#1 in 222 update

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GRAMPS 51

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Hi just got off the phone with ruger records im BUMMED OUT it shipped in march of 1981 as a #1A in 7x57 the dealer sold the gun used about 20 years ago to a friend it was in 222 then boy to look at it I would have sworn it was shipped that way :(

GRAMPS
 

HAWKEYE#28

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Sorry to hear that , Gramps. Good thing you called to inquire. For all of us, it cntinues to prove that we cannot always believe what we hear, and in some cases, even that what we see. "Stuff" happens over time and in many cases, "it" has been done/converted/modified/ built very well. I am echoing that which My Friend, RugerGuy has noted many times in our Forum. SPLITZ
 

picketpin

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Friends, friends, Michael you have "friends" ?? :)

Gramps on one score I guess I have to be okay with my knowledge base/skeptasism. On the other hand I too sure wish it had been the real deal!!! It would have given us all a new Holy Grail gun to look for and frankly it or one like it sure would look nifty with the non prefix 222s.

On the "Stuff Happens" idea. I have 2 non prefix "AH"s in 222 and at one point, long before I actually "collected" #1s or had any interist in rarity or scarcity I had thought seriously about putting a factory "A" rib, barrel band and a factory front sight off a dismantled 243 "A" on one of them. To be honest Nothing stopped me other than time. Of course in the glare of 20/20 hindsight I'm glad I didn't do it.

The "USED" "AH" in 222 with a little Burris Mini 3x9 on it is one of my all time favorite walking around varmint rifles.

Sorry this one didn't work out for you and thank you for the information and taking the time and trouble to find out and pass the information on.

the very best

Ross
 

gewehrfreund

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I have to say I'm not too surprised, but I am still a little confused (my normal state).
You made it sound like this gun has a Ruger factory barrel on it, and I'm curious what made you think that. Does it have all the standard rollmarkings for a 1981 #1 barrel? If it started out as a 7x57 it obviously couldn't have been used to make it a 222. If it is a factory 222 barrel (and in that case it would have to be a non-prefix barrel), then it was an extremely rare one (AH with sights), or someone added the sights when they did the rebarrel job. Is there any way you can provide some pictures of the pertinent areas of the barrel? Thanks again for the investigative work.
LC
 

GRAMPS 51

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Hi I hope to get over to the shop where it is this weekend I am a teribil photographer but will try to get pictures if I can

GRAMPS
 

GRAMPS 51

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Hi Well I got over to the dealer today and got to look at it a little closer it is definatly not a ruger barrel it has the ruger quarter rib ruger front sight the cal stamping is the same as other rugers I have but there is no ruger rollmark :oops: Sorry I should have looked closer I was in a big hurry that day

GRAMPS
 

picketpin

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Makes more sense now. I too might have been excited enough to hear of it to gloss over a few details at first glance.

Thanks again foir the time and trouble taken to keep us posted.

At the RIGHT price it might be fun to pick up as a straight shooter. I know I sure like mine sans sights. The dealer should be willing to make a deal seeing as it isn't factory and in reality is simply a "USED" #1, albeit and interesting one.

Ross
 

GRAMPS 51

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Hi ROSS I am thinking about it real hard I realy like it but dont realy know what a rebarreled gun is worth I also thought about trying to find a 7x57 barrel to make it original

GRAMPS
 

chet15

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I would still be inquisitive about that rifle. Ruger has left the rollmark off many of their barrels in the past...most of the time because the step was stimply forgotten....but many times because the gun was built as some sort of prototype and just didn't make it to that step of rollmarking. You will want to compare an early #1 .222 rollmark very closely with the caliber rollmark on your gun (Get down on the rollmark with a magnifying glass if you have to). It still doesn't mean that somebody wouldn't have taken the .222 barrel off another gun and put it on yours, but????
And be sure that looks like a factory front sight. Of course, it still doesn't mean anybody couldn't put a Ruger sight on, but if its not a Ruger style sight....you've eliminated your possibilities of it being correct.
Anybody know if the extractors are different in a 7x57 than the .222?
I've just seen or heard of too many things that shouldn't exist....that did come out of the factory.
And I've also heard of a bunch of guns that went through the doors with box labels saying something different than what is inside the box. Remember that whatever the employee sees on the packaging is how the gun gets listed in the shipping records.
Chet15
 

chet15

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Well, I'd just hate to see somebody get rid of something or not purchase something because what a gun looks like seems to go against all of the teachings of the past (the known stuff).
Bet one of our well-known RF members would like to go back in time and buy that nickled Super Single-Six that had a non-nickled grip frame. He didn't think it was right (because it wasn't "like" all the others that had been reported), but turns out Ruger really did make a few factory nickled Super Single-Sixes with black anodized grip frames.
Twenty years ago when we were told about a Super Blackhawk serial number 15528 that had small serial numbers and a flattop round mortised rear sight on it I'm sure most people would have said somebody's "played" with that one. Gun turned out to be one of the first two true "prototype" Super Blackhawks produced. Purchased on a "hunch" because it also had an offset ejector rod housing.
With Ruger anything is possible, and the pros and cons of something lke this need considered before the notion is completely discredited....or you could end up kicking yourself because you missed out on a "buy of the century".
You know, there are non-prefix Number 1's out there with factory produced ebony forend tips too. How many of you would think those are right? Or would you pass on it thinking they're not factory?
I've also got a xerox here of two guns .30 Carbine Blackhawks a dealer friend of mine received with the box label saying catalog number KBNVXR-34 Ruger model 10505 in .357 Mag, serial numbers 51-42397 and 51-42398. What the heck is that? Well...the KBNVXR-34 was a model Ruger was thinking of making and only made a few prototypes....a two-tone high polish stainless Vaquero with blue parts and "smaller" grip frame. Well, inside the box was two normal .30 Blackhawks. But I'll bet somebody a dollar that those two guns "letter" as KBNVXR-34! That's my point. Just because the end label says what the gun is supposed to be inside the box, don't mean its necessarily so.
Kinda the same with most of the 80- prefix brass frame Super Blackhawks too, eh?
Chet15
 

chet15

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GRAMPS51:
Just saw your initial post on this gun and that the owner has "RUGER EMPLOYEE" ties. Gives it even more credence in my mind. Now you need some history as to how it came about.
Chet15
 

picketpin

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GRamps: Buy the darn thing. Explain it won't letter and see if the price comes down. Even if it doesn't you could not build it or re-barrel it for the asking price.

I can send you a picture of the caliber designation on my non prefix #1s in 222 to compare.

Yes, look at the sights, another issue that recently popped up on a rifle but turned out to be incorrect for a factory rifle.

For what it's worth if you try and letter my first 257 Roberts it comes back as a 6mm Remington. Long and convuluted story but "I" know where and when it shipped and who ordered it shipped to me. Can I ever prove that to everybodies satisfaction, probably not.

As to the question regarding extractors, YES the 222 has a different extractor than the 7x57 but extractors are easy to change out and get.

I have to get to town and get a MO off to Michael for the "sighted" 6mm "B" this week. But if you should buy the 222 and decide it's just a shooter and you want to turn it and get your money back, I'd be happy to give it a home and hunt with it.

The barrel, check it against another factory "A" barrel all the way on the profile. Most guys that re-barrel buy the barrel makers "Light Sporter" profile and seldom actually have the factory profile duplicated as that costs extra money. If you need, I can mike a non prefix factory "A" barrel in 222 and give you the demensions each inch.

Just because I recently inquired on a 257 Roberts that had been "Improved", the factory would re-barrel to 7x57 for $396.40, installed, if a guy wanted to go that way.

Ross

Lots of orphan and "Unoriginal" #1s reside at my house. :)
 

roofinspector

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The rifle in this style appeals to a lot of shooters. Something about the compactness and the iron sights we never seem to use, but gotta have.

The 222 is just a nice caliber, mild in report and has the proven reputation for intrinsic accuracy capabilities. Walker knew all of that.

Not a collector here, but if one looks at the numbers in general sense,..............

buy the doner 1a rifle 450-550.

Purchase the aftermarket premium barrel blank for around 150 in C.M. (most aftermarket barrel guys offer the exact contour at no additional cost if said contour is in their files already, the No.1A has been around a while).

150 to breech it up(has the clocking of the extractor recess).

Remove sights from old barrel, rib and banded sight and put on new barrel, 100. The original front would have the boring bar touch to keep in tact(new band sight from Ruger is about 60). Trade off in labor versus new rough parts.

Blue the sights and barrel, hot blue or rust, 50.

Change out the extractor, 10.

So the original price might be a bit high in most places, but if the work is done nicely and you are ready...............some will buy it anyway.

Perhaps a shorter way is to buy a No.1S in 218 bee and rechamber to 222 or 223, but will have the 26" barrel; unless you opt for shortening the barrel and redoing the front sight.


With all of that said, the rifle on the rack with these things done to it, probably will not bring much above a doner rifle price to most, however if the right guy walks in, then it might bring 650 or so in my opinion.
 
A

Anonymous

I've been watching your post with some interest as it is sort of an intriguing gun in it's own right. A 1A in 222 would be a neat little rifle to have. The problem I see is the guy wants a collectable price for a shooter. I would agree that $550 to $600 would be about right . As to buying it and converting it back to 7x57 that seems like a bad idea since the 7x57 isn't very hard to find and could be bought for about the same price. If you buy a barrel and have it put on you would be looking at $200-$300 in cost over the cost of the gun which makes little sense to me. In any case $850 is out of line unless you are dying for a 1A in 222.
 

chet15

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Itchy":21yx1rrq said:
In any case $850 is out of line unless you are dying for a 1A in 222.


Or....unless some sort of documentation can be had that says the gun left the factory that way originally. If those involved are all still alive today, its worth a shot.
A prefixed number 1 in .222 has long been described as a super rare rifle....ever since Clayton's book came out. As I remember it there were only 1 or two ever made with the prefix serial number.
And anyway, who's to say Ruger didn't have an extra barrel laying around somewhere? Somewhere there's a #1 in .225 Win still laying around at the factory too!! :shock:
Chet15
 

chet15

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Hey, here's another tidbit for you...probably doesn't mean anything because I don't know what the sn on your gun is, or when it was made...but how many people knew the 1/4/71 Distributor price sheet lists the 1-B in .222? First I can recall seeing that. Its not listed in my 1970 Distributor or Dealer price sheets. Looked at my 1/4/71 Dealer sheet and there's a blank space where the printer took the ".222" out of the listing.
Interesting stuff.
Chet15
 

picketpin

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Chet: FYI, the .222 "B" is listed in the 1971 Consumer Catalog, the fold out one. As Ruger won't tell us if they really ever built any, I've spent 30+ years looking for one to go with my non prefix .222 "B". To date I have never seen, been offered or actualy heard of anybody that has one.

However, like you said, there is simply no way to know for sure that it isn't real. Is my 257 Roberts non prefix "Real". I gues it depends on whether you believe my convoluted tale or not. Back then it never occurred to me that I was "collecting" #1s so I didn't save everything I should have, though I have some of it including a letter from Clayton offering to buy mine, after he did some reasearch. I talked to a couple of the old timers years ago at the factory while trying to track it down in the 80s, that swore they "remembered" the rifle but like most guys in my then age bracket, never wrote down, dates, names and exact statements.

Sadly after 40 years and 5 or 6 moves the original box is AWOL. Most of the guys are either dead or long since retired.

The part that is funny is I still have ALL the documentation, including the box and hang tag for my original 257 Roberts Model 77 MKI ST, that came on the same day to the same dealer that took delivery of my #1.

Sadly, he has since passed and his daughter couldn't find her dad's old records/books after a lengthy search, as a favor.

For those that doudt the barrels laying aroung idea, my 257 Roberts non prefix shipped in 1972 on a non prefix action with all the early parts but a early forearm. One of my 6mm "B" non prefixes shipped in 1975 on a non prefix action with a first generation butt stock but the internals of the actual action are all those of a 1975 rifle. So, yes, stuff lays around in parts, warranty and just "around".

Gramps, I was serious. If you buy it and decide to not keep it for whatever reason, I'll give you your money back. If you decide to not buy it I really would appreciate a heads up and a chance to buy it.

If it turns out to be RARE, great. If it doesn't it would still make a nifty shooter and look great with my factory #1s in 222.

I do know I could NOT buy a $500 parts rifle and put a Shilen tube on it and have the rest of the work done from scratch for any less than the asking price.

The very best

Ross W Thomas
 

GRAMPS 51

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Hi Hey ROSS if you would send a picture of the stamp to my email I just got back from looking at it again I think the cal numbers are to blocky anyway I made an offer and he will let me know the gun is on consignment so I wont know untill Tuesday I will let you know

GRAMPS
 
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