Another new useless cartridge ?

I was just reading an article in Shooting Times about (what I believe is) a relatively new cartridge that appears to me to be as useless as the new .30 Super Carry... they call it the 7mm PRC. The author stated that, when he first heard about it, he said "just what we need, another 7mm..". Then he went on his super sales pitch to convince those who are vulnerable to buy yet another super iteration of the one and only 7mm Rem Mag.
OR, if you are old and jaded like me, you held the line for the past 70 years and stuck with the .30-06. I just had to vent, but thought I'd also kick-up some commentary... (?) Do you need the newest, fastest, super whiz-bang shooten-thingie? Is it, again, all about "who's the biggest Gorilla in our jungle">>???

J.

Johnnu2 said:

I was just reading an article in Shooting Times about (what I believe is) a relatively new cartridge that appears to me to be as useless as the new .30 Super Carry... they call it the 7mm PRC. The author stated that, when he first heard about it, he said "just what we need, another 7mm..". Then he went on his super sales pitch to convince those who are vulnerable to buy yet another super iteration of the one and only 7mm Rem Mag.
OR, if you are old and jaded like me, you held the line for the past 70 years and stuck with the .30-06. I just had to vent, but thought I'd also kick-up some commentary... (?) Do you need the newest, fastest, super whiz-bang shooten-thingie? Is it, again, all about "who's the biggest Gorilla in our jungle">>???

J.

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Well Said..

To play devil's advocate, there are more and more shooters enjoying shooting extremely long range, and there are a number of ELD (heavy-for-caliber, high BC) bullets available. There's likely some case design improvements in the cartridges designed that carry over to better precision for those 1000-yard shots. For those shooting 300yds or less or only use for putting food on the table, then there's not much use for anything other than the old cartridges. For the record, I do all my shooting under 200yds, and only have a scope on one of my rifles. (I'm more of an iron sight guy.). There was a time, though, that I tooled up to shoot formal Benchrest, and I appreciated the case design of the 6PPC, so I understand the concept of designing a great case. But it also helps if there's good quality control when manufacturing it, too. Just my $0.02 worth.

Edited for typos

Johnnu2 said:

Is it, again, all about "who's the biggest Gorilla in our jungle">>???

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I believe so.

Johnnu2 said:

I was just reading an article in Shooting Times about (what I believe is) a relatively new cartridge that appears to me to be as useless as the new .30 Super Carry... they call it the 7mm PRC. The author stated that, when he first heard about it, he said "just what we need, another 7mm..". Then he went on his super sales pitch to convince those who are vulnerable to buy yet another super iteration of the one and only 7mm Rem Mag.
OR, if you are old and jaded like me, you held the line for the past 70 years and stuck with the .30-06. I just had to vent, but thought I'd also kick-up some commentary... (?) Do you need the newest, fastest, super whiz-bang shooten-thingie? Is it, again, all about "who's the biggest Gorilla in our jungle">>???

J.

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Lots of folks surprised when they read about Charles Newton's cartridges over 100 years ago...stuff that beat the modern magnums and some of the first wildcats based on the 30-06 ; 7mm (280 Rem) and .256 (25-06). Really not much new under the sun.

I get the popularity of the long-range trend, but honestly the twist rates of the barrels have more to do with stabilizing the long, heavy bullets needed for that game than cartridge design. My old 300 Win Mag will do almost anything the 300 PRC does with up to 210 grain bullets, without the need for a longer action and hard-to-get components. A rebarrel with faster twist and single loading would let me duplicate the new whiz-bang number.

Some of these new LR cartridges do make it easier to hit targets in the next time zone, so I can't say they are "useless". And for someone who doesn't already have a 7mm Mag or 300 Mag, why not? But for those of us who know what our antique rounds do and do not feel the need to have the "latest/greatest" or be trendy, there is not much to excite. A foot less drop at 1,000 yards, and less wind drift is nice, but if the groups are the same, is it really worth thousands of dollars more in rifle and optics to do what a few more clicks on the elevation knob of our existing rig can accomplish?

Johnnu2 said:

all about "who's the biggest Gorilla in our jungle">>???

J.

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Yes it is all about the biggest Gorilla. And it's been that way since the Chinese invented the fire-lance, and Mssr. Minie' invented the minie ball. The constant evolution of firearms (and weapons generally) and ammo, is not likely to stop - ever.

There's an article in the new (Jan 23) issue Guns & Ammo where Tom Beckstrand makes a VERY strong case, using logic and math, that the 7mmPRC is the best 7mm Magnum of all. Basically, it was designed from the ground up to be "perfect."

I'm not in the market for one, and if I already had a 7mm of any kind, I wouldn't trade it in, but I have to admit that Beckstrand REALLY made a strong case for the thing.

Just like the Super Short Magnums were going to replace all the old obsolete 270's and 30/06's etc. about 20 years ago.

I no longer have a 7mm, but if I were to buy another, I can see how the current offerings would open it up acquire a newer design that might give a powder column that burns more consistently in a rifle with twist optimized for the bullets typically used in said cartridge. I think the fact that research and development continues is a good sign that it's not getting stagnant but remains relevant for new-comers and also gives older shooters something new if they choose. Overall it's a good thing. Otherwise, there's no new magazine articles, nothing new and exciting to market and sell, and the shooting sports eventually dry up and the firearms industry has to find other ways to grow. I'd be content with rifles chambered in 22LR, 30-30, and 45-70 and argue that all the rest are unnecessary, but glad to see it growing.

Good thoughts everyone.

THANKS

J.

Always figured wildcatting in guns was good and bad, like life: One for all but exceptions noted,...

As a firearms dealer, I inquire from my distributors the availability of "hunting calibers. Over the last two years I have observed that the only rifle calibers being manufactured are .223 Remington/5.56x45mm, 308 Winchester, and 6.5 Creedmoor. I have seen an occasional listing of 30.06. In the calibers 5.56x45mm, 308 Winchester, 30.06 most of the ammunition is not suitable for the hunter because it is FMJ. Now to consume more resources, up pops 7mm PRC. I have one customer who has a 6.5 PRC, he's a non-reloader and his only source of ammo is a "custom reloader". Jason Vanderbrink of Vista Outdoors (2/3rds of the industry) has pretty much got a death grip on the industry.

Then again, some end up made in private hands; i.e. the 30-06.....!

Sam Summey said:

As a firearms dealer, I inquire from my distributors the availability of "hunting calibers. Over the last two years I have observed that the only rifle calibers being manufactured are .223 Remington/5.56x45mm, 308 Winchester, and 6.5 Creedmoor. I have seen an occasional listing of 30.06. In the calibers 5.56x45mm, 308 Winchester, 30.06 most of the ammunition is not suitable for the hunter because it is FMJ. Now to consume more resources, up pops 7mm PRC. I have one customer who has a 6.5 PRC, he's a non-reloader and his only source of ammo is a "custom reloader". Jason Vanderbrink of Vista Outdoors (2/3rds of the industry) has pretty much got a death grip on the industry.

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Sam, you might recommend Underwood for some of your buddies/customers.

It's actually a pretty viable round especially for Concealed Carry pistols. It's smaller diameter allows for more rounds or a smaller mag. Ballistically it's faster than 9mm allowing it's bullets to expand to the same or diameter as 9mm. Almost like a mini 10mm. Will it catch on??? Imagine an LCP with 10rnds in the mag that punches like a 9mm. Once someone makes the right gun for it it will probably take off like all the others. I like 357sig myself. I can push Lehigh XP's over 2,000fps.

Currently S&W is the only one making a gun for this. If Ruger modified the LCP to chamber this with 10rnds of 9mm comparable ammo in a solid pocket pistol they could sell all they could make. As more firearms are chambered for it availability will increase.

The 30SC is a fine cartridge and takes up less volume than 9mm is same size pistols. For examples: Shield Plus 9mm 10+, 13+1; 30SC 13+, 16+1. Both pistols have otherwise identical dimensions https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp-shield-plus?sku=13474&preselect=true. Ballistically close.

bobbill said:

Always figured wildcatting in guns was good and bad, like life: One for all but exceptions noted,...

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The beauty of Wildcatting is that you can tailor a load to your own specifications and work it from the ground up. If it catches on all the better. Most gun owners will never experience the satisfaction of building their own firearms or working up their own caliber. It's pretty sad really.

The 7mm PRC is an optimized long range round which in certain hands using 5 figure rifles can do an inch or so better than a Savage Axis in 270 at over 1,000yds.

The new designer / boutique calibers have never impressed me much. My interest in the hobby has been on the guns and different variations. Now, I think they're a GOOD thing since they pad the pockets of gun and ammo makers and surely spike interest in all things firearms related.

The more people attracted to the hobby, the better.