Another thread has left me slightly confused so I'm hoping you guys can straighten me out. I'm talking about the guns that are SS, have an XR-3 RED gripframe also in SS, and come with white polymer stocks. Bobby Tyler Gunworks sells some on his site. Are the those guns built on the smaller frame? If so what is the max load for them? I don't normally shoot max loads, but my other 45's are on the larger frame. My most used load is a 250-280g bullet at 1100. 11g HS-6 with a deep seated bullet. Is this still safe in the smaller guns? Thanks very much for your help.
Current production Flattop convertible 45's
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eveled
Hawkeye
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The mid frame limit is around .45acp+p levels
What's the diameter of the cylinder? According to John Linebaugh, the cylinder size is the limiting factor for the loads (and not the top strap thickness).
Want diameters? Go here (table in article) : New Vaquero - Gun Blast
The medium frame flattop is same as New Vaquero except for the sights.
And yes, as said many many times, the cylinder is the limiting factor here. .45 Colt New Vaqueros and medium frame flattops are limited to Tier 2 loads (23K psi) . There is an article by Brian Pearce in handloader (awhile back) on the different tiers. FYI, I load 13gr HS-6 under 255g SWC (1139fps out of 5 1/2" barrel according to chronograph) which I feel is safe in either of my medium frame or large frame revolvers. That's a Teir 2 load according to the article. I use it as my woods load, not my general purpose all around load. YMMV of course and do your research/do diligence before loading....
It is really easy to know a flattop (has a flattop) vs. large frame (has ears around rear sight) . Also the serial number prefix will be 3 digits on the flattop and two digits on the large frame. Simple. Still confused, you can also contact this Bobby Tyler Gunworks and talk to them about what they sell.
The medium frame flattop is same as New Vaquero except for the sights.
And yes, as said many many times, the cylinder is the limiting factor here. .45 Colt New Vaqueros and medium frame flattops are limited to Tier 2 loads (23K psi) . There is an article by Brian Pearce in handloader (awhile back) on the different tiers. FYI, I load 13gr HS-6 under 255g SWC (1139fps out of 5 1/2" barrel according to chronograph) which I feel is safe in either of my medium frame or large frame revolvers. That's a Teir 2 load according to the article. I use it as my woods load, not my general purpose all around load. YMMV of course and do your research/do diligence before loading....
It is really easy to know a flattop (has a flattop) vs. large frame (has ears around rear sight) . Also the serial number prefix will be 3 digits on the flattop and two digits on the large frame. Simple. Still confused, you can also contact this Bobby Tyler Gunworks and talk to them about what they sell.
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Hondo44
Hawkeye
The gun you describe if in original configuration from Ruger is a large frame and safe with any 45 Colt loads. To be sure it should have protective ribs on both sides of the rear sight (it's not a flattop).
Its large frame cyl is 1.732" in diameter.
Mid frame cyls are 1.675" in diameter.
eveled
Hawkeye
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I enjoy mine with the acp cylinder. The stubby rounds are easy to load, the emptys pretty much fall out on their own.
It also can be loaded from a 1911 mag
It also can be loaded from a 1911 mag
Mine is getting ready to ship, pretty excited to shoot it. I had a mid frame 44 spl from Bowen for many years, but it had a Bisley grip and I have just never warmed up to the Bisley grip. For the power levels I need, the XR3 seems best, but maybe I will like the XR3-RED even more.
eveled, do you swap to the Colt cylinder much? My large frame convertible shoots acp very well, but changing the sight setting kind of wears on me. I mostly use the acp cylinder for introducing people to the gun, and not having to load for it.
eveled, do you swap to the Colt cylinder much? My large frame convertible shoots acp very well, but changing the sight setting kind of wears on me. I mostly use the acp cylinder for introducing people to the gun, and not having to load for it.
vlavalle
Single-Sixer
I am an owner of Ruger .45 Colt Flattop convertible, and it IS easy to see because the bar across the top is flat. Buffalo Bore makes high powerede .45 Colt rounds, and I am allowed to shoot only the 1,219 ft. lbs rounds, which I have shot, and there are immensxely powerful and full of real kick. My revolver has a 5 1.2" barrel. Buffalo Bore make two more powerful loads, and the upper one is 1,344 ft. lbs. of ME, which I dare not shot in this gun. So, what is described by RClark is indeed a Ruger Flattop, and you should not shot the higher powered rounds.
On the other hand, I can shoot any power level of the .45ACP, and so far the max I have shot is the Atomic 1225 fps, 185gr rounds, which produce 616 ft. lbs. The kick here is still quite minimal. I will try one day a Super .45 round that will be in the 700 ft. lbs. range. It is this version of the .45 auto-pistol that I think the US military should be using instead of the pea shooter 9mm. This way, they can load the gun with any .45ACP round, to suit whatever the needs are by the group.
For those doubters out there about the 9mm round, contact me and I will send you my ballistics file that shows what a pea shooter the 9mm round actually really is, and how the .45ACP is so much more. Actually, the best all around round caliber is the .357 Mag, but I do not think that there is any semi-auto pistol made that shoots this any longer. The .357 round can deliver up to 907 ft. lbs. of ME, which may be a bit too powerful for many to shoot. I also have a Ruger 6 1/2" Blackhawk, and while it kicks (and is very loud!) with this heavy load, it is nothing like the .45lC round at 1,219 round from Buffalo Bore out of my Ruger .45 Colt Flattop.
Snake Pleskin
Banned
I guess all those that have fallen from a 9mm , which is 100 times more than ever fell from a .45acp, would argue with you , if they could.
Dave Schwaab
Single-Sixer
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I have the .45 Flat Top Convertible in a 4.62" blued model.
It is built on the older mid-sized frame, like the New Vaqueros. I first became aware of them from an article in "Handloader" magazine. The article stated that the gun could easily handle .45 ACP +P pressures, so any .45 Colt loads, even those considered "Ruger or Contender Only", should be okay. Just don't try to make it a .45 Colt MAGNUM.
I don't usually modify my guns, but, since I have smaller hands, I put in a lighter Wolff Hammer Spring and a SBH Hammer for easier one-handed shooting.
It is built on the older mid-sized frame, like the New Vaqueros. I first became aware of them from an article in "Handloader" magazine. The article stated that the gun could easily handle .45 ACP +P pressures, so any .45 Colt loads, even those considered "Ruger or Contender Only", should be okay. Just don't try to make it a .45 Colt MAGNUM.
I don't usually modify my guns, but, since I have smaller hands, I put in a lighter Wolff Hammer Spring and a SBH Hammer for easier one-handed shooting.
Snake Pleskin
Banned
Nice pistol!
vlavalle
Single-Sixer
Cute prospective! All that means is that there have been a lot more shootings with the 9mm, but it is by far much weaker then the .45 ACP. And before COVID, the pricing difference was the two ammo was about 10%. Now, so many retailers out there are out to gauge the public. Only in the past week or so have I seem ammo costs come down substantially.
As I said before, all those disbelivers and propenents of the 9mm should get my ballistics file and it would become so very clear. But I think it has become an emotional issue, and even if the .45ACP was 10 times stronger, 9mm followers would still say it is better. Snake Pleskin, are you one of those? To get my ballistics file, just send me a request here.
Snake Pleskin
Banned
Thanks, but I do not need ballistic files. That has all been done 100 times before. All of Europe uses it, most Police and Govt here in the USA use it. It is a well proven, documented, round. It is easier to control, comes in much better platforms, larger capacity and has loadings to suit anyone and any need. IMHO
Here is some interesting reading, that might (or might not ;>) be relevant to the never-ending 'Caliber Wars':
Handgun or Pistol Against Bear Attacks 104 cases, 97% Effective
As I've noted in the past, it's probably best to just carry whatever suits your own circumstances!
Handgun or Pistol Against Bear Attacks 104 cases, 97% Effective
As I've noted in the past, it's probably best to just carry whatever suits your own circumstances!
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vlavalle
Single-Sixer
Well, it definitely sounds like you are one of those! First, the 9mm vame from Europe and was used in their military (predominantly Germany), and secondly, the 9mm was incorporated by the US military in the mid 80's due to its extra cost and more limited capacity, and more kick. And look what has happened to the US military whenever we are in a non all out army to army battle.
The 'pea' shooter does little, as well as the M-16 .556 pea shooter. This is partly why we 'lost' in Afghanistan. They are not afraid of us much at all on the ground. This was totally different in WW II and Korea, but once again in Vietnam with our 'pea shooter' M-16. Before with the M1 and the M-14, they had almost 3 times the power per round of today's M-16. But you apparently pay little or no attention to ballistics, so how would you possible know any of this? I suspect that this is the case with most 9mm followers.
vlavalle
Single-Sixer
Thank you for this link, and I went down most of it. It is very interesting in detailing occurances with man and a bear and usually a gun. But I did not find it too enlightening on caliber, knock down power, and safety. Even the .22 had a good record! But here are the things that are clear from this account telling:Here is some interesting reading, that might (or might not ;>) be relevant to the never-ending 'Caliber Wars':
Handgun or Pistol Against Bear Attacks 104 cases, 97% Effective
As I've noted in the past, it's probably best to just carry whatever suits your own circumstances!
1) You MUST hit the object (in \all h=of these cases, the bear), and not just shoot it in the air or miss. I was surprised to see that with the .357 Mag, one instance was a 'failure'. This was because he never hit the bear! so, the heading for each caliber is a bit misleading. The .357 Mag has well over double the power of a 9mm, although with almost any caliber, that would depend on the actual loads.
2) The actual loads are not discussed anywhere. This is particularly important with non 9mm loads since all the other calibers have power ratings that vary greatly, sometimes varying 3-4 times the power of a similar low end caliber round. The 9mm caliber is fairly consistent om its power.
3) ALL the 4xx calibers were 100% successful. But again, the term 'successful' in this list can also be misleading. But in most cases, the 4xx round killed the bear on the scene. But with lesser powered ammo, such as the 9mm and the .45ACP, it took many shots to get the bear to leave or die.
4) Some of the reports used the term 'pistol' when they really means handgun, and the gun was probably a revolver. Revolvers are not pistols, in spite of what you see in the movies, and on a lot of the ammo sites. So, in these cases, the caliber was a bit ambiguous, other than the category it was listed in.
5) There is a big difference between a female Black bear, a male Black bear, a female Grizzly, and a male Grizzly. But all of these occurrences with the various bears are lumped together, within the caliber with which they were shot. I really can't see anyone using a 9mm or a .45ACP or a 40mm on a big male Grizzly.
And I would like to thank the_leper_colony for the link. It was very interesting, especailly with all the black bear attacks, which I thought were suppose to be quite docile and run from humans all the time.
But I have to reiterate my comments above about the 9mm and M-16 'pea shooters' in a military situation. In this sort of situation, you want one shot too take down the assailant or target, and for them to not shoot back. This happened in WW II and Korea with the M1 and the BAR, and even the Tommy gun, and early on in the Vietnam with the M-14, which shot .308 rounds. The BAR was absolutely devestaing, and was completely different from the mass shooting you get from the full auto fire of the M-16., as it tore up everything it was fired at. The 1911 used the .45ACP round, and it did the same thing in close, although I do not know the exact load they used in the military back then. Today, our guys on the ground are defintely at an unwarranted disadvantage, shooting against AK-47's everywhere.
vlavalle, just curious, have you ever served in a military or police role? I don't mind thread drift at all, as real conversations tend to do that, but your repeated insistence about 9 vs 45 does give one pause, especially as it's completely irrelevent.
Hondo44
Hawkeye
Oh Okay. But if it has the XR3-RED grip frame someone has changed it. If it's the original FT NM mid frame, grip frame it is the old model XR3 size, 1/8" shorter horizontally than the XR3-RED and only marked with a K in a circle on a stainless gun. It's also only 7/16" wide instead of the standard 1/2" wide.
The XR3-RED is actually better for not busting your knuckles with heavier loads and are often changed on the large caliber NM FT mid frame guns. Especially on the NM FT 44 mag which is a large frame.
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