Legal question... pistol to rifle?

Help Support Ruger Forum:

Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
10,430
Location
Greenville, SC: USA
Back when I was young and first on the gun internet I knew all this stuff... now as age kind of grinds away at me I'm not so sure.

Can one legally convert a pistol to a rifle?

Example... say you have one of these AR-15 pistols with short barrel and brace or even just the tube on the back... still legal with out a tax stamp right now.....

can you put a 16" or longer barrel on it and a regular stock and not have to jump through NFA hoops?

Seems simple to me... but who knows these days?
 

9x19

Hunter
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
2,558
Location
Texas
Yes... and you can go back and forth between pistol and rifle as much as you like.

Thompson Center's court battle, way back, helped set that precedent.

Without filing paperwork, Rifles can only be Rifles.
 

P89DC

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
227
You'll be doing yourself a favor to understand what a short barrel rifle is and how to avoid making one without the proper paperwork.
 

Snake45

Hawkeye
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
9,121
Location
+4020
9x19 said:
Yes... and you can go back and forth between pistol and rifle as much as you like.
True, as long as you start with a pistol. If you start with a rifle, it can never be made into a pistol without the $200 SBR tax stamp deal.
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
9,934
Location
missouri
Since many(most) AR lowers SHOULD have been listed as "other"(neither pistol or rifle) it's pretty hard to prove which way the lower was "built" originally. Maybe I'm being too cautious but I have 3 or 4 lowers that were bought and logged on the 4473 as "pistol"(and identified on the serial number) so there's no question as to legality of having unmounted pistol uppers and "other" lowers lying on the same shelf.
IMHO, everyone should have a a lower purchased as "other" or a DIY 80% lower in their gun locker if they have a pistol upper in their possession.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
10,430
Location
Greenville, SC: USA
Thanks,,, that is what I remembered... what I'm actually messing with is the TNW firearms ASP tactical pistol, not really an AR... but close. I've ordered one of these in 357 Sig.... but also a conversion "rifle kit" to 9mm. The 'kit' is only a 16" barrel and bolt.... So the pistol would really need a regular AR adjustable stock to fully convert it to a rifle. It comes with a 'short' brace. TNW will sell you an extra rifle barrel but not a pistol barrel alone... I guess they are just making sure they don't get in trouble if someone does something illegal.
 

bentblade

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
326
Blume you better check your state laws for that answer, also the Feds and states don't always agree.
Some of these answers would get you in big trouble in my state.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
10,430
Location
Greenville, SC: USA
S.C. has some squirelly gun laws but most have to do with concealed carry.... I'm reasonably sure I'm fine with my original question...

I've even passed on all my 10 round magazines to folks in those 'other' states.
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
9,934
Location
missouri
Also, you need to verify the description of "AOW". I can't remember if the overall length has something to do with legality or if it's just part of MO's game regulations but we have to stay under 26" in total length for some reason.
Basically, you can't put a carbine upper on a pistol lower and call it a pistol for hunting purposes in MO.
 

pete44ru

Hunter
Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
2,176
Location
Rhode Island
.

From the horse's mouth:

UkyPg6Sh.jpg

z2jY9Ghh.jpg
 

9x19

Hunter
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
2,558
Location
Texas
Except the OP doesn't have an Uzi... and it is no longer 2007

This is (more recently) also from the horse's mouth:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-pistol-rifle-without-registering-firearm

Text of the ATF Ruling (2011-4) (made 4 years after your letter):

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2011-4-pistols-configured-rifles-rifles-configured-pistols/download
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
10,430
Location
Greenville, SC: USA
well it came in... I've not really ever handled an AR style pistol before... just saw them on the internet.... this thing is bigger than I expected... which since I have the rifle should not have surprised me... 10.25" barrel and the 'brace' just does not adjust. 24.75" total length. There is a long explanation of why it took almost 3 months to get it but it is mostly my fault... has been sitting at my ffl since November 25th! Now if my damn gun club will open back up.. seems the BOD is afraid my going out there all alone and shooting will give me the chinese cooties...
 

9x19

Hunter
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
2,558
Location
Texas
Very cool!

The model holding it may not be up to SHOT show standards, but the pistol looks good. :D
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
10,430
Location
Greenville, SC: USA
Oh and I thought I mentioned this somewhere else (if so forgive me) there is no way to indicate on this gun that it was originally issued and delivered as a pistol and not modified .... the imprinted label on the receiver is the same as on the rifle except a different serial number.... I sent TNW an email about this and they assured me that when some one inquired that they have it listed as a pistol in their files and it is also the same at my FFL where it was transferred ..... my only question which I probably won't ask them is, "and where will I be waiting while the LEO's check on all this and how long will it take them?"

Are other AR style pistols the same way?
 

NikA

Buckeye
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Messages
1,810
Location
Yrisarri, NM- high in the Manzanos
The following is my understanding and opinion about AR pistols, and not necessarily represent the current situation.

When I first put together an AR pistol, having anything other than a padded buffer tube on the back of the receiver was a big no-no. There were various opinion letters that once configured to a rifle, the gun could not be reconfigured to a pistol.

Some time later, basic pistol braces came out. They were definitely not stocks and did not look comfortable to shoulder. The opinion letters on these was that they were legal, which made sense in the context of "not designed to be fired from the shoulder".

Since then, pistol braces have basically become more and more like stocks, and they are frankly a workaround to avoid SBR registration. I expect at some point, someone at the ATF will look at the current generation of braces and determine they are effectively stocks. What happens from there is unknown, but it's for sure not good. Momentum is on the side of additional regulation.

As a result, any AR pistols I might own retain the original smooth padded buffer tube that was definitively legal before the whole brace thing started. As for evidence of configuration, a dated picture is how I handled this way back when I got started. There's a paper trail on any FFL transfers and the police should have basic access to that trail from the manufacturer.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
10,430
Location
Greenville, SC: USA
I guess if they went back to just the padded or even bare buffer tube with a short barrel that would be one solution but I suspect they would not stop there. My second wonder is if they just addressed these that shoot rifle caliber rounds....
 

9x19

Hunter
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
2,558
Location
Texas
The manufacturer has to record each receiver (by serial number) shipped. For some companies, it might be shipped as a rifle, or as a pistol, or as a (bare) receiver.

If you didn't buy it retail, then there is no way for you to know how it was shipped.

There are exceptions, of course: Ruger doesn't sell 10/22 receivers, so unless it's marked "Charger" it shipped as a rifle.

Ruger also sells AR-556 receivers in all three categories, so...

If it concerns you, take a picture of the receipt that shows you purchased a pistol (with serial number) and keep it in your phone.
 
Top