Smokeless powder cylinder for Ruger Old Army

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Onty

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Messages
491
Anybody interested in SMOKELESS POWDER CYLINDER FOR RUGER OLD ARMY?

I just had a conversation with the lady from Howell Arms https://www.howellarms.com/ regarding manufacturing of SMOKELESS CYLINDER FOR MUZZLE-LOADING REVOLVER, using 209 shotgun primers. They have patent for such cylinder:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=2005016050&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP#

US2005016050 (A1) - SMOKELESS CYLINDER FOR MUZZLE-LOADING REVOLVER

espacenetImage.jpg


They made some years back, and as it stands now, they consider that market is limited for such product, and have no intention of manufacturing it at present time. However, if we can organize group buy and have order for at least 50 cylinders to be made, either standard alloy (blue) or stainless, they will consider manufacturing them again. As for the price, I do not have it yet, but expect to be close to their conversion cylinders for 45 ACP and 45 Colt.

Anybody interested?

FYI, I will post the same on two other forums, and hopefully, we will have order for 50.
 

daveg.inkc

Hunter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Messages
2,503
Location
Kansas City, MO
With the higher pressure, a #10 or #11 cap would not work. When Bill Ruger was testing the Old Army, he and Harry Segfred, ( hope I got name right). Had to open nipples to get Bullseye powder to light. They filled cylinders,, trying to get it to break. The 209's would be safer and give needed hot ignition. I'd be interested in a couple. Blue and SS.
 

The Happy Kaboomer

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
105
Location
SC
Why not just use a "Taylor's" conversion cylinder. Just remove the back plate. Insert the COMPLETE 45 LC cartridges in the cylinder.
Put the back plate on and insert into the gun and you're GTG.
 

Onty

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Messages
491
Regarding shotgun 209 primers, they are much more reliable, and they allow use of Blackhorn 209 smokeless powder. Brits are using for years conversion cylinders for shotgun primers, because with them they could use other smokeless powders. Black powder is hassle over there, so most shooters just avoid it because they need a special license in order to purchase it. On top of that, muzzle loading pistols and revolvers are the only one they could have They could have pistols and revolvers in standard cartridges, but ridiculously long barrels and extensions must be installed:

redhawk1.jpg


In addition, as far as I know, in all European countries folks need permits for firearms, especially for handguns. In most countries getting permit for long firearms is not big deal, but getting permit for handgun could be very hard. Some countries limit number of firearms person could have. Things could be quite easier for muzzle loading handguns. In some countries you do not need permit to purchase one, eventually just to register it once you get it. Here is how it looks like when standard 357 magnum DA revolver is converted to muzzle loading one:

o5kTZsh.jpg


More here http://www.westlakeengineering.com/products/ .

As for USA, I am not familiar with situation regarding BP revolvers, differs from state to state. But, if I remember correctly from some posts, in muzzle loading hunting season only BP handguns are allowed. Now, if someone hunts with BP handgun, I bet that revolver with shotgun primer will have considerable edge.

Also, those living in northern, colder areas in USA and Canada, know that most of indoor ranges prohibit use of BP or other smoky substitutes. When you have a cold climate, that means no shooting C&B revolvers some years as long as 4-5 months. Heck, when I was working in Thunder Bay, ON, Canada, we had one year foot of snow first weekend in May. Also, a number of shooters reported disintegration of those cups, or whole cups falling down and locking the revolver. In addition, using BP, Pyrodex or Triple 7 means having a lot of stuff that is quite aggressive on steel, even stainless. Well, a seasoned C&B shooter will take apart his revolver and clean it thoroughly. I am one of those reluctant to do that. In that case, smokeless powder is "a life saver" for us lazy shooters.

Good point regarding "Why not just use a "Taylor's" conversion cylinder." and shot complete 45 LC or 45 ACP cartridges. In USA yes for general shooting. However, any conversion cylinder will set you back $250-300, plus C&B revolver. So, if one relay likes to have possibility of shooting 45 Colt or 45 ACP in C&B revolver, that's fine. Otherwise, IMHO just standard Ruger NMB in 45 Colt, or convertible 45 Colt and 45 ACP is the way to go.
 

Cbvanb

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
10
Onty said:
Anybody interested in SMOKELESS POWDER CYLINDER FOR RUGER OLD ARMY?

I just had a conversation with the lady from Howell Arms https://www.howellarms.com/ regarding manufacturing of SMOKELESS CYLINDER FOR MUZZLE-LOADING REVOLVER, using 209 shotgun primers. They have patent for such cylinder:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=2005016050&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP#

US2005016050 (A1) - SMOKELESS CYLINDER FOR MUZZLE-LOADING REVOLVER

espacenetImage.jpg


They made some years back, and as it stands now, they consider that market is limited for such product, and have no intention of manufacturing it at present time. However, if we can organize group buy and have order for at least 50 cylinders to be made, either standard alloy (blue) or stainless, they will consider manufacturing them again. As for the price, I do not have it yet, but expect to be tad more than their conversion cylinders for 45 ACP and 45 Colt.

Anybody interested?

FYI, I will post the same on two other forums, and hopefully, we will have order for 50.
I'm in for two.
 

Onty

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Messages
491
Small progress on our wish list:

1. daveg.inkc: 1 stainless, 1 blue
2. Cbvanb: 1 stainless, 1 blue
 

coach

Hunter
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
3,767
Location
Jacksonville, Maryland
Just wondering how it should be loaded.
1. Push in bullets, remove cylinder & Backplate, drop in powder & primers, reassemble.
2. Drop in powder & Push in bullet, remove cylinder and prime, reassemble.
3. I wouldn't want to put in primers first then front load for obvious reasons.
What's the best way to measure powder and place it in the cylinder.
I understand how to load my Old Army, but this puzzles me a bit with safety on my mind.
 

Onty

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Messages
491
Cbvanb said:
Onty said:
Small progress on our wish list:

1. daveg.inkc: 1 stainless, 1 blue
2. Cbvanb: 2 (blue or stainless?)
Make it one of each.
I made correction.

Now, bad news for me and others outside of USA; Howell Arms told me that their products cannot be exported, even if I find licensed exporter. The issue is ITAR and Howell Arms company has to go through whole process. As it stands now, is not gonna happen in foreseeable future.

In that respect, I cannot participate. If somebody else wants to take over and moderate this, please feel free to do so.
 
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