357 maximum blew up

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Rick Courtright

Hawkeye
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Messages
7,897
Location
Redlands CA USA
Hi,

Talk to these guys about getting some of this stuff tested: http://www.hpwhite.com/contact-us/

Having real test results in hand can't help but reinforce a claim if the ammo's defective. Otherwise there's gonna be a lot of "doubt" which can be brought into the picture. Especially in any discussion that starts off "Your Honor,..."

There are so many things wrong with this story and the reaction of the company that you may need, or want, to pull out all the stops before things are said and done. As you suggested, there may be someone else out there who wasn't as lucky as you were to damage only hardware, not a person, and if you can help prevent that, you've done well. Best of luck!

Rick C
 

Prescut

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
266
the pics were placed in the other thread. I learned now not to do make two threads and try to point with a link. sorry

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=239551&p=2406089#p2406089
 

Throckmorton

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 1, 2003
Messages
42
Location
Wa state,the sw corner of it
Glad you are ok ! wow,that had to be traumatic as hell !

nail his butt ! If for no other reason than to protect other shooters. Go straight to the top,the AG of that state,if you're thinking a small town DA won't prosecute.

I would also put pics of the gun and ammo box on every site and facebook page I could,post it as a warning to other shooters,maybe not as a rant. Can't be slander if it's true.
 

Prescut

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
266
Throckmorton,

Thanks for the recognition about traumatic.

I don't think I've quite been able to communicate what it was like holding an explosion in your hand. I remember not even wanting to look down to see the damage to my hand or face. I could feel a sting on both. I was numb all over from the shock and didn't know if I had been injured severely or not. I had to check as I calmed down. We all hear about such things, but when they happen to you, your reaction can be surprising.

I had to force myself not to leave. I had to force myself to pick up that next wheelgun and take a shot. My trigger finger jerked like I had never seen a rookie do. I was stunned with how long it took to get my breathing back and to hit the target. My bullseye shooting was over.

The kind of mental crap I went through doesn't go away quick.

Prescut
 

Precision32

Blackhawk
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Ocala, FL
Throckmorton said:
Glad you are ok ! wow,that had to be traumatic as hell !

nail his butt ! If for no other reason than to protect other shooters. Go straight to the top,the AG of that state,if you're thinking a small town DA won't prosecute.

I would also put pics of the gun and ammo box on every site and facebook page I could,post it as a warning to other shooters,maybe not as a rant. Can't be slander if it's true.
I doubt the AG is going to do anything. What law was violated?

This is a civil matter, defective product and product liability.
 

David Bradshaw

Blackhawk
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
933
Prescut said:
I bought some factory maximum ammo at a gun store that was severely over pressure specs... Now, I have a stuck brass case in my DW 40 cylinder...

Discovered the following:
each of the cylinder holes are tapered toward the chamber. Shells will not push in from that end.
hole 1 - .3825 - .381 taper
hole 2 - .380 - .380
.381 - .381
hole 3 - .381+ - .381
hole 4 - .382 - .381 taper
.381 - .381
hole 5 - .382 - .381 taper
hole 6 - .394 - .393 bulge and taper
.397
.402
The cylinder rubs on the top strap when hole 6 is at the top. It is possible to manually push past it, but a hammer pull will not do it.
who this guy really was.
Prescut

***
Prescut....
The .357 Maximum runs a straight chamber. It is not unusual to encounter very minor reverse taper. Generally, extraction of cases exposed to 50,000 psi doesn't impede extraction. Brass is a factor as to make, reloading life, and, significantly, pressure of reload. My experience is limited to Remington and Federal .357 Maximum brass, with Remington preferred.

The sprung chamber in you Dan Wesson is a testament to two qualities: 1) excellent material and heat treatment of the DWA cylinder, and 2) extreme overload of the ammunition which SPRUNG the CHAMBER.

Ruger and Remington collaborated on development of the .357 Maximum. A working chamber pressure of 50,000 psi requires a proof cartridge 40% over working pressure, which equals 70,000 psi. A proof of 50% over=75,000 psi. We shot experimental ammo which exceeded the 50% overload, in quantity, which did nothing to the Blackhawk Maximums, save for some barrel face erosion.

Your gun and its shooter experienced a catastrophic structural failure resulting from extreme over-pressure. Of course, I cannot assign pounds per square inch. I will say this: I shot compromised cylinders with loads which tested over 75,000 psi----these cylinders held.

I still want to see a photos of the bullet and a disassembled cartridge. Weight is bullet is important, with make, if possible.
David Bradshaw
 

Prescut

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
266
Thanks David,

I'm still getting the shakes sometimes when this topic comes back up. Reading what you have done is simply amazing. Very few of us get to do that, and especially not for a living. Your experience here really shows me how lucky I was. This whole event could have been much much worse. I really want to thank you for your work on making that Ruger Maximum a tank. It may have saved my life.

I have found another individual on the DW Forum that has some of the same ammo. I am getting pics, descriptions, and weights from him as well. All will show here when I get it.

David, if you PM me an address, I will try and get you an example of the round.

Prescut
 

daveg.inkc

Hunter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Messages
2,503
Location
Kansas City, MO
If I had this Blackhawk, I would only shoot my loads. Like when I bought my .41 M Blackhawk , no factory ammo to be had. No Problem. Called Starline in Sedalia MO , go across parking lot to Sierra Bullets, problem solved!
 

mohavesam

Hawkeye
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
5,847
Location
Rugerville, AZ
Ale-8(1) said:
Well, a year has passed. Any further activity in this matter?

I re-read this thread and still wonder why - aside from the dangerous lot of ammunition - smart folks try to out-think the engineers on decent firearms?

I had a conversation with a guy at the range not so long ago, who thought he could convince me to try his "3500fps" 270Win loads in my rifle. I find it incredible that 90% of his ilk do not own a chrono, nor pressure-test equipment, and actually shoot these abominations near innocent people, etc. I'll have no part of such stupidity!

If I want a "magnum", I'll buy a magnum.
 

DGW1949

Hunter
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Messages
3,916
Location
Texas
mohavesam said:
Ale-8(1) said:
Well, a year has passed. Any further activity in this matter?

I re-read this thread and still wonder why - aside from the dangerous lot of ammunition - smart folks try to out-think the engineers on decent firearms?

I had a conversation with a guy at the range not so long ago, who thought he could convince me to try his "3500fps" 270Win loads in my rifle. I find it incredible that 90% of his ilk do not own a chrono, nor pressure-test equipment, and actually shoot these abominations near innocent people, etc. I'll have no part of such stupidity!

If I want a "magnum", I'll buy a magnum.

In all due respect, while I get (and agree with) your point...unlike the 270 rifle you referenced, the gun in question is not only a "magnum", it is a magnum-magnum if you will.
What I'm getting at there is that even in it's standard (SAAMI-spec) form, the ammo which has been lab-tested/developed by the well-experienced, main stream manufacturer(s) for safe use in that type of gun has already stretched about as close to the limit as is possible...after all, it is by design a "magnum magnum", is it not?...

So given that, I've always had serious doubts when it comes to the claims made by the various boutique-manufactures in terms of their having stumbled upon some sort of (seemingly magic) formula which has allowed them to produce/sell ammo with "dazzling number and power figures" well beyond what is being produced by the major manufactures, while keeping it within industry pressure/safety standards.

In other words...In my book, the companies which market that kind of ammo at the very least SHOULD know that they are playing with fire...AND be harshly-reminded that they are by each and every customer whom has experienced a gun failure and/or injury as a direct result of the ammo they are selling.

DGW
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
11,653
Location
Kentucky
DGW1949 said:
In my book, the companies which market that kind of ammo at the very least SHOULD know that they are playing with fire...AND be harshly-reminded that they are by each and every customer whom has experienced a gun failure and/or injury as a direct result of the ammo they are selling.DGW

Sounds right to me!

:mrgreen:
 

nvbirdman

Blackhawk
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
851
Location
fallon, nv
You said that an attorney would cost $5000 and you would not be able to recover that money.
How many attorneys did you talk to? Find another attorney, and ask him to refer you to an attorney in Indiana.
 

Prescut

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
266
Well, a little over a year and I'm still nervous every time this topic comes up. I contacted Grafs and a few distributors for the manufacturer and gave them notice of recognized problems by PC. They said they had not received any notice directly from PC. I have posted the entire story and pics on several sites. I have contacted 4 different people that posted they had some of the PC 357 Maximum ammo and I related the story. I still have 6 boxes.

PC finally sent me a check after 8 months. I was stunned and shocked that it ever happened. The note that came with it ignored all the problems, accusations, and name calling. It was pure as sunshine and twice as sweet. Reality is malleable.

Prescut
I now handload exclusively.
 

buckeyeshooter

Blackhawk
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
856
Location
Ohio
Prescut said:
Toroflow,
I was hoping you would see this and respond. It is 100 miles from your neck of the woods where I bought it, Parker, AZ. Nice little family gun shop. They are trying to help.

Thanks for your appreciation and understanding of what it took to name the vendor. I don't like seeing the net as an offensive tool. Too many unreasonable haters out there.

I hope we get another chance to shoot together.
Does this make you nervous shooting with me? It makes me nervous shooting with me.

After it happened, I had to take a break and do all the deep breathing techniques I knew. I was shook and shaking. I was about to leave and go home, but I thought I might not come back. I needed to face my fears. So after awhile, I picked up another sixgun, loaded up some of my reloads, and tried to do some shooting. My trigger finger was gone, I haven't jerked a trigger like that in 50 years. A couple of days later, I was shooting again with some calm and control. But it wasn't free.

Kevin,
I believe they are medium to large company. I see ads, I see Facebook, I've talked to folks who recognize the name. The never shooting his ammo again is his standard demand I have seen on other complaints. It got him into trouble on INGO.com. I had to follow up in writing.
I have lots of proof of bad ammo. I believe the entire lot of 6 boxes I got are all bad. I pulled bullets and weighed. they were the same. The Ruger is in pieces with the split blownup case still in the chamber.
I'm not sure what you mean by "expect". Like I said, the first gun was a Dan Wesson SuperMag and only bulged. You could not see the bulge. I thought it was a high primer, I reported on this forum last month several primers doing just like that. I brought the guns home to free the cylinder. It was only several hours later when the Ruger blew that I tried to turn the DW cylinder and then could see a slight bulge hanging on the topstrap. The gun shop I returned to, didn't see it at all until I pointed it out. They then said the gun was toast. So that made two parties that could not tell it was damaged. and Yes, it pissed me off to no end that I somehow didn't catch it. Was this stupid or negligent? In hindsight, I still don't think so.

Coogs,
Thanks bud. You're one of the ones I was hoping would see this. I know your love for the Maximum.



Mobuck,
I am now trying myself to get the distributors and sellers to pull the ammo. I have asked and have no knowledge of the vendor ever trying to recall it. This future danger is what finally caused me to tell this story.

Dan,
I am known for being tenacious. I tend to lock onto something and not let go until satisfaction is reached. I am already calculating the cost way past $5000 attorney retainer and the two guns at $1500. It can cost a lot of money to do the right thing, if and when you can figure out what that is.

Prescut
You tried to be more than reasonable. If it were me, I would be writing that check for $5000. Some folks need to take responsibility for the actions they choose. Some one could die.
 

Prescut

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
266
Buckeyeshooter,
I'm with you bud. My anger kept me warm at night for many months.

Eventually, I got tired of sleepless nights and decided that anger was leading me to hate and the dark side. Life is just too short to spend your time hating. It gets to be a habit.

Unfortunately, trying to let go also took me to guilt. My emotions were pretty raw after the event and the wound was kept open regularly through contact with the manufacturer. As far as sueing, I spent a fortune and 2 tortuous years on winning a software copyright suit. I also spent many years working in the Justice System and know it intimately. It's like Nuclear War; Nobody wins. I would rather take a daily beating than get in a law suit.

I was afraid of what would happen to my guilt if someone else was hurt. I couldn't decide when I had done enough to stop this type of manufacturing and to protect other shooters. I tried hard to do the right thing.

I'm sorry, but there is no end to this story.


Prescut
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2022
Messages
4,435
Location
Maryland
Blowing up a second gun wasn't too bright. Kinda like Kentucky Ballistics continuing to use ammo that was clearly sketchy until the gun nearly killed him. This "Ammo Manufacturer" is probably some numbnuts in his basement who thought he found his niche selling maxed out ammo and mixed up the powder he was using so he isn't some multi millionaire with an ammo factory.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
25,138
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
This thread is several years old.

Re-read his OP. He shot (1) gun, it locked up, and he thought it was a high primer. He shot a second gun, and it blew up. THEN he checked gun #1.

I don't think he was negligent in his actions. I know many of us would stop & figure out what happened with gun #1,, but not everybody will.

The ammo maker sent him his requested money. Probably figured it was "cheap" compared to the potential legal issues.

My only complaint was the OP calling it "Factory" ammo. It was not ammo from a major manufacturer such as Remington or Federal,, but a company building ammo that's a "reload" so to speak.

I handload,, and I use manuals,, and study a lot before I build a new load. And then, as it's often said; "Start low & build up."
As always,, "accuracy trumps power."
 

Wvfarrier

Blackhawk
Joined
May 21, 2017
Messages
737
Im just thankful all your fingers, toes and eyes are still in their proper locations after that. GOD was watching out for you without a doubt
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
9,674
Location
Dallas, TX
Phew! That's a blast from the past. I vaguely remember this thread when it was first created.

I'be got a Maximum, but I bought it in the fall of 2019. So even after this thread was first written.

There are just some calibers I won't buy factory ammo for, the maximum of course, if there even is factory ammunition available? But also the 41 Mag and 45 Colt. Just because of price.

But also, these calibers are pretty straight forward to reload for, and like homemade food, you know the ingredients!
 

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