I don't have the gun in hand to check, but I'm quite sure it is factory, with an XR3-RED gripframe. Bobby Tyler told me it was set up that way, and we talked for a while about how I prefer an XR3 in general. I will check it when it arrives, but given it is coming from Bobby, it's hard to question what he says.
Current production Flattop convertible 45's
- Thread starter SLG
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T.A. WORKMAN
Hunter
Snake Pleskin
Banned
Lots of enemy combatants have fallen to the "pea shooter". Period. No one wants to carry an m14 due to its size & weight, and minimal ammo you can carry. IMHO
outlaw_dogboy
Single-Sixer
Nice pistola!!!!
outlaw_dogboy
Single-Sixer
Oh, also.... I wouldn't hesitate to believe the effectiveness of a 40mm on any animal that walks the planet, past, present, or future. 
Hondo44
Hawkeye
Are you just buying the gun new from Bobby or did he modify the gun for you?
eveled
Hawkeye
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2012
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- 5,610
The midsize can handle up to .45acp+p. It cannot handle the .45 colt Ruger or Contender only loads.
Paul B
Hunter
"And I would like to thank the_leper_colony for the link. It was very interesting, especailly with all the black bear attacks, which I thought were suppose to be quite docile and run from humans all the time."
The Black Bear is noted that it will stalk, kill and eat humans for more frequently than the Grizzly or Kodiak Brown bears. I don't know if that's because they are closer to areas occupied by humans of if some other cause. The Grizzly and Brown bears are usually in more remote locations which may have some affect on the matter.
Paul B.
The Black Bear is noted that it will stalk, kill and eat humans for more frequently than the Grizzly or Kodiak Brown bears. I don't know if that's because they are closer to areas occupied by humans of if some other cause. The Grizzly and Brown bears are usually in more remote locations which may have some affect on the matter.
Paul B.
Dave Schwaab
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2014
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- 128
My bad!
I do not reload anymore, haven't in many years. I knew the ACP had a 50% advantage over the Colt, 21,000psi v. 14,000psi. The ACP +P jumps only to 23.000psi. I was VERY SURPRISED to learn the "Ruger/Contender" Colt loads jump all the way up to 25,000psi!
(Gotta remember to think before I speak.)
vlavalle
Single-Sixer
SLG, no to your first question, but I am a historian and WW II and the military is my specialty. I would have to gather from your second comment, about it being this comparison being irrelevant means you have never been in the armed services. It certainly is not irrelevant with them, where their lives depend on it. We have put our military men (and women where it applies) at a great disadvantage with today's 'pea shooters'. A 9mm sidearm would have done very little in the War in the Pacific, where the Japanese were the most ferocious and determined combatants of the War.
vlavalle
Single-Sixer
Dave, I am not familiar with the PSI ratings, but rather with the resultant ft. lbs. of power that the consumer sees. Of course, the gun itself is rated in PSI's that it can handle since this is a native form of the pressure it can withstand before 'blowing up'. But the ammo and its power is rated in ft. lbs., and there is NO .45 ACP load that comes anywhere close to the capability of the full .45 LC loads. The most powerful .45 Super (a +p+P .45 ACP with thicker cases) is around 700 ft. lbs. But the highest .45 OLC load is almost double that at, 1,344 ft. lbs. (by Buffalo Bore).
For those who do not know what the measure of 'ft. lbs.' is, it is how much force (power) that is required to move a certain weight a certain distance. So, the 1,344 ft. lbs. of the highest end .45LC round means that it could move 1,344 lbs one foot, or 1lb. 1,344 feet, and anything in between, such as moving 1344/2 lbs. two feet, or 1344/4 lbs. four feet, and so on.
It is irrelevant because this thread has nothing to do with perceived cartridge issues and you are the only one who brought it up. and keeps bringing it up. As for my position on it, a tiny bit of research on your end would fix your assumptions. You may be a military historian (I guess that means you have to wait a while before learning what the military is doing), but the current military's actual high-end users are no longer pining over the 45, and have been very happy using 9mm for some time now.
outlaw_dogboy
Single-Sixer
Sorry, I just can't help myself. I know it's thread drift.... but...
One of my best friends did several years of work with SF in Afghanistan as late as 2013 (he was CA). He and the SF guys he worked with used the much maligned M9 with great effect the whole time he was over there. He's not interested in .45ACP at all. Maybe the jihadis he dealt with were not as "ferocious and determined" as the Japanese... but I kinda doubt it. I will agree that we put our soldiers to disadvantage today compared to WWII. But it isn't with the weaponry we provide them.
Of course, lol. Cartridge and caliber (within reason) have very little to do with effectively stopping or killing. This is what you learn in the field. I spent 3 tours in Afghanistan, also working with SOF from various branches. No one ever complained about the 9mm, though the relatively few guys who did not have hollowpoints did really want the hollowpoints I was using. Here in the states, it is the same. I can use 9, 40, or 45, up to me. All are just fine, and so almost everyone I work with or teach is using the 9mm for all the other advantages it brings. I like them all and mostly don't care. How you shoot is much more important than what you shoot. What you shoot will literally never make up for poor shooting.
vlavalle
Single-Sixer
Well, 'for some time now' shows your definite bias again.
"In July 2012, the USMC awarded Colt a $22.5 million contract for up to 12,000 M45A1 pistols with an initial order of 4036 pistols to replace the M45 MEU(SOC) pistol.[51][52] The Marine Corps issued the M45A1 to Force Reconnaissance companies, Marine Corps Special Operations Command (MARSOC) and Special Reaction Teams from the Provost Marshal's Office.[47] The new 1911 was designated M45A1 or "Close Quarters Battle Pistol" CQBP. The M45A1 features a dual recoil spring assembly, Picatinny rails and is cerakoted tan in color." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol). But it turned out that the gun manufacturer Colt was going downhill quickly, and the gun they produced was quite poor and cod not standup. The General who authorized it was also on the board of Colt, which was soon bought out by a European company - Česká zbrojovka Group. So, by 2017 they switched over to the M18, a 9mm pea shooter (124gr bullet at 951 fps) (http://www.military-today.com/firearms/m18.htm, which delivers ONLY 250 ft. lbs.
On the other hand, the military standard in general is now the M17, and it shoots also a 124gr bullet, but this one is at a speed of 1,198 (https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/sig-sauer-introduces-m17-9mm-p-ammunition), which generates 395 ft. lbs. of ME, which is considerably better, but still on the low end of power. According to my ballistics file, the average 9mm round has an ME of only 350 ft. lbs, from 200 different 9mm cartridges, and the average .45 ACP is 418, from also 200 unique rounds.. But the 9mm peaks pretty much at the 400 ft. lb. range, with an exception of 500 ft. lbs by Buffalo Bore, and the .45 ACP has several entries in the 600 ft. lbs range, and over 700 when yo include 45 Super, which is just a .45 ACP with the slightly thicker casing, and with power goes up into the 700;s.
So, your concept of not relevant' is unwarranted as well as your clear bias. Recently, the Marines did try to upscale ther handgun to a more powerful handgun, but got burned with the Colt M45A1 pistol.
I'm well aware of the Marine Corps trials. It was a huge failure. A good friend of mine was heavily involved in it and what you think you know about it is most likely incorrect. They were coming from an old Kimber at the time, and there is more to why they wanted a 1911 than actual unbiased performance. As there is in most gov't weapons procurement.
No bias on my end, just actual facts and experience. 45 works fine. So does 9.
Foot pounds of energy mean absolutely nothing whatsoever in determining real-world effectiveness. You might as well pick your weapons by their color or name, if you are going to insist on using easily calculated but completely incorrect standards.
No bias on my end, just actual facts and experience. 45 works fine. So does 9.
Foot pounds of energy mean absolutely nothing whatsoever in determining real-world effectiveness. You might as well pick your weapons by their color or name, if you are going to insist on using easily calculated but completely incorrect standards.
Dave Schwaab
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2014
- Messages
- 128
The Muzzle Energy most consumers use for the performance comparison of their ammunition loads is simply a calculation made using the Energy Formula of E=1/2 m v2. Heavier bullets at slightly slower speeds can produce higher muzzle energies because the velocity factor is squared. A particular muzzle energy may be achieved safely with one bullet/powder combination, while using a different powder, even in a smaller amount, can be dangerous because the burning rate of the powder produces a higher pressure in the chamber.
The point is, it is the pressure inside the chamber that limits the performance of any loading in a particular cartridge. The .45 Colt usually produces better ultimate performance than the .45 ACP by using heavier bullets.
vlavalle
Single-Sixer
Dave, your explanation of pressure is definitely correct, and this is the source of the power, i.e., the ft. lbs. of ME. But the 45LC vs the 45ACP is not due to the bullet weight. It is almost all do due the much higher velocity, and hence the pressure created. The .45ACP typical bullet is 230 gr, and the typical 45LC is 240 - 260gr. In fact, the very highest 45LC production round (1,344 ft. lbs. with a speed of 1,526 fps, by Buffalo Bore) is with a 260 gr bullet. This all makes sense with your descritoption about how the energy is calculated, and that the velocity is a way bigger factor on the energy level than the bullet weight.
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