Bisley .480; what is maximum OAL of loaded round

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Onty

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Bisley .480, what is maximum OAL of loaded round, assuming there is some space between bullet tip and end of cylinder? And how much space you usually leave when loading heavy bullets with long nose?

Also, when sizing bullet, what is diameter?

My apology if somebody already put that information. I tried to search forum, but found nothing.

Thanks
 
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contender

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Without going into my safe to measure my cylinder,, most handloading manuals give a max OAL. My Hornady manual gives a max OAL at 1.650.
That said, yes,, many times a person can seat a bullet out further than the listed OAL.
When working up a load,, if a bullet has a crimp ring,, I most often use that as my guide to that rounds OAL.
BUT,, many bullets do not have a specific crimp ring, and as such, you can "experiment." And, you can get into different types of bullets,, such as cast, jacketed or solids.
I've recently been experimenting with a specific cast bullet design, that was designed to not have a crimp ring,, to where you actually deep seat & crimp over the top driving band. (I know, not the direction you are seeking.)
You want to make sure you have enough space for a cylinder to operate, yet at the same time, be aware of potential bullet jump when seating further out.
 

Enigma

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Bisley .480, what is maximum OAL of loaded round, assuming there is some space between bullet tip and end of cylinder? And how much space you usually leave when loading heavy bullets with long nose?

Also, when sizing bullet, what is diameter?

My apology if somebody already put that information. I tried to search forum, but found nothing.

Thanks
Contender covered the OAL question quite well. As for what diameter to size the bullet to, there are two schools of thought. One is to slug the bore, and size to groove diameter. The problem is that if your chamber exit holes (throats) are significantly larger or smaller than that diameter, it will cause issues. If way larger, the bullet can become slightly tilted before it meets the forcing cone, and accuracy problems will follow. If the throats are smaller than groove diameter, they will resize your bullets before they enter the barrel. Leading and poor accuracy are the typical results. I try to size my bullets to just under the chamber throat diameter. With the .480, this may be a moot point, because Lyman, RCBS, and Redding don't offer a wide selection of sizing die diameters in this caliber like they do in some others - last I looked, anyway.
 

Onty

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What confused me is that, according to specifications, OAL for 454 is 1.770", and for 480 is 1.650". From what I remember, Ruger makes on NMBH 41 cylinder longer than 357 and 44 longer than 41. The only exemption is 30 Carbine cylinder. That one, from 3 screw BH has the same length as 44 Magnum cylinder on Flattop.

I would expect that 480 cylinder is tad longer than 454, to prevent installing 480 cylinder on 454 revolver. If so, maximum OAL for 480 could be at least 1.770", if not a bit longer. Please correct me if I am wrong.
 

NikA

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The .480 I have access to is a SRH, and the cylinder seems like it would support a COAL of ~1.850". I think you are correct in thinking that the stated OAL from manuals, etc. is not based on actual firearm dimensions.

Personally, when I load for any magnum revolver cartridge, I decide where to crimp based on the bullet design. That criterion will almost certainly be adequate for .480 in the long Ruger cylinders with any reasonable bullet weight.

I made my own push-through sizer to size bullets for .480, I think I settled on .477" after measuring throats. No guarantee that would work for your gun.
 

Onty

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Thanks for info. Unfortunately, Bisley 480 (or possibly 454) is still a pipe dream, at this moment. Will have to contact local dealer to see if he can import one for me. It will be a long and expensive process. I will be lucky if all takes less 7-8 months and no more than $2000
 

contender

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"From what I remember, Ruger makes on NMBH 41 cylinder longer than 357 and 44 longer than 41. The only exemption is 30 Carbine cylinder. That one, from 3 screw BH has the same length as 44 Magnum cylinder on Flattop.'

I think you are mistaken here. I'd have to go & measure some cylinders to be sure. I DO know that the frame sizes for the .357, .41 & .44 are the same. As for cylinder lengths, they may be the same as well. Often, a custom gunsmith can & will take a different caliber cylinder & re-bore it to a larger caliber for a customer.

I'll see if I can measure my 480 cylinder later. And,I'll check a few other guns as well.
 

contender

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Ok, I did a bit of measuring.
My Ruger SA in .480 the chamber portion measured 1.770 in length, add the ratchet & boss the OAL is 1.975.
I measured a few other calibers,, and in general, the OAL was pretty much 1.970 to 1.980.
The chamber portions of the same guns were close,, to the 1.770 in general,, but varied a little bit. I'd say it was due to the amount of barrel that protruded into the frame window, and the corresponding boss to make sure the barrel/cylinder gap was within specs. And to allow for the correct "timing" alignment of the barrel with the sights at TDC.
And if the OAL of both the 454 & the 480 are the same or close,, yes,, they'd "fit" the gun.
So, the moral of the story? Make sure you only have the same gun, frame & cylinder on the bench at the same time. NOT two different calibers.

And no,, there is not a lot of difference in the chamber lengths between the .30 carbine, .357, 41, .44 or the .45 Colt.
 

Onty

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@contender

Yeah, I realized later that you are talking about Super Redhawk, not Super Blackhawk.

I just measured frame opening on stainless and blue Bisley-s, both 44 Magnum. Stainless one has 1.910", blue one 1.900". If barrel protrusion in front of cylinder is left .050-.060", that will leave 1.850" for chamber portion of cylinder, same as on your Super Redhawk. BTW, I also checked cylinder on 44 Magnum Redhawk. Chamber portion length over inserted case iz 1.807".

Considering all dimensions above, I do not see any reason why chamber portions of cylinder on NM BH and NM SBH wouldn't be same as on Redhawk and Super Redhawk. In that case, all those long nose bullets .500", with cartridge OAL 1.785 could be used in Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk in 44 Magnum and 45 Colt. Wouldn't that be wonderful!? Also, I have no problem if Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk in 44 Magnum and 45 Colt have 5 bore cylinders like 454 and 480.

Any chance that somebody from Ruger and/or Lipsey's is reading this and other suggestions? I wish they do...
 
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NikA

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@Onty, contender's measurements are on a Ruger Single Action (presumably Lipsey's SBH). The measurements I provided are on a SRH. I believe from previous measurements that the cylinder and frame window measurements between the two are nearly identical.

Since the cylinder chambers are generally not recessed around the case rim, you either need to add the case rim (generally, .060" nominal) to the chamber length to get the max COAL, or subtract the rim from the frame window length to get the cylinder length.
 
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Onty

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@Onty, contender's measurements are on a Ruger Single Action (presumably Lipsey's SBH). The measurements I provided are on a SRH. I believe from previous measurements that the cylinder and frame windo measurements between the two are nearly identical.

Since the cylinder chambers are generally not recessed around the case rim, you either need to add the case rim (generally, .060" nominal) to the chamber length to get the max COAL, or subtract the rim from the frame window length to get the cylinder length.
Redhawk, Super Redhawk, NM BH and NM SBH up to (including) 45 Colt have non-recessed cylinders, just flush machined for the thickness of brass rim.

As far as I know, NM SBH in 454 and 480 do have recessed cylinders, to prevent breakage of loading gate when fired without empty case or round in front of loading gate.

As for cylinders on Super Redhawk in 454 and 480, I cannot comment, I never handled them, but I don't think that recessed cylinder is required.
 

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