Single Action Grip Frames Explained

I am still confused about the frame of my gun, I have the Super Blackhawk Talo 3.75 in 44. The frame is stamped "New Model Super Blackhawk". For example if I wanted to or a set of Hogue Rubber grips.....what do I order? On Hogues site it says the grips will fit a New Model Blackhawn but doesnt say New Model SUPER Blackhawk. I am confused.

Easy way is go to the 1st page of this thread, scroll down to 11th post by "Caryc". Look at his 3" square, draw you one just like it and lay your grip panel on it....wala, you can see what you have.
Bill

Voodoosan,

The SBHs with barrels lengths of 5 1/2" or less came with the standard XR3-RED 'size' grip frame which is the same as the standard Blackhawk. Therefore the Hogue grips for a New Model Blackhawk are correct for your Talo SBH.

Voodoosan said:

you can almost see into the frame. I would say 4-5mm. I can tell its not normal.

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It sounds like they sent a grip for the XR3 grip frame. That's exactly how much shorter it is, from front to back, as compared to your XR3-RED size grip frame!

Ok I tried Hogue 83000 & 84000 on my Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk 3.75 TALO. Neither one fit. The 83000 shows it fits XR3-RED and various other but NOT a plain no dash XR3 frame. So could my Talo be a KXR3? At this point I am beyond frustrated. Plus when I pulled my grips off there is no designation on the frame. So I have no idea at this point. But I know buying and returning grips is something I am tired of doing.

At this point I think it just has to wear the factory grips.

Voodoosan said:

Ok I tried Hogue 83000 & 84000 on my Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk 3.75 TALO. Neither one fit. The 83000 shows it fits XR3-RED and various other but NOT a plain no dash XR3 frame. So could my Talo be a KXR3? At this point I am beyond frustrated. Plus when I pulled my grips off there is no designation on the frame. So I have no idea at this point. But I know buying and returning grips is something I am tired of doing.

At this point I think it just has to wear the factory grips.

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Did you actually draw a three inch square and place one of your stock Ruger grips in it? Using my drawing below how does your grip panel fit in it?

It looks like the XR3-RED. the frames backstrap has that slight curve and its not straight like in the XR3.

Yes, the XR3-RED is the right grip frame for the Talo SBH. There's no other grip frame except the XR3 size that would be shorter to fit the Hogues. I've heard of this problem before the more I think about it. I wonder if Hogue has a mix up of their grips!

According to their online catalog, the #83000 rubber monogrip should be the correct grip for your grip frame, the XR3-RED size frame. The 84000 on their website is clearly for the Dragoon size grip frame, with round or sq. back trigger guard.

Is there any way possible that the rubber monogrip is not sliding up into place properly??? They can be difficult to install.

OK, you have the XR3-RED grip profile. Evidently you're trying to use those big rubber grips on your gun. I'm sorry, I can't help you with that. All you can do is tell the people at Hogue that you have the XR3-RED profile grip that is the same thing as the regular Blackhawk.

If the grips don't fit then the problem is with Hogue. You are not the first one I've heard of complaining that they can't get those Hogue grips to fit their gun. In fact, it's actually quite a few.

All I can do is wish you luck.

yes I did check to make sure I had them on properly. And thats what I put on was the #83000 and they didnt fit. The package said the Hogue 83000 fits the XR3-RED. So who knows. I just declared defeat and put the original grips back on

Yeah, let Hogue know, if you haven't already. Maybe they can make it right or at least refund you. Sounds like they have old stock for the XR3 grip frames mis-packaged!

Hondo44 said:

Yeah, let Hogue know, if you haven't already. Maybe they can make it right or at least refund you. Sounds like they have old stock for the XR3 grip frames mis-packaged!

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Old stock? Ruger hasn't made the XR3 grip frame for 52 years. I doubt Hogue was making those rubber grips then.

I don't think they made any rubber grips for the new XR3 either.

They did make them in rubber for the pre 1963 XR3 much more recent than 52 years, we used to sell them.
Based on our OP's and other's experience, they may still be using the old (wrong) mould, hence the problem with fit.

And they STILL list regular grips for the 52 yr old XR3 and new XR3:
http://www.hoguestore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=27_702_703

But they don't differentiate between the two: they must drill both locating pin holes, although they still won't properly fit both old and new, as we all know, they're not the same shape!

Voodoosan said:

yes I did check to make sure I had them on properly. And thats what I put on was the #83000 and they didnt fit. The package said the Hogue 83000 fits the XR3-RED. So who knows. I just declared defeat and put the original grips back on

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These same grips are sold by Brownells for $15.90 and here are the instructions from their website:
"Putting this [rubber # 83000] grip on a NM Ruger Blackhawk almost requires 3 hands.

1. It's extremely tight; using 2 credit cards or plastic shim on the sides because the rubber catches on the grip frame and won't allow the frame to slide in. Maybe lubrication might help.

2. The screw anchor at the bottom of the frame scratches the hell out of the anodized aluminum frame. Of course once it's installed you won't see the scratches.

3. On the plus side it makes the revolver easier to control. Recommend only if the above doesn't matter to you."

Hope this helps,

Question for Hondo44 or anyone else, what size grip frame comes on the newer flattop Blackhawk 44spl's?

I've heard a few people say it's the new XR3 like what's on the new Vaqueros but I thought that just the 50th anniversary flattops had them.

LSCG said:

Question for Hondo44 or anyone else, what size grip frame comes on the newer flattop Blackhawk 44spl's?

I've heard a few people say it's the new XR3 like what's on the new Vaqueros but I thought that just the 50th anniversary flattops had them.

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All the new flattops have the new steel XR3 as do the New Vaqueros.

I seached the web and this thread but it's still not clear to me.

- Is my Lipseys Flattop 357/9mm model 5245 gripframe the same as the New Vaquero gripframe?

- Lipseys says my 5245's grip frame is XR-3 and the New Vaquero model 5109 gripframe is "pre-1962 XR-3" are those the same?

Thanks, I'm totally confused. I don't want to send out my gripframe, at this time I want to buy something cheap.

P89DC said:

I seached the web and this thread but it's still not clear to me.

- Is my Lipseys Flattop 357/9mm model 5245 gripframe the same as the New Vaquero gripframe?

- Lipseys says my 5245's grip frame is XR-3 and the New Vaquero model 5109 gripframe is "pre-1962 XR-3" are those the same?

Thanks, I'm totally confused. I don't want to send out my gripframe, at this time I want to buy something cheap.

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All the newly produced flattops have the new steel version of the old XR3 grip frame.

It's the same as the "New Vaquero" grip frame that came out in 2005.

Take a look at the drawings below. Draw yourself a 3 inch square and see how one of your grip panels fits in it. you can also tell the XR3 from the XR3-RED profile because the XR3 has the straight back strap where the XR3-RED profile back straps flair out at the bottom.

All New model XR3 'size' grip frames are either blued steel or stainless steel and they are the same size, and they have different casting numbers on them. When speaking of new models, XR3 only references their size as the same as the old model #XR3. All old model XR3 grip frames are aluminum alloy and their actual casting # is XR3.

Ruger grip frame by model application and casting numbers:

All GRIP FRAME IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS (Founder's Marks) CAST INTO GRIP FRAMES (N/A to Bearcat)
Note: for convenience, NM frames in the two most common sizes are often referred to as XR3 'SIZE' or XR3-RED 'SIZE' but they have their own Casting numbers.

BLUE STEEL and ALLOY NM:
Small steel (OM #XR3 size) 1/8" closer to trigger guard than XR3-RED size, (cut for indexing pawl system, no extensions into main frame & only 7/16" thick) = A (in a square), no other marking observed; w & w/o lock. New Vaq w/o lock has a 512 prefix serial #
Large steel (OM #XR3-RED size): Early = A (in a square) XR-3 (that's XR dash 3), Late = A & T in separate 1/8" circles
Large alloy (OM #XR3-RED size) w/o lock: Early = NXR3-RED, Late = XRN-3RED. With lock = XR & L
Short steel 'Vaquerito' .32s = A (in a square) XR-3. If ordered as a separate part = 302 A (in a square) 3/16" shorter in length than the XR3 and XR3-RED sizes
SBH = No marking on Dragoon frames (1/4" longer than standard grip). Large round guard steel frames supplied on all barrel lengths less than 7 ½" (Old Model #XR3-RED size) = same as Large steel above marking
Birdshead** = # in circle, MR00307, A in circle

STAINLESS NM:
Small, (XR3 size) 1/8" shorter horizontally behind the trigger guard (cut for indexing pawl system, no extensions into main frame & only 7/16" thick = K (in circle); w & w/o lock
Large (OM #XR3-RED size): Earliest = KXR-3*, Next = KXR-3 with a separate N, Late = K (in circle) XRN-3, most current = no markings
Short 'Vaquerito' .32s = KXR-3* 3/16" shorter in length than the XR3 and XR3-RED sizes
SBH Hunter = KHRN 3 (Dragoon length but with a round trigger guard)
SBH = No marking on Dragoon frames (1/4" longer than standard grip). Large round guard steel frames supplied on all barrel lengths less than 7 ½" (Old Model #XR3-RED size) = same as Large above marking
Birdshead** = # K in circle, MR00307

BLUE STEEL and ALLOY OM:
Small alloy = XR3, original style to 1962, 1/8" closer to trigger guard than large size
Large alloy = XR3-RED, (part # SS3), new style in 1962 to 1972, also used on Pre 1985 Old Army alloy w/narrow trig slot, and on Hawkeye alloy w/wide trigger slot
SBH = steel dragoon, sq back trigger guard (1/4" longer than standard grip) no marking; Early 'long frame' 5/32" longer than later dragoon marked with C (only 300 made)
Old Army steel (OM XR3-RED size) = XRN-3 beginning 1985 with wide trigger slot and is the only OM GF in carbon steel other than the SBH.

STAINLESS OM
Old Army only: Large (OM XR3-RED size) = KXR-3*

*Note: same # KXR-3 used on two different frames: earliest NM SS XR3-RED size and OM SS Old Army XR3-RED size, because based on how they are machined, they can be used for either application.
**Birdsheads supplied on New Vaqueros cut for free spin pawl system and have no extensions into main frame, but are interchangeable to all models.

BRASS FRAMES OM only:
Marked "MR-3DB." = Super Blackhawk Brass "Dragoon" style with square back trigger guard. Same dimensions as 1959 Super Blackhawk. Initially for Super Blackhawks only, then shipped on various Blackhawks, majority in 1972.

"A way to check to see if a Super Blackhawk left the factory with a brass grip frame or a steel grip frame if you are convinced the gun has the original factory blue finish. Guns made with a steel grip frame had the frame attached to the gun and match polished to the sides of the cylinder frame before going into the bluing tanks. So when the grip frame is off, there will be large swaths of "white" metal on the underside of the frame and grip frame. If the gun was originally made with a brass grip frame, then the underside of the cylinder frame will be blue." Chet15

P89DC said:

Thanks, Cary! I know about the square but there's so much over-lapping nomenclature I wanted to be sure. With your explaination the listing are clear now. Except what's with XR3 blued vs stainless?

I think I'll buy the Eagle grips, they're not finished and require final fitting.

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I've been making grips for around 12 years now and I've never asked a customer what is marked on their grip frame. Ruger just puts that crap there to confuse people. On your question above in RED, the difference is that one is stainless and one is blued. Both are steel.

Ruger came out with the first XR3 plow handle style grip frame on their Single Six in 1953. It was an aluminum frame and was used until 1963 when the redesigned it into the larger XR3-RED grip frame.

The XR3-RED profile grip is still used today on the Blackhawk and Single Six. In 2005 when Ruger came out with the "New Vaquero", they brought back the smaller XR3 grip frame only they made it in carbon steel and stainless steel this time. There is also one other major difference. The made it 7/16" in width to try and emulate the Colt grip frames. All Ruger's other plow handle grip frames are still 1/2" in width. As far as I know Ruger has used the new XR3 grip frames on all the flattops it produces.

If your grip frame is 7/16" in width it is most definitely the new XR3. I hope this clears it up for you.