sixshot
Buckeye
Very good report Lee & great shooting as usual. That H110 velocity is amazing!
Dick
Dick
194 gr Bradshaw-Martin SWC GC
- Thread starter Lee Martin
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Lee Martin
Hunter
David replaced .130" sights with .107" front and .091" rear in effort to read bullet @ 100 & 200 yards. The jury is still out, as a couple of smooth days are bracketed by winds which have time to muscle a revolver bullet at the distance of one and two football fields.
Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC over18.5/IMR 4227, as David tries to sort out his sight picture against a slanting wind @ 100 yards.
Dope on Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC in Ruger .357 Maximum, from David's notebook. Pig at lower left plots five shots @ 100 yards: 4-clicks left windage. Tiny post sketched on shoulder shows Point of Aim. Sight actually covers 2/3-pig. 5x5=3.7"; 4x5=1.9" @ 100 yds.
This is the star 2 Dogs talks about, except his one is fusion of combustion & powder coating——not grease. Comes off on your finger.
Easy to swap front sights on the Ruger Maximum Bull 10-1/2". Clear fingernail polish (evident on barrel) secures sight base and screw. This blade measures .107" wide.
Wind drift, fortunately a very steady breeze. Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC over 18.5/IMR 4227 drifts seven inches @ 100 yards. Cartridge indicates Point of Aim. Ruer sights: front .107";
5x5=4.8" @ 100 yards, with 4x5 into 2.9-inches. Front sight centered just above front leg, suggesting 7-inches drift on wind, which shifted without choppiness from 1 o'clock to 3 0'clock. Despite horizontal dispersion, group indicates wind held steady from same direction for these shots.
Five rounds of cast powder coat Maximums, ready to go. 1.605-inch case with light roll crimp on front band, still considered deep seating. A heavy roll crimp is unnecessary and is apt to swell brass immediately behind mouth of case. 18.5/IMR 4227, WSR, Sized in Redding carbide .357 Maximum die. Carbide dies tend to leave visible ring at web. Strong neck tension.
Maximum "barrel action" with cylinders. Torn down for cleaning and to tune hammer & trigger. Frame, barrel, cylinders cleaned up quickly, even less fowling than from jacketed bullets.
A short, 11-degree forcing cone on Ruger .357 Maximum. Fouling from cast, powder coat Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC, mostly over 18.5/IMR 4227.
Cuts in back of Maximum frame mate to lugs on the "ears" of gripframe. These cuts in the frame , along with lugs on the "ears" of the gripframe, allow revolver to be test-assembled using only the forward grip frame screw.
Blackhawk Maximum gripframe. Triangular lugs at base of grip frame "ears" index cuts in cylinder frame. Arrangement enhances stability of gripframe to frame.
Ruger Maximum used gripframe, hammer & trigger borrowed from Super Blackhawk. All trigger jobs on SRM prototype Maximums were done by Bradshaw, mostly on Ruger's coffee table. Ruger mechanics in Southport inspected the guns after shooting sessions in New Hampshire. On re-assembly, new lockwork was installed, each requiring a trigger job. David quickly learned to remove his trigger jobs before their return to Southport. Thus, following each trip, David reinstalled his trigger job in each gun to be shot. David kept lockwork from a number of the SRM's, with one such hammer seen here. Shiny areas indicate metal removal (done in 1981-'82). Flat appearance of large rectangle is an optical illusion; the "trigger ramp" is arced.
SRM hammer removed from Maximum 600-00018: hammer beginning to "kick" during April 2018 shooting session with Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC. Hammer & trigger each touched up with Eze-Lap fine diamond "stone," and Spyderco white ceramic "stone." Note original Ruger coffee table trigger job——done by David with a file. At that time (1981), engagement surface of HAMMER DOG was not touched.
Pawl (left) and transfer bar from first production Maximum assembled. Light polish on ratchet side of pawl as manufactured. As with hammer & trigger, the pawl and transfer bar (along with frame, gripframe, and loading gate) were investment cast in Newport, New Hampshire, shipped to Southport, Connecticut for machining and assembly.
Lee Martin
Hunter
12.0 of Blue Dot with the 194 gr Bradshaw-Martin SWC:
Using my Lab Radar, velocity was recorded at multiple intervals out to 100 yards:
Muzzle = 1,209 fps
25 yards = 1,155 fps
50 yards = 1,112 fps
75 yards = 1,074 fps
100 yards = 1,041 fps
Surprisingly linear results. The load was light and I suspect it'll take 13.0. However, accuracy with Blue Dot at 100 yards was lackluster. Most spreads were in the 7 to 9 inch range. A typical group from Saturday's session:
This was my best group on the day:
Note:
1) There were no close seconds to the group shown above. This one may have been an outlier….or in other words, luck
2) I only adjusted elevation, leaving windage untouched. On horizontal, the gun hits dead center with my preferred load (18.5 grs of IMR 4227).
More work to do, including trials with HS6 and IMR 4198.
Using my Lab Radar, velocity was recorded at multiple intervals out to 100 yards:
Muzzle = 1,209 fps
25 yards = 1,155 fps
50 yards = 1,112 fps
75 yards = 1,074 fps
100 yards = 1,041 fps
Surprisingly linear results. The load was light and I suspect it'll take 13.0. However, accuracy with Blue Dot at 100 yards was lackluster. Most spreads were in the 7 to 9 inch range. A typical group from Saturday's session:
This was my best group on the day:
Note:
1) There were no close seconds to the group shown above. This one may have been an outlier….or in other words, luck
2) I only adjusted elevation, leaving windage untouched. On horizontal, the gun hits dead center with my preferred load (18.5 grs of IMR 4227).
More work to do, including trials with HS6 and IMR 4198.
David Bradshaw
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2012
- Messages
- 933
Beaucoup thanks Lee, continuing, for publishing my material and yours, and for instigating our project.
When Lee Martin asked me to design a bullet, the dual purpose to combine in one bullet silhouette accuracy with game performance struck me as the proper celebration of Ruger's .357 Maximum. My own experience in taking deer and other game with a sixgun was saturated by the time I learned of and jumped into Handgun Silhouette in 1977.
ACCURACY is the first order of business. Since I'm not a good enough shot to discern much about accuracy @ 25 yards, I rely on throwing lead @ 100 yards, and then 200 yards. Fact is, we may back-draw from one or two hundred yards to see group size @ 25 and 50 yards. A 4-inch group @ 100 yards guarantees a 1-inch group @ 25 yards. The 1-inch group @ 25 yards carries no guarantee the length of a football field. To know, the bullet must be shot. The target is the final arbiter of accuracy.
David Bradshaw
When Lee Martin asked me to design a bullet, the dual purpose to combine in one bullet silhouette accuracy with game performance struck me as the proper celebration of Ruger's .357 Maximum. My own experience in taking deer and other game with a sixgun was saturated by the time I learned of and jumped into Handgun Silhouette in 1977.
ACCURACY is the first order of business. Since I'm not a good enough shot to discern much about accuracy @ 25 yards, I rely on throwing lead @ 100 yards, and then 200 yards. Fact is, we may back-draw from one or two hundred yards to see group size @ 25 and 50 yards. A 4-inch group @ 100 yards guarantees a 1-inch group @ 25 yards. The 1-inch group @ 25 yards carries no guarantee the length of a football field. To know, the bullet must be shot. The target is the final arbiter of accuracy.
David Bradshaw
sixshot
Buckeye
Really good stuff! I think everyone is enjoying this very much, I know I am. I do have one question....how come your lackluster groups are everyone else's "wallet braggers"!!!!!! If you guys & the rest of us keep pumping life into the stretch frame 357 Maximum I hope & pray that Lipsey's or someone will see the light & bring it back, it's just too good to not be available as a catalog item. Come on Jason!! I'll take him on an elk or bear hunt if he brings it back.
We got snow & rain today, no shooting for me, bummer!
Dick
We got snow & rain today, no shooting for me, bummer!
Dick
I too enjoy hearing of how this project is developing! Hopefully the people who would benefit financially will see that this is a viable platform to produce.
gramps
gramps
There is nothing I like better than the 357 Maximum.
Well maybe it's reading Lee and David do their stuff with the Max.
My own path has led me to the Magnum Research Lone Eagle, the T/C Contender, G2, and Encore rifle, the Ruger SRM, Dan Wesson models 40 and 740, and the United Sporting Arms Seville.
They each have a little slice of heaven that only variety can bring. Some are better shooters than others, but they are all fun, fun, fun.
Handloads are now a great hobby all unto themselves. Reading Lee's and David's bullet development, production, and testing is incredibly exciting. Having these two Pros in your caliber camp makes legitimacy a natural. Now if we can only get someone to listen.
Prescut
Well maybe it's reading Lee and David do their stuff with the Max.
My own path has led me to the Magnum Research Lone Eagle, the T/C Contender, G2, and Encore rifle, the Ruger SRM, Dan Wesson models 40 and 740, and the United Sporting Arms Seville.
They each have a little slice of heaven that only variety can bring. Some are better shooters than others, but they are all fun, fun, fun.
Handloads are now a great hobby all unto themselves. Reading Lee's and David's bullet development, production, and testing is incredibly exciting. Having these two Pros in your caliber camp makes legitimacy a natural. Now if we can only get someone to listen.
Prescut
contender
Ruger Guru
I keep looking at this thread,,, studying, and learning more & more. Owning a few of these Maxi's myself,,, it's intriguing to see all this info AND history. I will be having one of these molds built soon. Then I will try & see about getting similar performance out of mine. I often preach; "The devil is in the details" about a lot of things,,, but here,, the details are shining examples of that exact point.
Keep on posting as much as y'all can on this. It's invaluable!
Keep on posting as much as y'all can on this. It's invaluable!
Joe S.
Hunter
Good info! Thanks for putting in this work.
Lee Martin
Hunter
Bradshaw Report #3
______________________________
Ruger .357 Maximum poses beside groove cut through grass and soil after punching target board @ 100 yards. The Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC tracks rather tenaciously.
Steel rear sight from SRM experimental days: note excessively wide notch.
Wide notch removed from Ruger sight. Narrow, hand-cut blade with .065" notch (right), also from in Southport factory. Bradshaw swapping SRM prototype sights in search for a clear sight picture @ 100 & beyond.
Steel sight with .065" notch and the old 8-click elevation screw (8-clicks per revolution). Note large, unthreaded hole in sight base. Adjustment clicks apt to be more positive than with 16-click screw.
Steel rear sight, ready for assembly with hand -cut narrow notch. All adjustable parts are greased before assembly. Oil acceptable. Dry sight not acceptable.
Rear sight on Maximum.
Narrow front sight, also from SRM prototype experiments in 1981, installed, to compliment narrow notch. Target blade .111-inch wide. And low, too low. With rear sight screwed down to bottom detent, low front sight set Bradshaw-Martins 194's 4.6-inches high @25 yards. Plenty to put shooter over the board @ 100 yards.
Low front sight——too low——.291" from top of blade to bottom of base.
Holding where front leg of pig joins body——rear sight on bottom detent----Point of Impact (POI) jukes 4.6-inches high @ 25 yards. Cocktailing sight picture will not do for long range consistency; low front must go
______________________________
Ruger .357 Maximum poses beside groove cut through grass and soil after punching target board @ 100 yards. The Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC tracks rather tenaciously.
Steel rear sight from SRM experimental days: note excessively wide notch.
Wide notch removed from Ruger sight. Narrow, hand-cut blade with .065" notch (right), also from in Southport factory. Bradshaw swapping SRM prototype sights in search for a clear sight picture @ 100 & beyond.
Steel sight with .065" notch and the old 8-click elevation screw (8-clicks per revolution). Note large, unthreaded hole in sight base. Adjustment clicks apt to be more positive than with 16-click screw.
Steel rear sight, ready for assembly with hand -cut narrow notch. All adjustable parts are greased before assembly. Oil acceptable. Dry sight not acceptable.
Rear sight on Maximum.
Narrow front sight, also from SRM prototype experiments in 1981, installed, to compliment narrow notch. Target blade .111-inch wide. And low, too low. With rear sight screwed down to bottom detent, low front sight set Bradshaw-Martins 194's 4.6-inches high @25 yards. Plenty to put shooter over the board @ 100 yards.
Low front sight——too low——.291" from top of blade to bottom of base.
Holding where front leg of pig joins body——rear sight on bottom detent----Point of Impact (POI) jukes 4.6-inches high @ 25 yards. Cocktailing sight picture will not do for long range consistency; low front must go
contender
Ruger Guru
More excellent stuff here.
Joe S.
Hunter
Hey i know that feeling. Haha
I filed a Single Six sight to about the same shape but about 0.495" tall. It's a little bit better.
I filed a Single Six sight to about the same shape but about 0.495" tall. It's a little bit better.
You're killing me with that plum color on the Max. Absolutely beautiful. Something a little different.
I'm a freak, I love that reddish purple tone.
and I've got a hawgleg with that same low front-sight ailment, so I can't wait for the next installment in this weekly serial drama of how you guys handle it. David gave me some excellent advice on lighter weight bullets going faster to bring down a point of impact.
It worked well, but in the end, the question of custom ammo for the one gun, or changing the front sight is still unanswered. I think we would all prefer to use the same ammo across all your guns if possible.
so, Please keep it coming guys. If you could toss in a few shots of the front sight work, it would be great.
For Maximum junkies, it doesn't get any better than this.
Prescut
I'm a freak, I love that reddish purple tone.
and I've got a hawgleg with that same low front-sight ailment, so I can't wait for the next installment in this weekly serial drama of how you guys handle it. David gave me some excellent advice on lighter weight bullets going faster to bring down a point of impact.
It worked well, but in the end, the question of custom ammo for the one gun, or changing the front sight is still unanswered. I think we would all prefer to use the same ammo across all your guns if possible.
so, Please keep it coming guys. If you could toss in a few shots of the front sight work, it would be great.
For Maximum junkies, it doesn't get any better than this.
Prescut
Joe S.
Hunter
Prescut
You need to get in touch with 2 dogs. He has just the thing for your low front sight ailments…
You need to get in touch with 2 dogs. He has just the thing for your low front sight ailments…
David Bradshaw
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2012
- Messages
- 933
Tyrone, Prescut, Joe, thank you for the kind words.
Prescut.... I do not wax Pavlovian over the exotic plum color. Much prefer the hot blue, which, really abounds this revolver. The plum in photos is more an aspect of lighting; while also, as others have remarked, a factor of the blue aging. Bill Ruger said, "The plum color is unintentional, it just happens. The bluing and the steel."
Blackhawk Maximum 600-00018 was reblued at the time Ruger fit a second barrel and cylinder. All these guns and all experimental parts were made in Southport, which you guys know, while newer shooters may not. Bill Ruger, Jr., and I shot Maximums once in Connecticut, somewhere on woods property, not a range. Otherwise, nearly all testing was done on the Ruger estate in New Hampshire. I had SRM-4 for a good while in Vermont, always bringing it with me on return trips to Newport, New Hampshire. Shot a couple of other SRM's in Vermont, guns not on extended loan.
After a session of murderous testing in New Hampshire, SRM's were returned to Southport for examination. Nothing was ever found lacking in their strength. My handloads generally were lighter than the experimental Rocks & Dynamite we poured through the sixguns behind Bill Ruger's New Hampshire house. The picture I took of Bill Ruger shooting SRM-2 involved hot experimental Remington ammo. Bill didn't blink at these loads. Progressive rheumatoid arthritis made it difficult to form a shooting grip. With his crumpled fingers on the Super Blackhawk stock, he squeezed off an excellent group @ 100 yards----a task impossible without FOLLOW THROUGH. Perhaps the cool hand Bill applied to shifting gears in his smooth-as-cream 1929 Bently tourer, his Ruger Mobile, or rocket propelled Ferrari provided the cool follow through for firing his .357 Maximum.
I have sufficient SRM and production sights to swap for zeroing the Maximum. While I suggested Lee try the Bowen Target on his Maximum, my aim is to stick with Ruger sights for now. I just have to balance widths with my 73 year old eyes. 18.5/IMR 4227 has planted the powder coated Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC Gas Check into 2-inches @ 100 yards. This can happen in a very light breeze which does not waver. A single puff throws a shot enough to ruin a cluster.
Nearly always I call my shot. It is an important aspect of OWNING the BULLET to HIT and to build consistency. Overcast, of course, eases sight alignment (there is no front-sight-only crap in this game). My last few sessions have shot bright sun. Sunlight generally pulls POI. The opposite can also be true on handgun sights, depending on which sight surface loads GLARE. The eye tries to pinch off glare in order to balance the appearance of the front sight in the rear notch.
Sight picture is an issue unto itself.
David Bradshaw
Prescut.... I do not wax Pavlovian over the exotic plum color. Much prefer the hot blue, which, really abounds this revolver. The plum in photos is more an aspect of lighting; while also, as others have remarked, a factor of the blue aging. Bill Ruger said, "The plum color is unintentional, it just happens. The bluing and the steel."
Blackhawk Maximum 600-00018 was reblued at the time Ruger fit a second barrel and cylinder. All these guns and all experimental parts were made in Southport, which you guys know, while newer shooters may not. Bill Ruger, Jr., and I shot Maximums once in Connecticut, somewhere on woods property, not a range. Otherwise, nearly all testing was done on the Ruger estate in New Hampshire. I had SRM-4 for a good while in Vermont, always bringing it with me on return trips to Newport, New Hampshire. Shot a couple of other SRM's in Vermont, guns not on extended loan.
After a session of murderous testing in New Hampshire, SRM's were returned to Southport for examination. Nothing was ever found lacking in their strength. My handloads generally were lighter than the experimental Rocks & Dynamite we poured through the sixguns behind Bill Ruger's New Hampshire house. The picture I took of Bill Ruger shooting SRM-2 involved hot experimental Remington ammo. Bill didn't blink at these loads. Progressive rheumatoid arthritis made it difficult to form a shooting grip. With his crumpled fingers on the Super Blackhawk stock, he squeezed off an excellent group @ 100 yards----a task impossible without FOLLOW THROUGH. Perhaps the cool hand Bill applied to shifting gears in his smooth-as-cream 1929 Bently tourer, his Ruger Mobile, or rocket propelled Ferrari provided the cool follow through for firing his .357 Maximum.
I have sufficient SRM and production sights to swap for zeroing the Maximum. While I suggested Lee try the Bowen Target on his Maximum, my aim is to stick with Ruger sights for now. I just have to balance widths with my 73 year old eyes. 18.5/IMR 4227 has planted the powder coated Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC Gas Check into 2-inches @ 100 yards. This can happen in a very light breeze which does not waver. A single puff throws a shot enough to ruin a cluster.
Nearly always I call my shot. It is an important aspect of OWNING the BULLET to HIT and to build consistency. Overcast, of course, eases sight alignment (there is no front-sight-only crap in this game). My last few sessions have shot bright sun. Sunlight generally pulls POI. The opposite can also be true on handgun sights, depending on which sight surface loads GLARE. The eye tries to pinch off glare in order to balance the appearance of the front sight in the rear notch.
Sight picture is an issue unto itself.
David Bradshaw
contender
Ruger Guru
Excellent details here David. Things like this are priceless to all shooters.
Excellent reading men thanks for all the details both on the sights and conditions we all shoot in, these are things everyone needs to learn and concider, but most don't listen from other shooters, you guy's though the do. This thread is very good reading!
David Bradshaw
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2012
- Messages
- 933
wildcatter..... thank you for the kind words. Lee and I both have shot challenging conditions the last few months, Lee certainly in his bench rest matches, while i've only been able to snow & cold for wind. Told Lee we would print a word until we both shot the Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC in our Blackhawk Maximums out to 100 yards, and my shooting had to include 200 yards. We have tapered off our initial ambition to try a variety of powders, settling on 4227 for now. IMR 4227 and Hodgdon 4227 quickly became my first powder during handload development in experimental .357 Maximum brass. My second powder for accuracy was Winchester 680, for which Accurate Arms 1680 is the substitute.
We'll get back to other powders once we collect more dope on how the bullet tracks. I have yet to see a sign of yaw on targets at 100 & 200 yards.
Providing we generate dope for serious marksmanship, we should be able to drag along a few aspiring handgunners just sticking their toes in the water.
David Bradshaw
We'll get back to other powders once we collect more dope on how the bullet tracks. I have yet to see a sign of yaw on targets at 100 & 200 yards.
Providing we generate dope for serious marksmanship, we should be able to drag along a few aspiring handgunners just sticking their toes in the water.
David Bradshaw
You been doing that for many decades David, You were one of my first influences on long rand hand gunning over 45 years ago. Back then when I would load a coffee can of ammo all night casting and loading just to go the next day and blast my horde of ammo out over a wide river bottom 100 to over 300 yards, it was a ball chasing ground hogs after you let them wonder away from their dens,, even sometimes Nailing one. But learning real quick where to hold with the wind, and how the sun would change the POI from the way it was hitting sights, shadows, clouds, all the little things so many feel is irrelevant.
Back then my friends though it was bull, thought I was crazy a handgun was made for close range, and I was just lucky at times. Today them same friends ask how can you do that. But as you know, it ain't something you learn over night, and at our age we are greatful we learned young, and spent all them hours figuring out how and why, because today I ask what is wrong I used to do much better than that. Good to see you keep doing what you've done for so long,,, inspiring others, and making them understand, handguns are only efficient at short range if you choose to use them at that distance. Plus there is a lit more to long range hand gunning than buying a powerful revolver and hot ammo! There were others as well, but handgun silhouette really had my interest back then in the early 70's.
Back then my friends though it was bull, thought I was crazy a handgun was made for close range, and I was just lucky at times. Today them same friends ask how can you do that. But as you know, it ain't something you learn over night, and at our age we are greatful we learned young, and spent all them hours figuring out how and why, because today I ask what is wrong I used to do much better than that. Good to see you keep doing what you've done for so long,,, inspiring others, and making them understand, handguns are only efficient at short range if you choose to use them at that distance. Plus there is a lit more to long range hand gunning than buying a powerful revolver and hot ammo! There were others as well, but handgun silhouette really had my interest back then in the early 70's.
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