Bear protection advice needed

annasophia · Aug 4, 2010

I fully agree with you there. Being a female isn't easy these days in civilization....I haven't had too many bears hitting on my and trying to get a phone number! I'm out in the mountains to have fun and enjoy what God gave me to enjoy....so I'll probably pass on the body armor and long guns while out hiking. On a funny/interesting note: I saw a local shop with lots of bear sprays ranging from $45-$55/can and about 75% of them on the shelf were already expired!

--Anna Sophia

reuben_j_cogburn · Aug 4, 2010

RedHawk44 said:
Like most people I have not shot a bear in self defense.

However, if you think about it, you will realize that a Grizzly bear is a very large animal with heavy bones and muscle that has to be penetrated to get to the vitals.

Now the bullets should be heavy, even heavy for the caliber, to provide the sectional density needed for maximun penetration. To me, this suggests bullets of 275 to 300 grains and hard cast.

quote]

Breaking bones is as important as getting to the vitals...

contender · Aug 4, 2010

Anna,
As you have seen,, there is a lot of excellent info here. For the most part,, you have seen the advocy of heavier,, deeper penetrating ammo in the biggest caliber you can get will be the best way to hopefully stop a charging bear. And yes,, the likelyhood of being attacked by any bear is remote,, but a possibility. You already have a couple of guns,, suited to most of your needs,, but the ammo choices are limited. While the 240 grn JSP is better than the lighter bullets you mentioned,, a good hardcast heavier bullet is even better.
I apologize for some of the ruffled feathers comments that have caused folks to stray from the main topic. Including mine. I will say that the wording of Bearbio's initial posting was a bit wrong in how it encompassed everybody east of the Miss. However,, MANY well educated folks do live east,, and are well aware of what it takes to stop a black,, or a griz.
However,, you appear to be totally open to good discussion,, and seem quite prepared for your trip. As for the coach gun,, it's a very fair deal,, but maybe not the best for bear SD purposes. (I'd buy it just because it is a good deal.)
Have a great trip,,, and we expect pics & stories when you return!

maxpress · Aug 4, 2010

last thing i would want to do is "fuss" with exposed hammers if'n a bear popped up. just way to awkward for me just on the range.
first choice would be a semi auto 12 then a pump.
the advantage of the double barrel hammerless double trigger ($200) is if your sure of your shot you can grab both triggers at once and dump 2 slugs at the same time into the bruin.
we had a cross chest sling in the army that would work on the shotgun (speacially with a pistol grip) and you would almost for get it was there but would instantly swim to the hip or shoulder for a shot.

powder smoke · Aug 4, 2010

contender":2enuvdgi said:
Anna,
As you have seen,, there is a lot of excellent info here. For the most part,, you have seen the advocy of heavier,, deeper penetrating ammo in the biggest caliber you can get will be the best way to hopefully stop a charging bear. And yes,, the likelyhood of being attacked by any bear is remote,, but a possibility. You already have a couple of guns,, suited to most of your needs,, but the ammo choices are limited. While the 240 grn JSP is better than the lighter bullets you mentioned,, a good hardcast heavier bullet is even better.

More good advice but what is more important than big bore and proper ammo? Proficiency is key, weapon your comfortable with accurate with and confident with because reload may not be an option. As mentioned needing to defend your self form a bruin may be remote BUT if need be you gotta know how to do it. Practice Practice Practice. JMO Phil

dlh38or45 · Aug 4, 2010

With all due respect to those advocating the double barreled 12 guage, it seems to me that the advantage of the 3rd through 6th shots without reload would lead me to prefer a pump shotgun over a double. I also realize that there is little chance of needing or having time for a third shot is pretty limited, but if it is a sow with cubs...I would rather have the extra shots available.

I would save the $200 on the coach gun and pick up one of these

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1280955287.1381=/html/catalog/cleeloader.html

and the components to put together some more potent reloads.

DLH

annasophia · Aug 4, 2010

I think I've decided against the double barreled shotgun due to the exposed hammers. It is a pretty shotgun though! I'm going to just take the ammo I have (Winchester 240 JSP) and be chatty on the trail when we're in and around the park area so the bears know we're in the area. I was there three few years ago and was pretty creeped-out in several different areas we hiked in....probably just because we heard so much talk about there being more grizzly bears in and around Glacier NP than any other area in the country. Hopefully I will feel more comfortable knowing that I have something to reckon with on my belt should I actually need it. My friend that coming with me has a S&W .38 spl that she's going to carry loaded with +P ammo...so between the both of us we'll have 12 shots at hand before any reloading. I know we are probably just a couple of nervous, inexperienced girls but I think it's well worth doing what you can to feel like you can take care of yourself and not be so vulnerable. That way we can have more fun! Thanks for all the help and opinions, it's been great!

--Anna Sophia

Ale-8(1) · Aug 4, 2010

Good luck, girls.

:roll:

SR9 Shooter · Aug 4, 2010

I've never hunted a day in my life and I am going on a bear hunt for two weeks with my buddy that knows absolutely nothing about living off the land and survivor skills. It's going to be an adventure, that's for sure.

I'm trying to decide on if I'm going to pick up a Ruger Alaskan just in case he freezes up before the shot or we get a charging momma bear. I don't think my SR9 will do anything except piss her off. (Black bear in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.)

Knuckles · Aug 4, 2010

Seriously?... I'd carry both the 44mag, the 357mag and the pepper-spray... all at the same time. :shock:

Hard-cast / heavy-grain ammo too!

annasophia · Aug 4, 2010

That sounds nice, but have you ever really tried to do much hiking with two big hand guns and a big fat can of bear spray on your belt all at the same time? That's in addition to the usual day pack I carry. Just not practical. I read on the Glacier NP website that the park had something like just short of 10 million visitors last year and only 3 injured people due to bears....those are pretty low odds. I did see some grizzlies up there a few years ago, but it was just a couple miles over the boarder in Waterton NP, Canada. People can't let themselves get too scared with those kind of odds in their favor, otherwise nobody would ever go to the park and see/experience the natural beauty there. I'm guessing there's realistically a higher chance of getting into a terrible car accident on the way up there compared to getting attacked by a bear.....but a gun and pepper spray on the belt do give me some peace of mind to lessen the stress and hopefully allow me to enjoy things more.

--Anna Sophia

dlh38or45 · Aug 4, 2010

Annasophia,

You are right, in that the odds of a problem are pretty thin and I would take what you have and play the odds. What you have with you is better then nothing.

One suggestion, however. If a 38 Special is all your friend has, you might consider familiarizing her with one of your .357 DA revolvers and have her carry that.

I always try to be prepared, but in 43 years of wandering the hills and mountains of Idaho and surrounding areas, the only thing I have ever had a problem or been charged by is a bull elk in Yellowstone.

I am optimistic that you will be OK if you take precautions and act wisely.

DLH

Snyd · Aug 5, 2010

DO NOT let your friend shoot a bear with a 38 +p! A 38 +p is barely enough to penetrate denim and make it to a humans heart! Let alone a bear. MAYBE a 357 with 200gr hardcast. But, your best bet is your good ol' 44mag with 300-320gr Hardcast. Use your 240's for plinkin or shootin whitetails. Buffalo Bore Ammo is right there in MT. Buy some ammo that will do the job!

Here's what you need for bear in a 44mag.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... etail&p=49

The other thing for all to consider is that if a gun is to cumbersome to carry you probably won't carry it. It won't matter that it could stop a charging elephant if it's behind the seat of the truck!

VAdoublegunner · Aug 5, 2010

My choice for black bears is easy since I live on the east coast -- a 4 5/8" Super Blackhawk and some 300 gr 44 Mag hardcast handloads give me peace of mind in the woods. Think something along the lines of Garrett's big stuff. Now black bears aren't exactly that hard to put down compared to a Griz, or so I hear, but they can get testy if you're carrying a pocket full of Clifs Bars. However, most I've seen will decide to go elsewhere if confronted.

When travelling/camping/kayaking out west or Alaska in big bear country, a 5.5" Redhawk in 45 Colt with the biggest honkin' hardcast handload I can find, and a couple cans of pepper spray, work for an extra good feeling.

maxpress · Aug 5, 2010

annasophia":zs74vkwg said:
That sounds nice, but have you ever really tried to do much hiking with two big hand guns and a big fat can of bear spray on your belt all at the same time? --Anna Sophia

sure, not a problem. i hike with a .44 on my strong side and a .357 cross draw with snakeshot all the time. and of course my medkit and pepper. just have to have the straps on your LBE right and your fine.

Ale-8(1) · Aug 5, 2010

annasophia, you were apparently concerned enough about bears to come onto a gun website and ask advice.

You got a lot of good advice.

Now you decide that it might be too much trouble to follow any of that advice, and use what you were going to use all along.

Methinks you were looking for approval of your existing plan more than actually seeking learned advice.

As I said above, good luck. Hope we don't read about you and your friend having an unfortunate altercation with a bruin who was not impressed, or repelled, by your somewhat minimal preparations. As for the .38 Special, well, good luck indeed.

:?

Pal Val · Aug 5, 2010

Annasophia, I once visited the island of Nevis for a day. There, a bug bit me on my back. I thought little of it until a big red welt raised on the spot a few weeks later. It turns out that the bug was a botfly and had left its eggs under my skin and four huge parasitic maggots were feeding on me. The doctor had to remove them and it was messy. Now I carry a pretty ugly scar on the spot. Why do I write this? The doctor later told me my chances of getting infected with that parasite were one in several million.

Statistics make one feel safe right until the bear (or the bug) strikes.

Larry from Bend · Aug 5, 2010

These 2 Griz hung around our farm for several weeks this Spring. Fish & Game said to "Be Watchful" --- no problem there!

I go on horseback trips into the Bob Marshall Wilderness as often as I can. I carry a S&W 629 5" .44 mag. with 285 grain hardcast bullets @ about 1250 fps. It NEVER leaves my side. If I didn't reload, Federal sells a 300 grain hardcast that I would use.

We've had Griz in camp looking for horsemeat in the middle of the night and met Griz on the trail. Except for scaring me half to death they've never caused any permanent damage; yet. I HAVE had problems with Black Bear tearing up our Deer camp in NE Oregon. We were in camp at the time.

A 45-70 Marlin Guide Gun would be much better but I'm not going to tote one and the Smith is much better than nothing. I sure wouldn't shoot a Griz with buckshot with its limited penetration but slugs should work fine out of something like an 870 Rem.

I think Bear Spray (something like Counter-Assault) makes sense but I would only carry ONE deterrent. I don't want to be trying to decide whether to draw a .44 or a can of bear spray when Ma Griz is bearing down on me. For me its the .44. Wind DOES affect Bear Spray.

Tommy Kelly · Aug 5, 2010

Heck go and enjoy the outdoors. More than likely in the next 20 trips you will probably come home with the same 6 bullets in your you leave with. Once you get closer to yellowstone stop by a sporting goods store they probably will have some 300 gr loads in stock buy them and put them in your gun and forget them. For bear attack you won't be shooting long shots and they will be fine. Then after you return home go out and shoot a few of them then next time you will have the proper ammo for your trip. There is not a lot of difference in 240's and the 300 gr.

Bear Paw Jack · Aug 5, 2010

Acutally there is a LOT of difference between a 240 JSP and a 300 Grain HCWNFPGC. Regardless of that.
Annasophia, I think you will be just fine. You are already ahead of a lot of people that wouldn't even know that Bear Spray expires. I don't think most people even know that. It's also important to shake the can once in a while. I REALLY, REALLY, agree with who ever said you should let your friend carry your 357 with 180 or 200 gr HC bullets. And as I said in my PM both should carry Bear Spray. If one of you get in a bad situation the other can respond and you two are working as a team. You keep an eye on one another. Be alert, and have fun.

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