I don't know what it cost these days to build one but I'd guess it would be close to $500-600 for a new cylinder. Now, if you could find an existing cylinder that could be fit to it, that would be a different story but I don't know which ones would work for the Montado. You could always call Hamilton Bowen, John Gallagher, Alan Harton, or David Clements and see what your options are and what the cost would be.

 

[Dale53]

I had a meeting at my local gun club tonight. Wouldn't you know it - this very subject was in the latest issue of "Guns and Ammo". Hamilton Bowen has done a conversion of a Ruger .45 Colt to use .45 ACP (under the title "Revitalizing a New Vaquero").

You can read the article here:

http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/ ... ed+Vaquero

The Bowen conversion allows the use of both .45 ACP AND .45 Auto Rim (the Ruger factory Blackhawk conversions are restricted to .45 ACP only). Of course, it requires a new cylinder and you are talking about $500.00 or so...

Interesting, nonetheless...

Dale53

 

[Anonymous]

Let's just make one thing clear - if you want a .45 ACP cylinder just so you can shoot cheaper ammo, you're kidding yourself. You'll spend more on the cylinder than you'll ever save on ammo...

 

[Knuckles]

I think I know what the poster was thinking on this thread... the Montado is such a nicely made revolver and kind of a nice carry gun to boot, who wouldn't want one in .45acp?... I know I would love that gun in a convertible.

BTW... a Ruger .45acp in double action wouldn't be to shabby either. :shock:

 

[edlmann]

BTW... a Ruger .45acp in double action wouldn't be to shabby either.

Or .44 Special, .40 S&W, 10mm, .41 Special, .45 CAS, etc.

 

[Knuckles]

Why not... I would love it! :twisted:

 

[Wrangler John]

All I know is that the .45 Colt/ACP convertible I had years ago was just phenomenally accurate with the .45 ACP cylinder installed. I used the same load for my heavy slide custom 1911 and was amazed to find it shot little groups that removed the X-ring. It was cheap to feed with a 200 grain semi-wad cutter cast bullet and 3 grains of Bulleye powder. It was just fun to shoot.

 

[JWhitmore44]

..... cheap surplus ammo?

What is this "cheap surplus ammo" you speak of???? :shock:

Used to be able to find 45acp ball ammo fairly cheap but haven't seen that in a long time Thought maybe the OP had a line on some.

 

[GaryA]

I'm very happy that Bowen has done this conversion and that it has been reported on. This bodes well for Ruger doing an occasional run of New Vaquero convertibles as they did with the Vaquero. Plenty of other SAAs and clones have been offered with dual cylinders (I have a Cimarron) and the New Vaquero frame and cylinder is plenty strong to handle the pressures of .45 acp. I'd buy one as soon as Ruger offers it, either Montado, or 4 5/8 or 5 1/2, no matter. Maybe one of each.