[2] CZ 75 which one??

[FED327]

Thanks for the info FED !

This .... from Wikipedia ... doesn't necessarily make it true

Jeff Cooper, a long-time advocate of the Colt 1911, hailed the CZ 75 as the best-designed double-action autoloader available at the time. Because of his endorsement, the design became the basis for the Bren Ten pistol. Česká Zbrojovka claims the CZ 75 is in service with "more Governments, Militaries, Police, and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world."


So you're probably right, at least about the hipower ... I could easily see that ! Maybe it's only CZ that says that LOL ... I know they're very popular with almost all countries other than the US. I'd seriously doubt the Beretta or PPK surpasses the CZ, but it's probably all in how the count is done ...

Do you have any links to support that ?? I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to see the ranking if you have it !

Thanks

REV

I collected High Powers & PPK's for years...R. Blake Stevens wrote "the bible" on the High Power, "The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol" and I believe it is in there as well as other publications I have seen over the years...It stands to reason anyway because it was the only hi cap 9mm until the S&W Model 59 which was almost 25 years later. The Glock, has been issued to many, many units, both civilian and military, in countries around the world. It's in the holsters of over 60% of the police in this country alone and 50,000 went to the Iraqi police force. The Beretta 92FS is in use with various countries around the world, not to mention the US Military has over 450,000 being delivered as they can be produced from a current contract with Beretta USA, not including what they already have on hand.

And no, I don't think the PPK is now or ever was in widespread use, other than by the Nazi's in WWII and some few countries issue to it's spies. The British, although James Bond was not real, did in fact issue it to it's agents.(MI-6)

Back to the CZ, even when it was a product of a Iron Curtain country, it was not issued to it's fellow IC countries, the gun was designed and produced for Export, as a income producer. The Soviet Union has the least "control" on the Czechs and they were allowed to get by with things other cold war countries could not. Also, the CZ75 was a communist product until the wall came down in 1989, and most of the Soviet Bloc countries used the Makarov, and the Czechs used the CZ52 until 1982, then went to the CZ82 in 9x18 and only recently have issued the P-01 to the Czech military. The Czechs did not even use the CZ75 themselves!!!
Also remember, the CZ clones were the ones popular in Europe due to the CZ75 not being availible to them for years.

While most of my info came the old fashion way, ie, books, the info is now on the internet, also, I spent many years in the gun business, some has been "acquired knowledge"...lol

 

[revhigh]

the Czechs used the CZ52 until 1982, then went to the CZ82 in 9x18

Good info !! I have both the above guns. 7.62X25 is one HOT round. My 82 is very very accurate for a sub-$200 gun.

If you ever come across data that specifies the top 5 or top 10 worldwide, please post it.

REV

 

[aaronrb204]

The half-cock notch is there for a reason. On the decocker models that is where the hammer is dropped to. In the manual for the safety version it states/shows to lower the hammer to that point. It does make for a shorter/lighter trigger pull. But you would have to thumb it down to that point.

The P-01 is a decocker. So is the PCR which that model was meant to replace. The trigger on the decockers is not nearly as good as those on the B models. B denotes that it has a firing pin safety which the original models did not have. The B is more of a SA/DA pistol in that most carry it cocked & locked but it has second strike capability.

Buy the standard B model or a compact if it fits you better. Buy the SA later if you want a pure range toy.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

FWIW, my AR-24 (clone) will indeed let you apply the safety with the hammer down. Locks up the slide, too. I think the IMI/MR Baby Eagle (another clone) I used to have was like this, too.

-- Sam

 

[3leggeddog]

The half-cock notch is there for a reason. On the decocker models that is where the hammer is dropped to. In the manual for the safety version it states/shows to lower the hammer to that point. It does make for a shorter/lighter trigger pull. But you would have to thumb it down to that point.

The P-01 is a decocker. So is the PCR which that model was meant to replace. The trigger on the decockers is not nearly as good as those on the B models. B denotes that it has a firing pin safety which the original models did not have. The B is more of a SA/DA pistol in that most carry it cocked & locked but it has second strike capability.

Buy the standard B model or a compact if it fits you better. Buy the SA later if you want a pure range toy.

Do to all the great people here who have replied,I now feel more a ease about ordering a CZ75b in the next few days. In a few months I'll try talking the wife into a sub-compact, maybe the Glock 26.
Thanks again my friends!!!!

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Every CZ 75SA that I have shot did not have a FPB installed but some other versions of it may have, there are differences over the history of CZ pistols. I don't own an SA, so I'm not an expert on that gun at all. The removal of the FPB makes it a range gun only no matter who removes it. There are DA/SA CZ guns that don't have or can be had without a FPB, I have one that I did myself and another I bought that way (both SP-01's). You can get a very good description of the current model features off of the CZ Custom web site. I have three decocker CZ's and I don't feel there is a difference from them in SA mode to that of a safety model. You would have a hard time getting something you would not enjoy from a CZ, well that's my opinion anyways.

 

[aaronrb204]

Cheese you are correct in that there are a number of current models that do not have the firing pin block. They do all fall into the competition category though. The cheapest way to get into these is the SA model.

 

[railroader]

I know my SA has the firing pin block but I'm pretty sure the 85 combat doesn't. Mark
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-85-combat/

 

[revhigh]

The cheapest way to get into these is the SA model.

Actually, the cheapest way into a CZ is the 75B in black polycoat. The SA is about 20 bucks more than the 75B DA/SA... not that the $20 matters.

REV

 

[railroader]

Here's the deal on a cz. A p01 for $459
http://www.topgunsupply.com/cz-75-compa ... s-9mm.html

 

[revhigh]

In the manual for the safety version it states/shows to lower the hammer to that point. It does make for a shorter/lighter trigger pull. But you would have to thumb it down to that point.

I have a safety version, and I can tell you that what you say the manual says is not possible. From a cocked position, the hammer can be lowered all the way, but it can not be lowered to the half cock position.

Once the hammer has been lowered 'ALL THE WAY', it can then be 're-cocked' to the half cock position. The trigger pull from the half cocked position is negligably different that doing a DA pull from the 'totally down' position.

The fact that you can carry/tactically use the CZ75B from a 'cocked and locked' postition is primarily why I use my CZ75B and NOT my Sig P226 in the tactical night at my indoor range. The Sig is a decocker, and I hate the difference between DA and SA mode when you're firing tactically against multiple targets. My range requires either a decocked gun, or a gun with the safety on for holstering during tactical shooting nights. Holstering a cocked and 'unlocked' (condition 0) gun is really quite dangerous, where holstering a 'cocked and locked' (condition 1) gun is no big deal.

REV

 

[railroader]

In the manual for the safety version it states/shows to lower the hammer to that point. It does make for a shorter/lighter trigger pull. But you would have to thumb it down to that point.

I have a safety version, and I can tell you that what you say the manual says is not possible. From a cocked position, the hammer can be lowered all the way, but it can not be lowered to the half cock position.

Once the hammer has been lowered 'ALL THE WAY', it can then be 're-cocked' to the half cock position. The trigger pull from the half cocked position is negligably different that doing a DA pull from the 'totally down' position.

The fact that you can carry/tactically use the CZ75B from a 'cocked and locked' postition is primarily why I use my CZ75B and NOT my Sig P226 in the tactical night at my indoor range. The Sig is a decocker, and I hate the difference between DA and SA mode when you're firing tactically against multiple targets. My range requires either a decocked gun, or a gun with the safety on for holstering during tactical shooting nights. Holstering a cocked and 'unlocked' (condition 0) gun is really quite dangerous, where holstering a 'cocked and locked' (condition 1) gun is no big deal.

REV

That's why I got my CZ was for shooting matches. Starting out shooting single action is a lot faster than starting out with the hammer down. They won't let you start with the hammer cocked and no safety on. Mark

 

[aaronrb204]

Rev: As far as the cost comment I was referring to what they classify as their competition pistols. And I am sorry that I missed the step in properly lowering the hammer and bringing it to half-cock.

 

[jtf650]

I have a safety version, and I can tell you that what you say the manual says is not possible. From a cocked position, the hammer can be lowered all the way, but it can not be lowered to the half cock position.
REV

That's odd- the hammer on my 75B stainless ('07 manufacture) can be lowered to half cock from the full cock position.

Somebody asked earlier about the differences between the stainless and polycoat versions. The stainless has an ambidextrous safety (which means Crimson Trace laser grips won't work on the stainless), and the rubber grips are different- supposedly a little slimmer. There are newer versions of the stainless (e.g. polished) that have a longer beavertail- not sure if that is the new standard.

 

[revhigh]

That's odd- the hammer on my 75B stainless ('07 manufacture) can be lowered to half cock from the full cock position.

aaron and jtf !

You guys are absolutely right, and I was wrong. I just went down to check my SS75B, and it WAS NOT possible to lower the hammer to half cock.

Then I thought .... WAIT ... I wonder if after you press the trigger to release the hammer, if you THEN RELEASE THE TRIGGER ... will it stop at half cock ?? Sure enough ... it DID. I then released the hammer while HOLDING the trigger pulled, and it went all the way down as I said before. Then I went and checked my black poly 75B, and it acted exactly the same way.

I never thought to release (let go of) the trigger while actually lowering the hammer to see if it would stop half way, since I usually lower the hammer completely anyway. You learn something new every day .

Good catch jtf, and my apologies for disagreeing with what aaron posted. He was absolutely right.

I'm still not sure about what implications this has about carrying with the hammer all the way down, if at all. Is there still a FPB ? Or is the half cock meant to act as the FPB ?? I wonder if the hammer is down on a live round, if you hit the hammer hard, or dropped the gun on the hammer, would the gun fire ?? I'd think not on the 'B' models, but I don't know for sure. I may test it with a primed empty case next time I reload 9's.

REV

 

[3leggeddog]

That's odd- the hammer on my 75B stainless ('07 manufacture) can be lowered to half cock from the full cock position.

aaron and jtf !

You guys are absolutely right, and I was wrong. I just went down to check my SS75B, and it WAS NOT possible to lower the hammer to half cock.

Then I thought .... WAIT ... I wonder if after you press the trigger to release the hammer, if you THEN RELEASE THE TRIGGER ... will it stop at half cock ?? Sure enough ... it DID. I then released the hammer while HOLDING the trigger pulled, and it went all the way down as I said before. Then I went and checked my black poly 75B, and it acted exactly the same way.

I never thought to release (let go of) the trigger while actually lowering the hammer to see if it would stop half way, since I usually lower the hammer completely anyway. You learn something new every day .

Good catch jtf, and my apologies for disagreeing with what aaron posted. He was absolutely right.

I'm still not sure about what implications this has about carrying with the hammer all the way down, if at all. Is there still a FPB ? Or is the half cock meant to act as the FPB ?? I wonder if the hammer is down on a live round, if you hit the hammer hard, or dropped the gun on the hammer, would the gun fire ?? I'd think not on the 'B' models, but I don't know for sure. I may test it with a primed empty case next time I reload 9's.

REV

So, then the safey can only be set when gun is at FULL cock or half cock? Then theres no lowering the hammer to half cock while a safey is on,correct?
#2 Is the best way to unload it, go to half cock ,drop the mag, then rack the slide all the way back to kick out the live round?

 

[revhigh]

1. So, then the safey can only be set when gun is at FULL cock or half cock?

2. Then theres no lowering the hammer to half cock while a safey is on,correct?

3. Is the best way to unload it, go to half cock ,drop the mag, then rack the slide all the way back to kick out the live round?

I'll tell you what MY guns can and cannot do ....

1. My safety can ONLY be applied if the hammer is at FULL COCK.

2. Correct. With the safety ON, the trigger will NOT release the hammer to go to half cock or hammer down position.

3. Assuming that the gun's hammer is cocked (or half cocked), like if you were trying to unload it halfway through a mag, I would .... drop the mag, and rack the slide, thus ejecting the chambered round. If the hammer was down on a live round (for DA carry, for example), I would .... drop the mag, and rack the slide, ejecting the chambered round.

IF THE SAFETY IS ON, THE SLIDE IS LOCKED, and cannot be racked.

During ANY unloading process, strict trigger finger discipline must be maintained, meaning COMPLETELY OUTSIDE the trigger guard. In the tactical training I took, TRIGGER FINGER CONTROL, and MUZZLE DIRECTION CONTROL are THE two most important facets of the training. Not having your finger inside the trigger guard except when the gun is extended for firing, and muzzle control, meaning ALWAYS downrange, and NEVER sweeping a body part ... like the support hand, is paramount to passing the assessment and being able to shoot in the tactical competitions.

I have to say that the way the CZ75B works, is EXACTLY the way that I would WANT it to work, if I could design it myself. Which is to say ... just like a 1911, without the half cock concept. The ability to drop the hammer to half cock is irrelevant to ME, but may be relevant to others, in which case, EVERYBODY gets to have it THEIR way ... kind of like Burger King !

REV

 

[3leggeddog]

1. So, then the safey can only be set when gun is at FULL cock or half cock?

2. Then theres no lowering the hammer to half cock while a safey is on,correct?

3. Is the best way to unload it, go to half cock ,drop the mag, then rack the slide all the way back to kick out the live round?

I'll tell you what MY guns can and cannot do ....

1. My safety can ONLY be applied if the hammer is at FULL COCK.

2. Correct. With the safety ON, the trigger will NOT release the hammer to go to half cock or hammer down position.

3. Assuming that the gun's hammer is cocked (or half cocked), like if you were trying to unload it halfway through a mag, I would .... drop the mag, and rack the slide, thus ejecting the chambered round. If the hammer was down on a live round (for DA carry, for example), I would .... drop the mag, and rack the slide, ejecting the chambered round.

IF THE SAFETY IS ON, THE SLIDE IS LOCKED, and cannot be racked.

During ANY unloading process, strict trigger finger discipline must be maintained, meaning COMPLETELY OUTSIDE the trigger guard. In the tactical training I took, TRIGGER FINGER CONTROL, and MUZZLE DIRECTION CONTROL are THE two most important facets of the training. Not having your finger inside the trigger guard except when the gun is extended for firing, and muzzle control, meaning ALWAYS downrange, and NEVER sweeping a body part ... like the support hand, is paramount to passing the assessment and being able to shoot in the tactical competitions.

I have to say that the way the CZ75B works, is EXACTLY the way that I would WANT it to work, if I could design it myself. Which is to say ... just like a 1911, without the half cock concept. The ability to drop the hammer to half cock is irrelevant to ME, but may be relevant to others, in which case, EVERYBODY gets to have it THEIR way ... kind of like Burger King !

REV

Thanks , I save this to my Documents!
:lol: Can I ask 1 more? What holster do you use for tactial drills at your club?? Is this the same one for carry? I must owe you a case of beer by now-lolol....

 

[revhigh]

What holster do you use for tactial drills at your club?? Is this the same one for carry? I must owe you a case of beer by now-lolol....

You're welcome ... glad to help when/if I can ... if we ever meet, you can buy me a beer LOL.

I use a Fobus belt kydex holster for my CZ75B, the same for my Sig P226, and for my 1911's, I use a Blackhawk Serpa. I tried to use Fobus paddle holsters for the CZ and the Sig, but I found that they pull upwards too far when unholstering, and I didn't want to 'stretch' the plastic to loosen the fit.

I'd like to have a BH Serpa for the CZ75B, by far my first choice, but alas, BH does not make a Serpa for the CZ75B (which REALLY ticks me off).

For carry, I use a Ross pocket guard for my G26, and a DeSantis Nemesis for my KT P3AT.

REV

 

[railroader]

http://www.copquest.com/23-2550.htm This the holster I use for my cz. It's adjustable for tension and it will also work with a 1911. Here's another that would work http://www.copquest.com/23-2575.htm Mark