.38 S&W SPL+P with moon clips

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shootinfule

Bearcat
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Since this question is about a "non-Ruger" revolver, I thought it best to post here. A have a cousin that is a first time firearm owner in Massachusetts. I'm in Colorado. The label on the box is: Smith & Wesson M642 PRO series w/moonclips. Model 642-1, .38 S&W SPL+P. I've searched everywhere I can think of and can't find a reason for this revolver to use moon clips. Can anyone explain this mystery? None of my Rugers use moon clips and neither does either one of my Smiths.

Thanks in advance for your help,
Taylor
 
Joined
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I'd imagine it's an effort to make the gun accept moon clip reloading for speed reloads when required and a "normal" speed loader is not desired. If nothing else, the moon clip would pretty much insure that all the empties got removed under a stressful situation, and still allow the use of a speed loader for reloading . . . maybe.

Just a guess. I'm no S&W expert.
 

Bob Wright

Hawkeye
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Yep, many competition shooters have advocated the use of full-moon clips as an aid in speed reloading. Eliminates the use of a speed loader.

Clips of steel can, and do, get bent, negating their value. Plastic, or fiber, clips not so likely to get bent.

As for me, I find clips of no value in my Blackhawks/Super Blackhawks! But then I've never been in a situation where rapid reloading is necessary.

Bob Wright
 

Jimbo357mag

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TK Customs used to machine many types of revolvers to use moon clips. Most of their jobs allowed the gun to hold rounds with or without moon clips.

https://tkcustom.com/
 

shootinfule

Bearcat
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Thank you all for your responses. They encouraged me to do more research. I never would have guessed a revolver could function both with and without moon clips. And the 642-1 can as the moon clips are 0.020" thick
Thanks, Taylor
 

Bad Barlow

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Moon clips are the way to go for quick reloads in a revolver that is meant to use them. Speed loaders suck in comparison. Unless you are Jerry Miculek.
 

mistermills357

Blackhawk
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Messages
779
Moon clips are an aid for speeding up a reload, but they are not required.

I used HKS and Safariland speedloaders when I had my Speed Six.

I prefer those myself, but you are free to drop the rounds in one at a time too.
 

GoBow

Bearcat
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If the cylinder is shortened to allow moon clips, how does that work without the clips?

Without the clips, won’t there be excessive headspace? The hammer drives the case forward until the rim hits the face of the cylinder, the primer ignites, then the case gets driven back against the rear of the frame.

Or did I miss something?
 

Jimbo357mag

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If the cylinder is shortened to allow moon clips, how does that work without the clips?

Without the clips, won’t there be excessive headspace? The hammer drives the case forward until the rim hits the face of the cylinder, the primer ignites, then the case gets driven back against the rear of the frame.

Or did I miss something?
When a normal 38 cylinder is machined to accept the moon clips they leave some of the cylinder around the outside of the cylinder to catch the rim of the cartridge.

 

contender

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"Moon clips are the way to go for quick reloads in a revolver that is meant to use them. Speed loaders suck in comparison. Unless you are Jerry Miculek."

I disagree politely.
Go to an ICORE match,, & watch how fast MANY shooters reload a revolver with moons. Not just Jerry. Jerry is just the world record holder & one of the fastest ever.
And for the people who prefer a revolver,, moons are the fastest way to reload. I shoot a revolver in USPSA competition, and I've beaten many people who are shooting the bottom feeding shell shuckers. And I'm not Jerry either.

But you are right in that they are the way to go in a revolver meant to use them.

Bent or damaged clips. Yes,, it can happen. But, if properly carried or used,, not an issue. And semi-auto magazines can have rounds pop off the top, get mis-aligned, jam, fall out of a gun when not fully seated, etc.

My point? BOTH DA revolvers as well as semi-auto's have their pluses AND minuses.
 

Bad Barlow

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"Moon clips are the way to go for quick reloads in a revolver that is meant to use them. Speed loaders suck in comparison. Unless you are Jerry Miculek."

I disagree politely.
Go to an ICORE match,, & watch how fast MANY shooters reload a revolver with moons. Not just Jerry. Jerry is just the world record holder & one of the fastest ever.
And for the people who prefer a revolver,, moons are the fastest way to reload. I shoot a revolver in USPSA competition, and I've beaten many people who are shooting the bottom feeding shell shuckers. And I'm not Jerry either.

But you are right in that they are the way to go in a revolver meant to use them.

Bent or damaged clips. Yes,, it can happen. But, if properly carried or used,, not an issue. And semi-auto magazines can have rounds pop off the top, get mis-aligned, jam, fall out of a gun when not fully seated, etc.

My point? BOTH DA revolvers as well as semi-auto's have their pluses AND minuses.
Nice of you to "politely disagree",and I am sincere, but after reading your response, it sounds like you don't disagree?
And politeness matters!
 

contender

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I guess I should have been a little clearer.
A lot of people are as fast or almost as fast as Jerry. I know,, I've been a RO for Jerry & others.
And I don't think moonclips suck. Quite the contrary.

It's well established that semi-auto's have more things that can go "wrong" with them. Failure to disengage a safety, failure to get a proper grip on a grip safety, mag releases getting pushed at the wrong time, failure to insert a magazine to lock, inability to rack a slide,, especially one handed.
Failure to operate it totally one handed, using the "off" hand.

I teach a lot of ladies to shoot. Especially elderly ladies. Weak hands equals slide operation issues.
In a SD situation, being able to operate a semi vs a revolver using just one hand, and it being your off hand can cause failure.
I have seen it happen,,,,,, to my mother when she was attacked & robbed.

But reloading,, a moon is no more or no less than a magazine when it comes to the average person's speed, or use. It's just different.

That's why I disagreed with your comment that moon clips sucked. POLITELY.
 

Bad Barlow

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I guess I should have been a little clearer.
A lot of people are as fast or almost as fast as Jerry. I know,, I've been a RO for Jerry & others.
And I don't think moonclips suck. Quite the contrary.

It's well established that semi-auto's have more things that can go "wrong" with them. Failure to disengage a safety, failure to get a proper grip on a grip safety, mag releases getting pushed at the wrong time, failure to insert a magazine to lock, inability to rack a slide,, especially one handed.
Failure to operate it totally one handed, using the "off" hand.

I teach a lot of ladies to shoot. Especially elderly ladies. Weak hands equals slide operation issues.
In a SD situation, being able to operate a semi vs a revolver using just one hand, and it being your off hand can cause failure.
I have seen it happen,,,,,, to my mother when she was attacked & robbed.

But reloading,, a moon is no more or no less than a magazine when it comes to the average person's speed, or use. It's just different.

That's why I disagreed with your comment that moon clips sucked. POLITELY.
Please carefully read my original post, I said moon clips are the way to go, "speed loaders suck" NOT MOON CLIPS.
I differentiate between moon clips and mechanical "speed loaders".
Politely said, I hope!
 

contender

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Well, here I sit,, with egg on my face,, humbled & ashamed at not reading the post correctly.
My apologies.
I allowed my mind to gloss over the portion of speed loaders vs moon clips.

Sheesh,, I haven't made that big a mistake in a long time,, at least for 1-2 days now! :D :D

Seriously,, I was totally wrong in my direction of explaining things. I guess it comes from my point of defending the use of moons against the nay-sayers so often.

Now, I'll put on my dunce hat & go sit in the corner. Then, later I'll write on the blackboard 100 times; "I will carefully read a post before typing a reply."
 

Bad Barlow

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Well, here I sit,, with egg on my face,, humbled & ashamed at not reading the post correctly.
My apologies.
I allowed my mind to gloss over the portion of speed loaders vs moon clips.

Sheesh,, I haven't made that big a mistake in a long time,, at least for 1-2 days now! :D :D

Seriously,, I was totally wrong in my direction of explaining things. I guess it comes from my point of defending the use of moons against the nay-sayers so often.

Now, I'll put on my dunce hat & go sit in the corner. Then, later I'll write on the blackboard 100 times; "I will carefully read a post before typing a reply."
 

Bad Barlow

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Gosh, Contender,such a heartfelt "mea culpa"! Surely ,no biggie, I could have been clearer.
At least we finally agree that we agree!
I shoot an 8 shot Smith in 357,and a 7 shot Smith in 9mm. Love showing the bottom feeders how to do it.
Do you have an accurate recipe for 38 Short Colt?I have 124,147,and 160 grain round noses ,.358" dia.
Be well,BB
 

Snake Pleskin

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Aiken, South Carolina
I also like revolvers but tend to carry an auto most of the time. I carry small these days, usually a Glock 42 that has been tuned and has Pearce extensions. I get 7 in the mag one in the pipe. that is more than enough. I carry one extra mag in case of a failure, its easier to drop the mag and reload. I really do not need the extra rounds, but sometimes another mag is needed for reliability. Also, many people that have arthritis, weak hands, lack of upper body strength that make autos difficult for them also find that the avg double action trigger pull of 10-12 lbs can be hard too! You can only tune it so much before reliability suffers. One reason i like wheel guns is that I can load for it and make any "level" load i want, and it will function reliably. Autos can be sensitive to ammo, especially reloads.IMHO
 

contender

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"
Gosh, Contender,such a heartfelt "mea culpa"! Surely ,no biggie, I could have been clearer.
At least we finally agree that we agree!"

My friend,, if you hang around here long enough, you'll see this place is full of great folks who are the type to openly admit mistakes and not get bent out of shape or upset etc.
It was totally my fault,, for NOT reading it the way you were saying it.
Dunce hat on! :D :D

As for .38 shorts,, no help there. I know what you are doing & I've never used them,, so I don't load those.

HOWEVER,, I may be able to point you in the direction for some information as to why your shorts aren't as accurate as the SPL brass etc.
PM me.
 

Bad Barlow

Single-Sixer
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Messages
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I also like revolvers but tend to carry an auto most of the time. I carry small these days, usually a Glock 42 that has been tuned and has Pearce extensions. I get 7 in the mag one in the pipe. that is more than enough. I carry one extra mag in case of a failure, its easier to drop the mag and reload. I really do not need the extra rounds, but sometimes another mag is needed for reliability. Also, many people that have arthritis, weak hands, lack of upper body strength that make autos difficult for them also find that the avg double action trigger pull of 10-12 lbs can be hard too! You can only tune it so much before reliability suffers. One reason i like wheel guns is that I can load for it and make any "level" load i want, and it will function reliably. Autos can be sensitive to ammo, especially reloads.IMHO
It doesn't happen often, but I agree with everything you said!
I only use my revolvers for fun shooting,and like an XD or Shield for personal defense.
 

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