257 Bob choices

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olywa

Bearcat
Joined
May 25, 2003
Messages
24
Location
Wetter Washington
I'm not much of a bolt-action devotee, other than my stainless 77/44 which I will never part with. I live on the wet side of Washington State and most of my rifles are quick handling carbines. I have a couple of nice, older Marlin 336s in 30-30 and 35 Remington, as well as a stainless #1 in 45-70. Other than the occasional coyote, I don't think I've ever shot at anything more than 150 yards away, and most of my shooting is probably sub-75 yards or so.

All that being said, I've got a hankering for a bolt-action rifle in 257 Roberts in case I ever get a chance for some open country hunting. I've been eyeballing the new Hawkeye as well as the new Kimber Montana. The Kimber is a beauty and almost looks too pretty to take hunting, while the Hawkeye looks like the working-class rifles I'm more used to and I can pick it up for far less coin. I just wish Ruger would build it on their short action.

Of course, I could pick up an older short-action Ruger 77 and have it rebarrelled. At the end of they day, I just want a dependable bolt-action rifle in 257 Roberts that will push a 100gr pill between 2900 and 3100 fps. I'm kind of on the fence here. What do you guys think?
 

valkrider8

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
110
Location
PA
Olywa,
What you might be looking for is the Ruger MKII RL. It is there ultra-light model and they chamber it in 257 Roberts. It is a carbine, much like your other rifles, but don't believe they can't shoot the distance you are looking for. They have 20" barrels and weigh 6 1/2 lbs. I have hunted with one in the 270 cal. for many years and have taken shots from 50 yards to 250 yards with success. It's one of my favorite hunting rigs, seems to be my go to gun. I have found that most of the gun shops that stock the ultra-lights have them in the popular 308, 270, or 30-06 chamberings. Check them out, see how they feel, if you like it order one up in the 257 Roberts caliber, you will not regret it. Good luck






:wink:
 

6GUNSONLY

Hunter
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
2,838
Location
Alabama, in the bend of the Tennessee River
Are you sure you can "do" a .257 Roberts on a short action? The M-77 .257s are on the long action. You might make a .257 work on a short action but I think you'd have to seat the bullets so deep it would be detrimental to accuracy and powder space. Short action cartridges are usually around 51mm case length (.308 Win.), while the .257 is based on the 57mm case length of the 7x57 Mauser.
 

olywa

Bearcat
Joined
May 25, 2003
Messages
24
Location
Wetter Washington
Thanks for the responses. COL on a 100gr in 257 runs 2.770" to 2.780". My manuals show the 260 Rem and 7/08 at 2.80". I think I'll be okay with 100gr bullets, but 120gr might be a compromise.
 

257Bob

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
18
I have one of the Hawkeyes in 257 Roberts and it is a very nice rifle and will suit your needs well. As to fitting it in to a short action well get this. The Hawkeye is on a standard/long action. But the throat is cut so short that when I sit a 100 gn Hornady 30 thou off the lands the cannalure on the bullet is almost pushed all the way into the neck of the case. So the extra space in the long magazine is wasted as the short throat prevents me from seating the bullet out. I then slipped a couple of 257 Roberts cartridges into the magazine of my 308 Ultralight and they fit just fine. Conclusion - the 257 Roberts would be just fine in a short action rifle if the rifle has a corresponding short throat.

So originally the 257 Bob was hindered by chambering it in short actions with long throats and now Ruger are chambering it in long actions with short throats. Terrific.
 

olywa

Bearcat
Joined
May 25, 2003
Messages
24
Location
Wetter Washington
Sounds like Ruger all the way. The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to go with the Kimber. It's light, trim, and built on a short action. Barsness recently did a write up on it that makes it look pretty darn attractive. The extra cost starts to look a little more reasonable when I think about going custom.
 

Rodbuster416

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
13
Location
So Cal
olywa":3uxzz1ri said:
Of course, I could pick up an older short-action Ruger 77 and have it rebarrelled. At the end of they day, I just want a dependable bolt-action rifle in 257 Roberts that will push a 100gr pill between 2900 and 3100 fps. I'm kind of on the fence here. What do you guys think?

A good friend of mine had an "Older short-action Ruger 77" in 250 Savage.
It dropped a couple CA. Blacktail and a MT. Pronghorn with ease.
It's an excellent round for it's class and can be found on occasion at GB.
No re-barreling necessary.
Although I know what it's like when you have your heart set on something.

Heres a link to a tang safety M-77 RSI at GB. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =108984550

Good luck, Ray
 

257Bob

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
18
Don't get me wrong. I love my Hawkeye .257 Roberts. The stock is one of the nicest factory stocks I've seen on factory rifles. If I can't seat the bullets out a couple more thou then so what? It's only 50 - 100 fps I'm losing. I can live with that.

Interesting article by John Barsness in the latest Rifle magazine. He was saying how when Remington chambered the .257 in the Remington classic back in the 80's they had to build it on a long action as folks wouldn't buy it if built on a short action. Maybe that's what Ruger thought too. But surely one of the engineers would have thought to cut a slightly longer throat if building the .257 on a long action. I can always get my LGS to lengthen the throat but for the few fps gained why bother. And besides, the damn thing shoots so nice as it is so I'll leave it alone.
 

257Bob

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
18
Don't get me wrong. I love my Hawkeye .257 Roberts. The stock is one of the nicest factory stocks I've seen on factory rifles. If I can't seat the bullets out a couple more thou then so what? It's only 50 - 100 fps I'm losing. I can live with that.

Interesting article by John Barsness in the latest Rifle magazine. He was saying how when Remington chambered the .257 in the Remington classic back in the 80's they had to build it on a long action as folks wouldn't buy it if built on a short action. Maybe that's what Ruger thought too. But surely one of the engineers would have thought to cut a slightly longer throat if building the .257 on a long action. I can always get my LGS to lengthen the throat but for the few fps gained why bother. And besides, the damn thing shoots so nice as it is so I'll leave it alone.
 

Beruisis

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
412
Location
Hockley, TX
olywa, I've got a Mauser action 257 Roberts Ackley Improved w/ 26" Shilen barrel I'd sell if you're interested.
B
 

olywa

Bearcat
Joined
May 25, 2003
Messages
24
Location
Wetter Washington
Thanks for the offers guys. I got impulsive and ordered a Hawkeye. My last full-size 77 was a 6mm w/the tang safety. I'll be interested to see how they compare.
 

TexasFats

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
46
Location
Austin, TX
While it is not a Ruger (will I be tarred and feathered for mentioning a non-Ruger gun here?), I have heard good things about the new Kimber 84 in .257 Roberts. At least one writer has said that it is the first rifle to do right by the venearable cartridge with respect to length of magazine, chamber throat, etc.
 

picketpin

Buckeye
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
1,544
Location
Owyhee County, ID, USA
I probably own as many rifles in 257 Roberts as just about anybody. Not counting the 5 or 6 #1s in 257 Roberts I proably have 35- 40 bolt, autos and pumps in everythging the 257 Has ever been commercially chambered for.

The are "issues" with a short action 257 Roberts. While it will work, the SAAMI spec for OAL for the 257 Roberts is 2.75. That will work in a short action. However by the time you push long bullets back in to fit the action length you get nothing you can't get with a 250 Savage in 100 grain bullets.

You can't get 3000 fps with a standard BOB in a short action with any of the heavier bullets.

The reason Ruger went with the long action is that most guys load them out to increase case capacity and that means a long action.

In all honesty, if the difference in weight or cycling speed or whatever makes a difference between a short action or the long action, you are being very very picky. What do you actually gain??? Frankly I've never seen the "advantage" to the short action in a bolt gun and I've owned a few.

There are at least 12 Ruger bolt guns in 257 Roberts in the family. We send them all to the smith and have them throated to handle the 120 Nosler Partition at a OAL of 3.00 inches and .0030 off the lands. Among us we've killed a Hell of a lot of deer and antelope with this rifle/load.

The Winchester Model 70 is on a short short action in 257 Roberts. If you can find one of the Feather Weights it's a damn pretty rifle. There is only one small problem with the model 70s, short magazine and a long throat.
In order to function through the action you end up with nearly 3/8" of free bore before the bullet engages the lands. They aren't all that accurate but certainly kill deer. This is a problem that I've run into with a LOT if bolt guns in 257 Roberts regardless of manufacturer, short magazzine length, long throat, less than stellar accuracy. My Micro Medallion Browning A-Bolt won't even hold all bullets loaded to 2.75. It depends on the ogive if they'll load. That's another of the issues.

By going to a long action it elliminates all the potental problems.

The Sako Forester was chambered in a few 257 Roberts rifle on a short action in the early 50s. THe Bob has been chambered in the Remington pump action and the auto along with the BLR from Browning and the Finwolf from Sako. Remington 788 and Model 54 and Dakota and Cooper and.............................nearly everybody makes or made one. Really boils down to how much you want to spend.


Heck I have a pre 64 Model 70 Winchester Featherweight in 257 Roberts I can let you have for $4000 or so.

I'd just buy the current production Ruger and not worry about the short/long action stuff, personally.

Yes, I also own rifles in 250-300O Savage including short action Ruger 77s, 257 Ackley Improveds and 25-06s. Then I also own 25-284s and.............. a lot of .257 caliber rifles.

R W Thomas
Owyhee County, ID
 

Lloyd Smale

Blackhawk
Joined
Aug 10, 2003
Messages
555
Location
munising MI USA
the featherweight winchesters are long actions that are blocked in the magazine for the shorter rounds. I dont know why they did it. They also put long throats in them to compound the problem. I had one and it was only a 2 inch gun with its best loads. Remington did do some 257s on short actions. Its very doable. Just about every 6mm is on a short action and its basicaly the same round.
picketpin":3ski0a6z said:
I probably own as many rifles in 257 Roberts as just about anybody. Not counting the 5 or 6 #1s in 257 Roberts I proably have 35- 40 bolt, autos and pumps in everythging the 257 Has ever been commercially chambered for.

The are "issues" with a short action 257 Roberts. While it will work, the SAAMI spec for OAL for the 257 Roberts is 2.75. That will work in a short action. However by the time you push long bullets back in to fit the action length you get nothing you can't get with a 250 Savage in 100 grain bullets.

You can't get 3000 fps with a standard BOB in a short action with any of the heavier bullets.

The reason Ruger went with the long action is that most guys load them out to increase case capacity and that means a long action.

In all honesty, if the difference in weight or cycling speed or whatever makes a difference between a short action or the long action, you are being very very picky. What do you actually gain??? Frankly I've never seen the "advantage" to the short action in a bolt gun and I've owned a few.

There are at least 12 Ruger bolt guns in 257 Roberts in the family. We send them all to the smith and have them throated to handle the 120 Nosler Partition at a OAL of 3.00 inches and .0030 off the lands. Among us we've killed a Hell of a lot of deer and antelope with this rifle/load.

The Winchester Model 70 is on a short short action in 257 Roberts. If you can find one of the Feather Weights it's a damn pretty rifle. There is only one small problem with the model 70s, short magazine and a long throat.
In order to function through the action you end up with nearly 3/8" of free bore before the bullet engages the lands. They aren't all that accurate but certainly kill deer. This is a problem that I've run into with a LOT if bolt guns in 257 Roberts regardless of manufacturer, short magazzine length, long throat, less than stellar accuracy. My Micro Medallion Browning A-Bolt won't even hold all bullets loaded to 2.75. It depends on the ogive if they'll load. That's another of the issues.

By going to a long action it elliminates all the potental problems.

The Sako Forester was chambered in a few 257 Roberts rifle on a short action in the early 50s. THe Bob has been chambered in the Remington pump action and the auto along with the BLR from Browning and the Finwolf from Sako. Remington 788 and Model 54 and Dakota and Cooper and.............................nearly everybody makes or made one. Really boils down to how much you want to spend.


Heck I have a pre 64 Model 70 Winchester Featherweight in 257 Roberts I can let you have for $4000 or so.

I'd just buy the current production Ruger and not worry about the short/long action stuff, personally.

Yes, I also own rifles in 250-300O Savage including short action Ruger 77s, 257 Ackley Improveds and 25-06s. Then I also own 25-284s and.............. a lot of .257 caliber rifles.

R W Thomas
Owyhee County, ID
 
A

Anonymous

Congrats on your hawkeye. I love the 257 and believe you will too. The LA won't be bad because what I believe sets the 257 apart from the 243 is the 120 gr bullet. If all you want is to shoot 100gr. bullets you might as well have a 243/6mm. As they say on TV you have made a wise choice grasshopper enjoy.
 

mattsbox99

Hunter
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
3,391
Location
Montana 'Merica
I'm a big fan of the .25 caliber as well, I have quite a few .25/06s, although not as many as picketpin. I really think you'll enjoy the Ruger more than the Kimber. Sure you can spend a lot of money on a gun, but you sound like me, you use your guns, they aren't safe queens. Don't get me wrong, I own plenty of nice guns, they are nice because I take care of them, but I'm certainly not afraid to take them hunting. Most of my hunting involves open prairie, but a good amount also involves thick wooded river bottoms. I can't even tell you how many deer I've harvested, not even close, maybe 30 in the last few years. My 25/06 MKII has accounted for the majority. I've never had a deer or antelope run more than 20 yards, the majority have dropped right there.
 

picketpin

Buckeye
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
1,544
Location
Owyhee County, ID, USA
I probably would have owned more 25-06s for hunting than Bobs except I'm OLD!!!

I started with a sporterized 98 Mauser with a Douglas barrel in 1960. The 25 Niedner was still a wildcat and was not standardized at the time and there were no suitable powders for the overbore 25-06 to work well with heavy bullets. Nobody factory chambered it at that time. In fact with the powders of the day it didn't get you anything the BOB wouldn't do.

In those days a 257 Ackley and it's slight capacity increase would in fact get you anything the 25-06 would do with a hunting weight bullet of the time. 117s ran about 2700 fps. They also killed deer just fine.

I killed my first deer and the next 15 or 20 with the 257 Roberts, plus 8 or ten antelope and my first 12 elk before somebody told me it wasn't an elk rifle. To date according to the log books I have killed in excess of 250 mule deer of those at least 80% were killed with a rifle chambered for the 257 Roberts and a 100 to 120 grain bullet. Any more I just stick 115 Noslers in them and they die.

My issue with the short action versus long is that over the years I have simply ran into fewer problems/issues when using a standard length action that allowed seating the bullets out to 3.00 inches OAL. By the way this isn't just a bolt action issue. The @57 Roberts has been chambered by just about everybody in nearly every action they produce/produced. So there a lever action 257s and Semi Autos and bolts that use clips and....... I have on of the Maple Stocked Remington 7600 or whatever it was numbered in that era and the magazine is short and the throart is long and the chamber is sloppy. I had to have RCBS make a set of small base dies for it to get it to work with anything other than factory new loaded ammo. Yes, it would hit a deer specially at normal deer range and in the timber or from a blind but youd be better off throwing the rifle than pulling the trigger if you were hunting antelope. Browning Micro Medallion has the short action long throat issues also

As powders got better and they developed slow enough powders to really work with the 25-06 which was finally standardized by Remington and before the increase in chamber pressures and plus P+ ammo for the Bob the 25-06 was a better off the shelf deer rifle.

It will still get approx 100 fps over an Ackley and 200 fps over the standard Bob, but barrel length and fast versus slow barrels can and have accounted for nearly that difference from rifle to rifle. The BOB does kick less.

For me at least there simply aren't enough advantages real or percieved to warrant the short action over the long action. It's just easier when working with an action long enough to seat the bullets out and to use all the case capacity and get that other 200 fps without stressing anything, including me.

Yes, the 257 Roberts is my personal favorite. ;-)

good choice and enjoy yours

R W Thomas
Owyhee County, ID
 

RedLabel

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 11, 2003
Messages
175
Location
Northern Indiana
I found this thread very interesting as my uncle used to hunt elk in Wyoming with his .257. I personally have never had a rifle chambered for the .257 Roberts. Besides my uncle, who swore by his, I hadn't heard much about this cartridge. It just isn't common. You have now got me thinking. What kind of game can it be used for? What kind of results? I see you all have used it for deer and antelope. Mule deer and elk. Amazing! Why isn't this America's cartridge? Is the 30.06 better or just bigger?
 

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