Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

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Oro
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Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Oro »

Does anyone know of a refinisher who is skilled at CCH'ing a Blackhawk frame? I do know of Turnbull but am not interested in using them for this, and am aware it needs to be someone who knows how to do it successfully with the cast frame material.

I can disassemble the gun and remove the barrel myself and send it ready for finishing. It's a late 60s three-screw .357 for note - nothing odd or peculiar. The bluing on it is pretty darn good but I just love that look and it would make the gun much more special and more of a "keeper" to me.
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

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Cholo
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Cholo »

↑ They only do color casing, not color case hardening. From their website:

COLOR CASING
Here at Tyler Gun Works, we are able to Color Case items others can't, due to our ability to work at lower temps. We keep our temperatures below hardening temperatures.

Here's a pic from his website. It looks a lot different than the older Colts or Turnbull's work, but it is quite attractive.

Image

Oro, Google "Who does color case hardening on firearms?" and you will get a list to look at.
Let's just sit here awhile and see what happens...
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by rugerguy »

yes, over the years we had few that would do ANY sort of case color ,let alone "hardening" of Ruger guns as they are cast 4140 chrome moly alloy, and being a "complex metal" can get 'brittle' and break, and yes we've seen this happen many years ago with early Ruger Blackhawks back in the late 50's and 60's....Turnbull , and Tyler use their own "proprietary" methods, mainly lower temps, so as to NOT "harden" but nicely color case, not the "inked on process" Ruger did with the Vaqueros years ago.........which they do NOT even offer any longer....... 8) :roll: :wink:

Here's the last one Bobby Tyler did for us.....

Image

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Oro
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Oro »

needsmostuff wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:24 am Bobby Tyler

https://www.tylergunworks.com/
That is precisely what I'm looking for. Thanks. I will call them.
Cholo wrote: ↑ They only do color casing, not color case hardening. From their website:
Yes, I should have said that and not CCH'ing.

I did do a google search last night and came up with only one candidate to call on Monday morning, This place, Wyoming Armory:

http://www.wyomingarmory.com/services.html

However it was unclear if they could accommodate the Ruger. The price didn't seem unreasonable ($125 for ready-to-go frame/gate/hammer). It occurred to me to ask here since I wasn't clearly finding much and someone here would know who would accomodate a Ruger besides Turnbull. I respect their work and have for ages, but the wait time and costs didn't seem worth it in this case.
rugerguy wrote: Here's the last one Bobby Tyler did for us.....
That looks really nice.

Now if I send the frame off for refinishing, I have to contemplate taking the ears down as flat-topping it sure would make it look better. I think the sight tang is pinned too high to do that, though. I have some bonded ivory (the "nice" fake stuff) grips I found for it. I'll try to find some lone star medallions or something to inlet into them and then make this a real purty gun...
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by contender »

I too will give a big shout out about using Bobby Tyler. I've seen & handled MANY of his fine guns. You can trust him to do an excellent job. And he has a pretty quick turn around time.

And since you mentioned plastic fake ivories,, with lone star medallions, may I suggest you consider a different option. Check out Lone Star Custom Grips,, Zane,, (lscg member here,) does excellent work,, and using American Holly as a material. It has a very similar look to ivory. It has fooled many folks. And American Holly isn't plastic.
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Hondo44 »

Oro wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:28 pm
Now if I send the frame off for refinishing, I have to contemplate taking the ears down as flat-topping it sure would make it look better. I think the sight tang is pinned too high to do that, though. I have some bonded ivory (the "nice" fake stuff) grips I found for it. I'll try to find some lone star medallions or something to inlet into them and then make this a real purty gun...
That's true, the rear sight pin must be lowered to remove the sight ears. A couple of suggestions:

1. Find an OM flat top to have case hardened and sell the gun you have. that'll save you a few bucks.

2. Send your frame and hammer to one of the Ruger smiths below to remove the ears, redrill for the sight pin, and who will forward you frame and hammer to Tyler for case coloring.

Ben Forkin - Forkin Custom Classics
PO Box 444, 205 10th Ave SW
White Sulphur Springs, MT 59645
406-547-2344
mailto:forkins@ttc-cmc.net

Andy Horvath - DIAGONAL ROAD GUN SHOP
14131 Diagonal Rd.
La Grange, OH 44050
(440) 458-4369, (440) 355-5618

Jack Huntington (may start barrel re-boring)
JRH Advanced Gunsmithing
775-355-6898
385 Freeport Blvd, Suite 13
Sparks, NV 89431
mailto:jack@jrhgunmaker.com
New website: http://www.jrhadvancedgunsmithing.com
Old site: www.jrhgunmaker.com/
His turnaround time is short, his work is first rate, and his prices are reasonable.

Ten Ring Precision in San Antonio, TX
Address: 1449 Blue Crest Ln, San Antonio, TX 78232
Phone: (210) 494-3063

Long Hunter
Amarillo, TX
http://www.longhunt.com/web/
Sounds like a nice package for $135.
Taper cylinder and ejector rod housing $45.00 USD – This page:
http://www.longhunt.com/web/index.php?p ... awk-bisley

Oglesby & Oglesby Gunmakers
Bill Oglesby
744 W Andrew Road
Springfield, IL 62707-4626
Phone: (217) 487-7100
Cool video: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Oglesby- ... 8046696474
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Oro »

Hondo44 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:46 am
1. Find an OM flat top to have case hardened and sell the gun you have. that'll save you a few bucks.
That's the decision I came to late last night when contemplating this a bunch more.

This gun is in really pretty nice shape as-is. Thinking about the ever-shrinking well of good, unmolested old models, it doesn't make sense to be making a project out of it and eliminating one more original example in nice shape. I don't have experience collecting Rugers, but I have other makes for quite a few years and it was always a rule of mine never to mess with an original example of something desirable in nice shape.

So I've decided:

1) for this one I'll make a "brass look" grip frame and some interesting grips, and call it good. I bought an extra grip frame for it off another forum member here so this morning, so I'll leave all the original parts unmolested. I'll fit grips to the spare and then strip and cerakote it to a brass finish.

2) Keep looking for a real flat-top in need of work and then case color that one; bring it back to something sharp vs. leaving it to decay.

Other Q: I believe this is correct, but a Dragoon old model frame would not require any alteration to mount on an old model Blackhawk, correct? In case I wanted a Navy grip feel vs. Army.
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by contender »

"Other Q: I believe this is correct, but a Dragoon old model frame would not require any alteration to mount on an old model Blackhawk, correct? In case I wanted a Navy grip feel vs. Army."

The screw hole pattern for all those OM's are the same.
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Hondo44 »

Oro wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:52 pm
Hondo44 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:46 am
1. Find an OM flat top to have case hardened and sell the gun you have. that'll save you a few bucks.
So I've decided:

1) for this one I'll make a "brass look" grip frame and some interesting grips, and call it good. I bought an extra grip frame for it off another forum member here so this morning, so I'll leave all the original parts unmolested. I'll fit grips to the spare and then strip and cerakote it to a brass finish.

2) Keep looking for a real flat-top in need of work and then case color that one; bring it back to something sharp vs. leaving it to decay.

Other Q: I believe this is correct, but a Dragoon old model frame would not require any alteration to mount on an old model Blackhawk, correct? In case I wanted a Navy grip feel vs. Army.
I like your decision!

1. Those alloy grip frames can be brass plated and will look just like a solid brass frame. The last one I did cost about the same as the $40 for a can of cerakote.

2. Yes an OM Dragoon grip will screw right on. But it has a wider trigger slot for the Super BH wide trigger. You can find one of those as well. Or if you don't prefer the sq back trigger guard and prefer a round trigger guard, you can easily adapt a Hunter model .44 or .22 dragoon grip which has a rd guard. They only come in stainless but then after fitting it to the sides of your frame, you won't have to touch up the bluing, just polish it. Ask for adapting details if interested.
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Oro »

Hondo44 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:07 pm 1. Those alloy grip frames can be brass plated and will look just like a solid brass frame. The last one I did cost about the same as the $40 for a can of cerakote.
OK, I'll consider that vs. cerakote. Pros and cons each way.

2. Yes an OM Dragoon grip will screw right on. But it has a wider trigger slot for the Super BH wide trigger. You can find one of those as well. Or if you don't prefer the sq back trigger guard and prefer a round trigger guard, you can easily adapt a Hunter model .44 or .22 dragoon grip which has a rd guard. They only come in stainless but then after fitting it to the sides of your frame, you won't have to touch up the bluing, just polish it. Ask for adapting details if interested.
Yes, I'm interested in fitting either longer frame to the gun to get the longer grip. I know from shooting the New Vaqueros I had, and my dad's NM Blackhawk, it suits my grip and hand much better.
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Hondo44 »

Well if you don't mind the sq back trigger guard, definitely use an OM dragoon grip.

But if you want the NM dragoon with rd guard (or any other NM grip frame on an OM) here's two optional ways to do it:

Option 1. Just add a spring shelf by having it Tig welded or brazed to your OM trigger and use the NM trigger return spring.

Option 2. The very simplest. You can use a fired .22 LR case to hold the OM return spring and plunger in place. Use the NM trigger return spring retaining pin closest to the trigger to hold your OM trigger return spring/plunger and .22 case in place. File a small notch in the .22 case head to nest on the retaining pin.
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Fox Mike »

I see a lot of CCH places but nowhere can I find the going price to CCH or at least to color the frame.
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Oro »

Fox Mike wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:44 am I see a lot of CCH places but nowhere can I find the going price to CCH or at least to color the frame.
See my post above about WY armory, he has prices posted and they are reasonable. $125 for frame, gate, hammer.

Being ex-Navy, the next best thing I can say is that I know a few armored cav jokes. But I will refrain for now since:

The other day I told a joke about an armored vehicle with a rotating gun turret.
It tanked.

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;)
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Re: Anyone who can case harden a three screw Blackhawk frame?

Post by Oro »

Hondo44 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:39 pm Well if you don't mind the sq back trigger guard, definitely use an OM dragoon grip.
I don't mind the sq trigger guard at all. It's for gunning and I can fit/finish it to look good. I will keep the original parts on hand for the unforseen future. I'd rather avoid rigging an nm grip frame in a drill press and drilling it as I've seen in other threads. I can do it, have a press and the skills, but rather not.

I am going to pick this gun up today but I was playing with my dad's NM 4 5/8's Blackhawk yesterday and it reminded me why I sold the two New Vaqueros a few years ago - 1873 type grips/grips frames look awesome but work badly.
So:

1) get an OM dragoon frame (that's what I thought), but:
2) also need the trigger.

Some fitting/filing, but otherwise that is the drill (pun intended)?

Where to get an OM SB grip frame? I've looked about casually and found zip. I appreciate your help.
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