Super Bisley 45 Colt, would you like to have it?

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BULL'S-EYE

Blackhawk
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The 6 shot 45 Colt Ruger's will do all that needs doing here in North America...The Whitetail bucks I killed with my 5 shot Bisley in 454 didn't die any quicker OR any more dead than any I've ever shot with my 6 shot 45 Colt Blackhawk's.
 

Onty

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Messages
491
that is good info and just what I was talking about. a 44 mag bullet is .429 not 44. it is a good round but I always like the 45 better. Mike Venturino stated with the 45/70 the same as as you saying a 400 or 500 gr bullet at 1300-1400 goes thru a buffalo at any angle. be did not see the need to load the near 2000 fps
Sometimes it is the gun!

When I proposed to MP-Molds 45-503-SWC, I already (foolishly) sold Bisley 45 Colt (2 cylinders for 45 Colt, one fluted, plus one 45 ACP cylinder) I couldn't try that bullet. However, a gentleman who did, wrote:

Have shot about 150 rounds from this mould. Now getting 3" groups with 64 year old tri focal eyes. That will be at 25 yards and sand bags. Using a cranky 4-5/8" ruger black hawk that has been giving me fits till I blew some 250 grit down the barrel. Makes a good all around slug. Mine drops at 284 grains with my blend of 1 to 2 Mono type and pure lead. Load was 8.2 grains of unique with this 13 bhn slug. If you shoot 45's you need to get this mould, you will not be sorry. thanks for the great craftmenship on building a really nice mould.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...-brass-mould&p=1402058&viewfull=1#post1402058

Also, Marshall Stanton from Beartooth Bullets, wrote an excellent article about one 45 Colt Bisley he purchased. Out of the box, revolver was making (if I remembered correctly) something like 4" group on 25 yds, or even more. After opening cylinder chambers on .4525", and firelaping barrel, groups shrunk on 1.5" and even less. Unfortunately, his website is down, and I couldn't find the link for noted article.

My point is that many revolvers have a constricted barrel where it's threaded into frame, and that ruins accuracy. Since barrel wall on 45 cal NMBH isn't very thick, shrinkage is more pronounced than with smaller calibers on same frame.

Another remedy is so called "Taylor Throating", that, among other things, eliminates noted constriction:

Revolver Accuracy by Alpha Precision, Inc.

I am convinced Taylor Throating produces the greatest accuracy improvement value available. Line-bore chambering will produce the most accurate revolvers, but the cost is prohibitive for many. When the barrel is accurately recrowned; the forcing cone recut concentric to the bore; Taylor Throating is almost as accurate as line-bore chambering with a savings of several hundred dollars.


More here:



Ross Seyfried about firelapping and Taylor throating https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/ross-seyfried-lipseys-ruger-flattop-44-special-bisley-revolvers/
 
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Onty

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Messages
491
The 6 shot 45 Colt Ruger's will do all that needs doing here in North America...The Whitetail bucks I killed with my 5 shot Bisley in 454 didn't die any quicker OR any more dead than any I've ever shot with my 6 shot 45 Colt Blackhawk's.
That is my point. I don't need 454, when 45 Colt will do it, and at 2.5 times less pressure.

And I am not bashing those using 454 because they are shooting buck or boar on 200 yards. If they want to do that, that's fine with me. They have their preferences, I have mine.

As for barrel length, I tried them all from 4-5/8" to 8-3/8", the one I consider optimum for this "Super Bisley" 45 Colt would be 6.5". Looks like that Ruger came to same conclusion, and that is the reason why they make 454 and 480 also with 6.5" barrel.

(BTW, there is a fellow who posted that he has a 30 Carbine Blackhawk just in case when he is on the range, comes another shooter with one of those 15+ rounds semi-autos, and showers neighbors with empty cases. One cylinderfull from 30 Carbine Blackhaw is all that's needed to have rest of the day OK.)
 

G2

Hunter
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I like both,,,
But prefer 5.5" octagon,
One of each 454/45 & 480.
51742787819_b52463dd53_c.jpg
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2022
Messages
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Location
Oregon
I'd just prefer Ruger open up a custom shop where they will go that extra mile to properly clock the barrel, tighten the gun up more, do an action job, and for once offer thicker wooden grip panels to accommodate those with larger hands. It would be nice to order something like this rather than look for a gunsmith and wait in line. Many out there are a couple years wait and prices easily double or triple the investment. Having a factory option akin to how the Remington Custom Shop used to run for rifles would be my preference. The main reason I don't buy "more" Ruger revolvers is because there's always things I want to change or fix and good gunsmiths are few and far between.
This is my "Pet Peeve" with Ruger. Why, oh why, can't they make sure the barrel is properly clocked? More specifically, why can't they get the sight installed 100% vertical? Am I a great shot? No, but I am particular about things being right, and I can see even the slightest of tilt in the front sight. Comes from years of building custom cars, I guess. My 68 Super is perfect, my 76 .45 is perfect. And the newer Super that I had to send in to get a barrel replaced under warranty came back perfect. ( They fixed the timing too). But my newer .357 is off visibly, and my New Vaquero .45 is off a hair. The .45 shoots well, and the .357 does too with a minor adjustment to the windage out back. But it bugs me. Never mind that I spend almost $500 on each one to change out the grip frames to fit my big hands. I hate spending hard earned $$ on stuff that should be right to begin with, not to mention the inconvenience of shipping a firearm, especially nowadays in Oregon.

I saw that Taurus came out with an "Executive grade" in which pistols hand selected off the line received special fit/finish/smoothness treatment. I would humbly suggest that's what Ruger needs to institute. I'd gladly pay more for "out of the box" perfection.
 

RonEgg

Blackhawk
Joined
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906E40C2-8F05-4446-A308-8B3C105145B3.jpeg

Here is my Super 45. Bought off GunBroker with a Hogue grip, standard grip frame. Sent to Alan Harton for checkout and to replace a worn hand. Came back in about four days. Replaced grip frame and grips, has OM recessed cylinder and no bill board barrel. El Paso Saddlery shoulder holster with mostly snake shot, particularly in the Spring.
 

BULL'S-EYE

Blackhawk
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That is my point. I don't need 454, when 45 Colt will do it, and at 2.5 times less pressure.

And I am not bashing those using 454 because they are shooting buck or boar on 200 yards. If they want to do that, that's fine with me. They have their preferences, I have mine.

As for barrel length, I tried them all from 4-5/8" to 8-3/8", the one I consider optimum for this "Super Bisley" 45 Colt would be 6.5". Looks like that Ruger came to same conclusion, and that is the reason why they make 454 and 480 also with 6.5" barrel.

(BTW, there is a fellow who posted that he has a 30 Carbine Blackhawk just in case when he is on the range, comes another shooter with one of those 15+ rounds semi-autos, and showers neighbors with empty cases. One cylinderfull from 30 Carbine Blackhaw is all that's needed to have rest of the day OK.)
To clarify, I wasn't using 454 level loads, but my handloads loaded in 45 Colt brass that were definitely a little hoter than "Ruger only" 6 shot Blackhawk loads. My point was simply that the gun you desire has already been made by Ruger with the 5 shot Blackhawks, which also has 454 Casull capabilities... I personally, am not a huge fan of the Casull myself, it's probably the most unpleasant cartridge I've ever fired from a revolver.
 

Onty

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Messages
491
To clarify, I wasn't using 454 level loads, but my handloads loaded in 45 Colt brass that were definitely a little hoter than "Ruger only" 6 shot Blackhawk loads. My point was simply that the gun you desire has already been made by Ruger with the 5 shot Blackhawks, which also has 454 Casull capabilities... I personally, am not a huge fan of the Casull myself, it's probably the most unpleasant cartridge I've ever fired from a revolver.
I understand your point. However, mine is why to bother with 454 when even 45 Colt at max 30 000 psi is more than enough for anything in lower 48, and in whole Europe. OK, some could say "buy 454 revolver, and shoot 45 Colt". It could be done, and many are doing that, however, that is not my cup of tea:

Bob Baker's (Freedom Arms Owner) reply on Graybeard's forum

Re: using a 45LC in a 454
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2011, 09:10:34 AM »

Quote

The 45 Colt is .100 shorter than the 454 Casull. When shooting the 45C in 454 chambers, lead and powder residue is left in the chamber just ahead of the case. This build up of residue can restrict chambering the longer 454 cartridge and can cause excess pressure by not allowing the crimp of the 454 to easily open up to allow the bullet to exit the case.

Another potential problem is when the revolver is cooling down after firing it collects moisture. This moisture mixed with the lead and powder residue creates an acid which can etch the chamber underneath the lead and powder residue. With this condition, even if the residue is cleaned out of the chamber, the longer 454 case will now stick in the etched area of the chamber when fired and can be difficult to remove depending on the amount of etching. Over the years we have seen this problem more from guns in high humidity areas than from low humidity areas but it still occurs in the low humidity areas.

For some folks this seems to be an emotional issue and some folks even claim that all we are trying to do make extra money on extra cylinders. What we are actually trying to do is help our customers get the most trouble free life from their FA revolver as possible. I know of some customers that have shot thousands of 45C rounds in their 454 chambers with no problems but they thoroughly clean the gun when finished shooting. Other customers have ended up with one of the above problems fairly quick also. All we can do is put out the information, it is up to the individual what they do with the information.


Of course, 454 could be downloaded, but why to bother when we have 45 Colt.

Now, some will say large frame NMBH 6 bore 45 Colt is enough. For standard loads, even at "Ruger only" level, yes, but if I want something peppier, like 325 grain bullet at 30 000 PSI, in that case I would rather have 5 bore cylinder than 6 bore. In other words, I would rather have 1 ton pickup than 1/2 ton, but I have no desire to have 3-4 ton DRW.
 

thor's daddy

Bearcat
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Messages
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Location
Kansas
Of all loads above, I prefer RCBS 45-270-SAA SWC with HS-6. I don't have noted RCBS bullet mold, but I do have this one:

Kuw1Pfb.jpg


This is 45-503 SWC, a version of famous Keith's H&G #503. Cast using WW, this bullet weighs almost 290 grains...


Interesting thread.

Onty, who cuts a mold for the 45-503 SWC? I always thought that would be a wonderful slug.
 

Onty

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Messages
491
Interesting thread.

Onty, who cuts a mold for the 45-503 SWC? I always thought that would be a wonderful slug.
MP-Molds https://www.mp-molds.com/ did. You can contact them at https://www.mp-molds.com/contact-us/ , and ask if they are willing to make one for you. They make molds using profile milling cutter, and milling machine just mills nests.

If they cannot do that (they are very busy these days) ask one of custom mold manufacturers to make one mold for you. All is needed to start with H&G #503 and bump all diameters in a mold for .022". Doing that, nominal .432" main dia for cal. 44 will be enlarged to .454" dia. Good luck!
 

Hankus

Single-Sixer
Joined
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Florida Gulf Coast
From what I found, old BFR will accept Bisley grip frame, new ones no. As a matter of fact, a number of years ago I even contacted manufacturer and asked about Bisley version of BFR, and before I even finished guy said NO!

Also, when I phoned fellow who was making blank cylinders (just with pilot holes) for Ruger SA revolvers, and asked about stainless one, the answer was NO STAINLESS, PERIOD.
Who was this fellow making blank cylinders and is he still around?
 

Onty

Single-Sixer
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Messages
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contender

Ruger Guru
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"This is my "Pet Peeve" with Ruger. Why, oh why, can't they make sure the barrel is properly clocked? More specifically, why can't they get the sight installed 100% vertical?"

Randyzzz,,, you have to remember,, Ruger is trying to prevent the huge time backlog that USED to be the "normal operation method" for decades. That was when Bill ran things, and he hired real gunsmith types of people. Oh, and it'd often be 2-3 YEARS after the introduction of a new model before many of us ever saw one.
But once Bill Sr. & Bill Jr were no longer involved in the business,,, management went into a plan that is different.
First off,, the company suffered to the point that Ruger stock prices were well below $10 per share. Slow production was normal. Quality was very good though.
That got an overhaul. Lean manufacturing was introduced. To be able to speed up production, they revamped HOW guns were made. With an eye towards production. And with increased production, along with the FACT that there are NOT enough well trained GUNSMITH types around,, some portions of gun making suffer a little.
Nowadays, we have "gun parts assemblers" that are required to keep the production line going. And as long as the parts go together, fit, and torque properly, the gun goes on through the production line. Sadly,, a SMALL percentage of guns will pass the fit & torque portion, yet not quite be "properly clocked" or have the front sight perfectly vertical.
And yes, in production, they accept the fact that a small percentage will get returned for "correction."
The solution.
If a gun isn't properly clocked & the sight is off a little, a POLITE call to them will get it fixed. BUT,, at the same time,, you have to accept the FACT that they have "manufacturing tolerances" that the gun may be within specs,, but "off" to you.
If you want perfection,, then buy a Freedom Arms. THEY hire gunsmith types of people. THEY have a backlog of 1-1/2 years currently. They build each & every one carefully & try for perfection. And yes,, they charge accordingly. It's not uncommon to see a FA for $2500-$3000. You DO pay for that perfection. It takes TIME, SKILL, and Knowledge.

If Ruger tried to do this,, the costs of a gun would increase a LOT. Stockholders would not be happy.
Sturm, Ruger & Co is NOT the same company it was when Bill was alive. It's both better & worse.
 
Joined
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Messages
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… just wish they'd visit S&W to see how they get their barrel / front sights right. I've never had issues with any of my S&W,… just my Blackhawks, Super Blackhawks, Vaqueros, and RedHawks. I buy the Ruger not because they are cheaper than a S&W, but because they are stronger and have different look and feel.
 

freakindawgen

Single-Sixer
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Aug 30, 2009
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Perryville,MO
Don't need another big bore as I have several New Vaquaro's, and a 4" Redhawk for the heavy stuff. My first Ruger was a Super Blackhawk and would like to duplicate it in 45 Colt. I have seen the 45 Colt Bisley 7.5 would be the donor, put all the Bisley stuff on my 5.5 New Vaquaro still has the fake color case harding. Get the grip trigger and hammer, tah dah! Only minor issue would be the Bisely markings on the cyl and frame.
 
Joined
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If a gun isn't properly clocked & the sight is off a little, a POLITE call to them will get it fixed.

All valid points. However, I do believe getting the front sight aligned should be part of the basic QC regimen. With the technology available today it should not be that difficult. I'm fairly sure that the Vaquero sight is within their specs- but my expectations are a different story. Maybe it's time I buy some more tooling so I can fix it myself.

FA pistols are indeed works of art, but I've always had, and always will have a heart for Ruger.

My hesitance at returning it to Ruger stems from the current situation caused by Measure 114 here in Oregon. I won't go into it here but it's a nightmare. If I could get a carrier to accept the pistol from me and ship it to Ruger, I know they would ship it back to me directly. If I have to go through my FFL, Measure 114 is causing issues…
 
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Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
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Attaching the front sight after the barrel has been installed would be ideal,.. and using a jig or device to make sure it's on top of the barrel and follow-up QC check. I think on a $1000 handgun, ensuring the front sight is done correctly is should be an expectation. This would make me buy more Ruger revolvers rather than requesting they offer a five-shot 45 Colt.
 

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