6.5 creedmoor: American/vortex or American hunter magpul

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BadMatrix

Bearcat
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Tough decisions. both 22" barrel, hunter ($1003)has the heavy barrel, no sights, magpul pmags. Need to add another 3-400$ to properly outfit…
the american/vortex ($899) just needs ammo, perhaps a new anarchy handle and knob.

almost the same rifle…but more than different stock.??

any ideas?
 
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peyton

Single-Sixer
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May 29, 2009
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223
It also depends on whether they use stack or rotary magazine. another thing to consider is how much carrying are you going to do. I have the ruger american that uses the box magazine, but no scope. I compared the two before I made my purchase. The magpul set up is neat but has to weigh more.
 
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I recommend VORTEX optics for any need. Actually, the Crossfire II is better than many scopes costing twice as much. Some scopes cause me problems with focus if I'm wearing/not searing my reading glasses but not VORTEX.
Matter of fact, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo has started showing up in good quantities on internet ammo sites. You can find 6.5 Cr in almost any bullet type/weight at sort of reasonable prices--something that can't be said for something like 7mm08. The 6.5Cr is on the "Gotta have it" list for lots of shooters.
FWIW, unless you plan to devote this rifle to range only shooting, I'd skip the HB version. I don't have a Ruger 6.5Cr--mine is a TC Compass II with the 22" sporter barrel contour. It's proven to be as accurate as the shooter can hold but does give up a bit of velocity with the 22". If the ammo is advertised as making 2820 FPS, the 22" cuts that to 2750 or less.
 

shoot to thrill

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the 6.5 needmore is a great round
 

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Joined
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One comment on the 'claims' of long range hunting use of the 6.5 Cr: Users need to understand and consider the limitations of what's basically a long range target round when it comes to hunting.
Hitting a steel plate or a paper target at OMG range may be accomplished fairly easily BUT consider the energy of the bullet at ranges beyond 400 yards. The energy delivered or the velocity at the point of contact may not be suitable for ethical use on big game.
I'm fairly certain the 6.5 Cr will humanely and ethically kill an elk @ 400 yards and deer a bit further but I certainly would be considerate of terrain and other factors before going any further. How far and into what sort of area might the target animal run? Is there going to be a suitable blood trail? Will there be an opportunity for a quick follow up shot?
 

BadMatrix

Bearcat
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One comment on the 'claims' of long range hunting use of the 6.5 Cr: Users need to understand and consider the limitations of what's basically a long range target round when it comes to hunting.
Hitting a steel plate or a paper target at OMG range may be accomplished fairly easily BUT consider the energy of the bullet at ranges beyond 400 yards. The energy delivered or the velocity at the point of contact may not be suitable for ethical use on big game.
I'm fairly certain the 6.5 Cr will humanely and ethically kill an elk @ 400 yards and deer a bit further but I certainly would be considerate of terrain and other factors before going any further. How far and into what sort of area might the target animal run? Is there going to be a suitable blood trail? Will there be an opportunity for a quick follow up shot?
Not for hunting…
 

BadMatrix

Bearcat
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So true! I bought the American without scope and flush mag. I added a 6x18 Crossfire with AO. For me it is perfect for adjusting parallax for range or hunting. The rifle with this setup with proper ammo will shoot MOA all day.
I will be hunting paper at the ranges out 300yrds. What will i miss without the heavy barrel model, the magpul pmags is another plus though.
 

jdavis

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Florida
I will be hunting paper at the ranges out 300yrds. What will i miss without the heavy barrel model, the magpul pmags is another plus though.
As a rule, a heavier barrel reduces vibration which will aid accuracy The heavier barrel will not heat as quickly as the thinner barrel will. However, if you allow additional time for the barrel to cool between shots, this is not a great problem. Longer distances will require good ammo suited to your gun. A scope with good magnification and an adjustable objective lens will benefit you greatly. For paper punching, I see little advantage with the box magazine, but if you want it, there isn't anything wrong with it.
 
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If you aren't carrying the rifle and only interest is comfortable shooting at the range, go for the HB.
Paper targets at ranges under 300 yards? Really a waste of barrel and ammo considering the capabilities of the 6.5 Cr.
 

vlavalle

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If anyone is interested, I have a ballistics/ammo file that shows the ballistics of the particular ammo, and where to bouy it online. It lists 35 handgun calibers, and 25 rifle ones, including the 6.5 Creedmoor ammo. I have 98 entries for the 6.5 Cr. listedand most of these are available, which is extremely a rarilty today! Just write back to me and I will send you the file. It gives all the ballistics info, such as Muzzle Velcoity (MV), Muzzle Energy (ME), and the bullet's weight and type. Of course the cost is listed also, in both the cost of the box and per round. The file have over 3,500 entries. This is a big file, both in length, and more importantly, in width, so it is not really usable on a smart phone, and maybe not sop much on a tablet either.

I release this as a PDF file (so anyone can read and use it on any platform), but I create it in Excel, which does all the calculations for the averages (cost per round, average power, average speed, per caliber. The 6.5 Cr varies in its power from about 2,400 ft. lbs of ME., to 2450, and its MV from about 1,050 fps to over 3,200 fps.
 

NikA

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The 6.5 Cr varies in its power from about 2,400 ft. lbs of ME., to 2450, and its MV from about 1,050 fps to over 3,200 fps.
Two thoughts come to mind here:
1)Who in their right mind is manufacturing subsonic 6.5C ammo and to what end?
2) I think there must be a mistake in your ME calculations, because there is no possible way with that spread in MV that the range of MEs is only 50 ft. lbs. That would require a bullet weight difference of 9+x, which puts the subsonic bullet weight in the same range as typical .50 BMG.
 
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[1)Who in their right mind is manufacturing subsonic 6.5C ammo and to what end?]

IF (and that's the big IF) such sub-sonic ammo was accurate enough, it would be a good addition to the deer hunter's play list. A couple years ago I shot 4 coyotes with a suppressed 6.5 and standard factory loaded ammo before killing a good sized buck later in the day-all from the same deer blind. All the coyotes were within 100 yards, well within sub-sonic ammo range which I would have used if it had been available. In this case, normal ammo through the muffler was good enough but in tighter cover and smaller areas quieter sub-sonic ammo would be even better.
 

NikA

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[1)Who in their right mind is manufacturing subsonic 6.5C ammo and to what end?]

IF (and that's the big IF) such sub-sonic ammo was accurate enough, it would be a good addition to the deer hunter's play list.
I think you and I are on the same page re:the utility of subsonic ammo. I'm wondering why one would use an approximately .308 sized case to accomplish that objective. Seems like a complete waste of powder. Consider that .300 BO and .308 subsonic rounds are for practical purposes ballistically identical, but the .308 will need significantly more powder to achieve the same limited velocity.

I guess someone might have constraints that lead to this solution, I'm just surprised there are enough buyers to make it commercially viable as a product.
 

NikA

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I think there must be a mistake in your ME calculations, because there is no possible way with that spread in MV that the range of MEs is only 50 ft. lbs.
Answered my own question out of curiosity. Manufacturer of 6.5C subsonic ammo (only appears to be one small boutique outfit) shows a ME of ~330 ft. lbs.
 

vlavalle

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Two thoughts come to mind here:
1)Who in their right mind is manufacturing subsonic 6.5C ammo and to what end?
2) I think there must be a mistake in your ME calculations, because there is no possible way with that spread in MV that the range of MEs is only 50 ft. lbs. That would require a bullet weight difference of 9+x, which puts the subsonic bullet weight in the same range as typical .50 BMG.
You are quite right. Sorry about that, but I miss typed the value somehow. The range for the 6.5 Cr ME is from about 2,100 Ft. lbs of ME to about 2,500. The fps varies from a little less than 2,400 fps, to just over 3,300 fps. Of course, the bullet wright varies within these as well. And there is one subsonic 6.5 Cr entry, and I agree - who would want that!!! Here is its link: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022293650?pid=742053. If you want to see the whole ballistics/ordering online file, just let me know. I am about to release a new version (a PDF file), which I do about every 2-4 months.

Also, keep in mind that these are not particularly heavy duty speeds or power. Handguns can come close to these speeds and power as well. For instance, the 45 LC can go up to 1,344 ft. lbs of ME, the .44 Mag can go up to 1,533, the .454 Casull can go up to 2,238 ft. lbs, with a speed of 1,833. This is not quite the speed nor full power of the 6.5 Cr, but these are just handguns! And there are three more powerful handguns beyond this. For example, the 460 S&W can go up to 2,800 ft. lbs, with speeds over 2,000 fps!

Of course, there are more powerful rifles as well, like the old 30-06, which can attain ME's over 3,200 ft. lbs!

Get my file!
 
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"I'm wondering why one would use an approximately .308 sized case to accomplish that objective. Seems like a complete waste of powder."
Because the majority of my normal hunting shots would be far longer than sub-sonic (or even full power) 300BO can handle. We've been using sub-sonic 300AAC for several years in an AR 'pistol' during both youth and alternative methods deer seasons so I'm well aware of it's capabilities and restrictions--it's a 100 yard deer round at best. Sitting in a deer blind with a 350-400 yard shooting area with a 100 yard gun doesn't make the grade for me. Swapping a sub-sonic round into the chamber to punch a 50 yard coyote does.
 
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