.45 Colt and W296/H110 Max

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BigJ71

Single-Sixer
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Mar 23, 2008
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I was looking to load up to some stiff .45 Colt loads using Winchester 296 so I got out my books and the best I can tell the powder range for a .452 300gr Hornady XTP Mag using W296 is 17.9 minimum to 21.7 maximum providing an approximate velocity of 1050 to 1300fps respectively.

A friend of mine who has been reloading for some time now swears by 22gr of W296 under Hornady 300gr XTP mags and WLP. I have also found data on the web from some of the more well known reloading sites of folks using up to 23gr of H110 (same powder right?) with that same bullet/primer combo.

So can anyone shed some light on this? I of course will work up to my final max load but are these loads over 21.7 safe in a Blackhawk .45?
 

tek4260

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I would stick with the book max since you are using jacketed bullets. The cast boolits allow a bit more due to the fact there is less resistance than the jacketed stuff, therefore less pressure for a given bullet weight.
 

BigJ71

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tek4260 said:
I would stick with the book max since you are using jacketed bullets. The cast boolits allow a bit more due to the fact there is less resistance than the jacketed stuff, therefore less pressure for a given bullet weight.

Yep, I don't plan on exceeding the listed max, I was just wondering why folks going higher (22gr and even 23gr) with the Hornady XTP 300grain bullets out of their Blackhawks. It seems they would also be able to look up the listed load data. Am I missing something here?
 

flatgate

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Star Valley, WY
With jacketed bullets I'd certainly study the bullet producer's recommended loads.

I've not fired a jacketed bullet down a single action revolver barrel for a long, long time......

I routinely load 22.0 gr. of WW-296 under my 325 gr./335 gr. store bought cast, gas checked .45 cal. bullets and the same charge under the 300 gr. examples that roar out the barrels of my .44 mags.

Mag Large Pistol Primers and a FIRM crimp.

Lots of fun at most any range, too!

These are MY LOADS that are fired in MY GUNS. YOUR EXPERIENCES MAY VARY!!!!

flatgate
 

BCB

Bearcat
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In a Blackhawk that I have, I have shot 23.0 grains of H-110 and the 45-270-SAA (283 grains). But, I have settled on 21 or 22 grains...

If you like recoil this type of reload is for you!!!...

I actually hurt the web of my shooting hand shooting bunches of these loads. As well as 20.0 grains of Lil'Gun...

There really is no need for them as far as I am concerned--live and learn!!!...

It is my opinion that 23.0 grains would be max. But there are writings by several well know authors that shoot even heavier...

But, to each his own...

Good-luck...BCB
 

BigJ71

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BCB said:
In a Blackhawk that I have, I have shot 23.0 grains of H-110 and the 45-270-SAA (283 grains). But, I have settled on 21 or 22 grains...

If you like recoil this type of reload is for you!!!...

I actually hurt the web of my shooting hand shooting bunches of these loads. As well as 20.0 grains of Lil'Gun...

There really is no need for them as far as I am concerned--live and learn!!!...

It is my opinion that 23.0 grains would be max. But there are writings by several well know authors that shoot even heavier...

But, to each his own...

Good-luck...BCB

Yeah, I know with lead you can get away with more but I'm wondering why folks will use 22gr and even 23gr under a 300gr .452 jacketed bullet.

Thanks for all the responses guys....
 

tek4260

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carroll county ms
BigJ71 said:
BCB said:
In a Blackhawk that I have, I have shot 23.0 grains of H-110 and the 45-270-SAA (283 grains). But, I have settled on 21 or 22 grains...

If you like recoil this type of reload is for you!!!...

I actually hurt the web of my shooting hand shooting bunches of these loads. As well as 20.0 grains of Lil'Gun...

There really is no need for them as far as I am concerned--live and learn!!!...

It is my opinion that 23.0 grains would be max. But there are writings by several well know authors that shoot even heavier...

But, to each his own...

Good-luck...BCB

Yeah, I know with lead you can get away with more but I'm wondering why folks will use 22gr and even 23gr under a 300gr .452 jacketed bullet.

Thanks for all the responses guys....

The reason is because you can. It is over book max but is probably safe with good brass. AND it is probably more accurate than 20 and 21 gr. Lots of reading here there and yonder for you to do :D

Don't do it because I say........
 

sixshot

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Many people, usually inexperienced shooters seem to think that you can load a grain or even 2 grs over max & because their gun didn't blow up they will look you in the eye & say its SAFE in their gun....well, they are playing with fire.
Guns are "proofed" beyond what the books show as maxium because there are so many variables in reloading. When you exceed that 32,000 psi threshold that most manufacturers list as safe in guns like full size Rugers then you are into that danger zone where you exceed even a proof load & damage the gun or hurt yourself.
The real question is, why! Does it make any sense to exceed factory recommended loads for an extra 50-100 fps so you can tell your buddies that your gun is faster & the recoil is way up there but you like it. An iron sighted sixgun isn't meant to be a 270, its a sixgun & they all have limits, mess with that limit & you can get educated real fast.
Ruger 44 maggies are proofed at about 80,000 psi so top loads should stop at 40,000 for a 100% safety margin, Ruger 45's are proofed at about 60,000 or slightly higher so top end loads should stop at about 32,000 psi, again for a 100% safety margin.
If you are playing with these maximum loads & change any single component, primer, brass, powder, brand of bullet, temperature, etc. you've now entered that gray area where you can get hurt, beware!

Dick
 

contender

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God Bless you sixshot. An excellent explaniation of why things are the way they are. I guess a lot of folks MUST have the pressure testing equipment to be shooting stuff above posted safe limits.
Me,,,???? I like accuracy vs recoil. It's funny how many of my loads are not max yet shoot quite accurately. And the critters are dead on impact.
 

BigJ71

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Illinois
tek4260 said:
And if you are interested in heavy loads, leave the jacketed stuff to your 220 Swift and such.

Nah, I like jacketed bullets, they're clean and very consistent for me, especially the Hornadys. I do have some heavy bangers in lead but I leave that super max loading stuff to the factory (Buffalo Bore, Corbon, etc...).


I wanted to try the 300 grain XTP mags as I've only loaded the regular 300grain XTP's in the past. I've loaded the regular 300gr XTP with 19gr of W296 and it's a good accurate Whitetail load, so I'll probably start at 19gr and end up between 20 and 21gr.....at least I'm thinking I should find something around there that my gun likes. I want to push the mags a little faster but nothing crazy.
 

Bucks Owin

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BigJ71, the 300 mags are intended for .454 Casull velocities. If you want them to open up in a .45LC you best push them as crazy as possible! :lol:
Seriously, I would stick with the "plain" XTP and even then expect expansion to be hit and miss. Personally, the XTP doesn't impress, I'd rather shoot a cast bullet...JMO (Or maybe the 250 XTP @ 1200+)

recoveredXTP.jpg
 

BigJ71

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Bucks Owin said:
BigJ71, the 300 mags are intended for .454 Casull velocities. If you want them to open up in a .45LC you best push them as crazy as possible! :lol:
Seriously, I would stick with the "plain" XTP and even then expect expansion to be hit and miss. Personally, the XTP doesn't impress, I'd rather shoot a cast bullet...JMO (Or maybe the 250 XTP @ 1200+)

recoveredXTP.jpg

Yeah, I know I'm going to be a little too slow for them to open up good but I'm really looking for good penetration out of these, for bigger tougher critters and such.

The plain XTP's are what I use for Whitetails and they have worked great for me in the past, I'll stick with them.

I'm just looking to load up some heavy hitters with the XTP Mags
 

Mike Mulligan

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Upstate NY
sixshot said:
Many people, usually inexperienced shooters seem to think that you can load a grain or even 2 grs over max & because their gun didn't blow up they will look you in the eye & say its SAFE in their gun....well, they are playing with fire.
Guns are "proofed" beyond what the books show as maxium because there are so many variables in reloading. When you exceed that 32,000 psi threshold that most manufacturers list as safe in guns like full size Rugers then you are into that danger zone where you exceed even a proof load & damage the gun or hurt yourself.
The real question is, why! Does it make any sense to exceed factory recommended loads for an extra 50-100 fps so you can tell your buddies that your gun is faster & the recoil is way up there but you like it. An iron sighted sixgun isn't meant to be a 270, its a sixgun & they all have limits, mess with that limit & you can get educated real fast.
Ruger 44 maggies are proofed at about 80,000 psi so top loads should stop at 40,000 for a 100% safety margin, Ruger 45's are proofed at about 60,000 or slightly higher so top end loads should stop at about 32,000 psi, again for a 100% safety margin.
If you are playing with these maximum loads & change any single component, primer, brass, powder, brand of bullet, temperature, etc. you've now entered that gray area where you can get hurt, beware!

Dick

DEFINITELY worth keeping in mind! And reading again! Well said!
 

volshooter

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EAST TN, USA
Reminds me of a question I posted some time ago. I have several boxes of 340gr WFP that I bought for a .454 Casull. I got rid of that wrist breaker. I could not find any info for using these hard cast in a New Vaqureo at low fps. I will probly melt those hard cast down and recast to aa useable gr.

Basically, I figure if you need more power, get a bigger gun.
 

Bucks Owin

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BigJ71 said:
Yeah, I know I'm going to be a little too slow for them to open up good but I'm really looking for good penetration out of these, for bigger tougher critters and such.

Then personally, I'd be loading a waterdropped WW 325 gr cast. Penetration in spades! :wink:

But many folks dote on the XTP and power to 'em I say.... 8)

PS: Excellent post sixshot.
 

BigJ71

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Bucks Owin said:
BigJ71 said:
Yeah, I know I'm going to be a little too slow for them to open up good but I'm really looking for good penetration out of these, for bigger tougher critters and such.

Then personally, I'd be loading a waterdropped WW 325 gr cast. Penetration in spades! :wink:

But many folks dote on the XTP and power to 'em I say.... 8)

PS: Excellent post sixshot.

I hear ya, but as I posted earlier, I'll leave the super heavy hitting, full max .45Colt loads to the factory stuff. I have no problem buying a couple boxes of Buffalo Bore hard cast stuff for when I travel to the north west (done it many times). There ammo as well as the other +P manufacturers is proved and reliable. If I had the time or the inkling, I'd give a shot at reloading super max heavy cast loads, but I have neither.

I'll stick to the jacketed stuff, it's worked perfect for me with none of the hassles that can sometimes be associated with buying or casting lead ie: forcing cone and barrel leading, correct lube, cleanup, sizing, correct hardness etc..

I was just looking to load up some decent penetrating loads for some of the more "thick skinned" critters I sometimes run into or hunt. I've elk hunted many times with a rifle and I'd like to try it with a revolver but I was looking to get a little more power. I don't know if my whitetail load with the regular XTP's will cut the mustard, I think the XTP Mags will hold together better and penetrate deeper.

I shoot and hunt for fun, I have no problem burning through hundreds of rounds of Rainier or Berry's loaded up to about 1,100fps with good accuracy. I'll shoot at cans and such all day with those loads and they are super easy to re-load and like I said, plenty accurate (especially my shooting LOL!)

I'll dial in my hunting loads but even they don't need to be super tight groups. When I get to the right load where I can put them all in a target the size of a deer heart at the range I'm sighted in for then I'm happy.

I think I know the powder grain range I need to be in so I'll load some up and do some testing.
 

dougader

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If you have the same Hornady manual as I do, then you'll notice their velocities are taken from their loads fired in a 10" T/C Contender. So 1300 fps with 21.7 grains ww296 is a little bit optimistic in my experience.

Even so, my usual "Ruger only" load for a 300 grain xtp, Sierra jsp, or a hardcast 335 grain WFNGC is 22 grains WW296. These run about 1200 fps (1196 - 1211 fps over my chrony) from a Bisley 45 Colt with a 5.5" barrel.

Some data shows more powder than others, but I don't see a need for anything more than this in Oregon. This would include big game like elk and black bear. John Linebaugh claims a 300 grain hardcast @ 1200 fps will go through elk like a hot knife through butter. If I want more power than that, I'll move up to a 454 or a 480.

In fact, when I go fishing I carry even lighter. And I have run across black bear where I fish but they always run away as soon as they see me. I like a 255 - 265 grain hardcast at 1000 fps for a general woods gun around here.
 
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