44 special what diameter cast bullets?

[4570]

I have on the way a new Lipsey bisley flattop in 44 special.
There is an excellent supplier of commercial cast bullets a few hours from home.
His standard is .430 but offers others.

I know about slugging the bore with soft lead.
But I really want to start loading...

So what diameter commercial (fairly hard) cast bullets to start with?

 

[ph_redhawk]

You need to not only slug the bore but also need to pin gauge all cylinder throats. For revolvers cast bullets should be sized to the cylinder throats. Some say 0.0005" over some say a tad under. Your barrel bore SHOULD be a couple or three thou smaller than the cylinder throats.

For all the 44's I have been involved with .430 is too small for cast bullets.

 

[NikA]

Ask him for samples sized .430 to .432 and try to push them through the throats to see what size you need. Otherwise you'll want a way to accurately measure throats as mentioned. Smashing a soft lead round ball through with a punch has worked for me in the past as well.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Lead bullets should be sized to fit the bore . . . perhaps 0.001" oversize.

Cylinder throats should be sized to pass the bullets . . . perhaps 0.0005" oversize.

The bullet doesn't want to get "resized" except at the forcing cone.

A jacketed bullet should pass thru the throats with little to no effort, lead ones with a light push, if any.

Don't be surprised if your throats are not all the same size, and perhaps not even round. It happens.

 

[CraigC]

Try .430's before going to a bunch of trouble with pin gauges and all that nonsense. In 26yrs and 19 different .44 sixguns in several different .44 caliber chamberings, I've never used anything else. Other than .427's where applicable.

 

[5of7]

You need to not only slug the bore but also need to pin gauge all cylinder throats. For revolvers cast bullets should be sized to the cylinder throats. Some say 0.0005" over some say a tad under. Your barrel bore SHOULD be a couple or three thou smaller than the cylinder throats.

For all the 44's I have been involved with .430 is too small for cast bullets.

This is the best advice offered so far. However you measure the throats, the bullets should match that diameter. Otherwise you will have leading. 8)

 

[Ale-8(1)]

First, the bullets must be sized to the bore.

Then, the throats must pass the bullets.

Undersized throats can be reamed.

Oversized throats will produce leading.

 

[5of7]

Al8--I agree that bullets undersized to the throats will cause leading, but the best bet is to have throats .001" to .002" larger than the groove diameter and bullets sized to match the throats.

It does not hurt anything at all if the bullets enter the barrel a couple of thousandths oversize relative to the groove diameter of the barrel. That condition insures that the bullet will make a good tight seal so that the hot gasses cannot leak around the bullet, which will result in leading and poor accuracy. 8)

 

[CraigC]

Shoot it first before you go worrying about problems that don't exist yet. :roll:

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Al8--I agree that bullets undersized to the throats will cause leading, but the best bet is to have throats .001" to .002" larger than the groove diameter and bullets sized to match the throats.

It does not hurt anything at all if the bullets enter the barrel a couple of thousandths oversize relative to the groove diameter of the barrel. That condition insures that the bullet will make a good tight seal so that the hot gasses cannot leak around the bullet, which will result in leading and poor accuracy. 8)

Absolutely.

The point I'm attempting to make is that you have a gun with a fixed bore size that the bullets must match closely. Yes, you can oversize the lead bullets a couple of thousandths without problems assuming you have the hardness matched to the chamber pressure. That said, you want the bullets to pass thru the throats without an interference fit, like a half-thou or so clearance. So, you then must examine the throats to see how they match up to the bullet you are using, one that is properly sized to the bore. If the throats are undersized, reaming them to a proper size is an everyday chore for gunsmiths, and not prohibitively expensive. If the throats are oversize, you have a more serious problem.

Bottom line is, you can't really change the bore size, but you can ream the throats to fit. I'll suggest anyone interested read IOWEGAN's lengthy discussion on lead bullets on the "other" Rugerforum site. He spells it out quite nicely, and I've followed his thinking on several Ruger revolvers with total satisfaction.

For what it's worth, the several .45 Colt Rugers I've dealt with all had grossly undersized (and out-of-round) throats. Once reamed to 0.4525" for use with 0.452" lead bullets in the 0.451" bore, leading simply disappeared.

Oh . . . and 0.451" jacketed bullets work just fine as well.

JMHO
:mrgreen:

 

[sixshot]

Ale-8 (1) just nailed it!

Dick

 

[lolbell]

Shoot it first before you go worrying about problems that don't exist yet. :roll:

^^ This ^^ I have many Ruger revolvers that have shot lead very well right out of the box. I shoot .452 in the 45s, .430 or .431 in the 44s, .411 in the 41s, .359 in the 357s and .313 or .314 in the 327s. I get good accuracy and no leading plus I push the same bullet easy or hard. I've had only 1 revolver I had to do anything with to get it to shoot lead. That was an old 7 1/2" Blackhawk in 45c. Reamed the throats to .4525 on it , now no problems.

I said 7.5 Blackhawk in 45- It's a 7.5" Vaquero in 45c

 

[Slenk]

My 44 special flattop shoots .430 lead bullets. No problem with leading.

 

[s4s4u]

Shoot it first before you go worrying about problems that don't exist yet. :roll:

What he said ^^^

 

[wdr2]

I have shot both 0.430 and 0.431 sized cast bullets in my Lipsey Bisley flattop 44 SP. These are cast of WW + 2%tin and are Keith style (MP molds copy of H&G 503) then powder coated. Both sizes shoot very well with no leading. I have yet to see any difference. My cylinder throats will just take a 0.431 minus pin gage.

 

[5of7]

Al8--I agree that bullets undersized to the throats will cause leading, but the best bet is to have throats .001" to .002" larger than the groove diameter and bullets sized to match the throats.

It does not hurt anything at all if the bullets enter the barrel a couple of thousandths oversize relative to the groove diameter of the barrel. That condition insures that the bullet will make a good tight seal so that the hot gasses cannot leak around the bullet, which will result in leading and poor accuracy. 8)

Absolutely.

The point I'm attempting to make is that you have a gun with a fixed bore size that the bullets must match closely. Yes, you can oversize the lead bullets a couple of thousandths without problems assuming you have the hardness matched to the chamber pressure. That said, you want the bullets to pass thru the throats without an interference fit, like a half-thou or so clearance. So, you then must examine the throats to see how they match up to the bullet you are using, one that is properly sized to the bore. If the throats are undersized, reaming them to a proper size is an everyday chore for gunsmiths, and not prohibitively expensive. If the throats are oversize, you have a more serious problem.

Bottom line is, you can't really change the bore size, but you can ream the throats to fit. I'll suggest anyone interested read IOWEGAN's lengthy discussion on lead bullets on the "other" Rugerforum site. He spells it out quite nicely, and I've followed his thinking on several Ruger revolvers with total satisfaction.

For what it's worth, the several .45 Colt Rugers I've dealt with all had grossly undersized (and out-of-round) throats. Once reamed to 0.4525" for use with 0.452" lead bullets in the 0.451" bore, leading simply disappeared.

Oh . . . and 0.451" jacketed bullets work just fine as well.

JMHO
:mrgreen:

I don't see a lot of difference in our respective approach to shooting cast bullets in a revolver. I have always tried to use the .0005" oversize bullet relative to throat diameter and had better results than otherwise, but certainly matching the size exactly would be OK. On the occasions that I have shot cast bullets smaller than the throat diameter I have had less than optimal results, but if that works for you, I wouldn't argue with the results that you are getting.

Oh, one more item. I once had a Blackhawk with .454 throats and the biggest bullets I had were .4525. I got leading and poor accuracy out of it and was discussing it with an even-older-than-me tool maker friend who was also a gunsmith. He advised that if I 'kicked it in the ass' a little harder, it might solve the problem. Now I had been loading to about 800 fps velocity, so I increased the powder charge to get about 1000 fps., and the leading vanished and the accuracy improved.

He said that the bullet would upset to fill the throat by increasing the rate of acceleration and by golly, he was right. 8)