two distinct groups

My 581 mini 14 shoots two distinct groups. Shooting at 75 yds, the first 3 shots had one in the center ring and two up and right 4". Repeated the 3 shot group and same thing. And a third. I did not check or record if it was the first shot each time in the center ring, but think that is most likely the case. Figured to remove some wood and free float the bbl, but when I took it down i see a metal liner in the bbl channel. Any proven techniques to fix this.

Just me, I want to see each bullet impact and know which was 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Before making heads or tails of groups and guessing what if anything can be fixed. If I cannot see each shot I go to target and look.
5 shot groups, fired from bench with forend supported, rear resting on a sand bag. Wait about 2 minutes between shots.
Big kicking Mags I use 3 shot groups.
Sometimes nothing may help. Example with recent testing, Weatherby Mark V 7mm WBY. 26 inch med/heavy SS bbl newer, unknown bbl maker or gunsmith who did the work. Also unknown how many rounds, but looks nearly new. Glass bedded action and under chamber, rest free floated.
4, 3 shot groups 3/4 to 1 inch. Every group shots 1 and 2 were touching or closer. Every group shot #3 to the right. I even went to 5 mins between shots with same results. This was at 100 yds and with 3 different bullets.

I plan on checking where each round is striking next range trip, but my range is 3 hrs away and was hoping there was some magic i could do in the mean time. thanks

I read an old post about adding a thin piece of rubber between the bbl and stock. that poster ended up having to drill and JB weld the rifle to get it back together. Can someone expound on a better method to do this, a pic maybe.

Could be a difference based on the first round being chambered manually vs the self cycling chambering.

Mobuck said:

Could be a difference based on the first round being chambered manually vs the self cycling chambering.

Click to expand...

I think Mobuck has it here. I was going to say this as well. I noticed a difference in my old pencil barreled mid 1980's mini.

Back to the range and it appears you guys were right. The manually loaded rounds were spot on, the auto cycling chambered ones were 4" high and right. I tried it first shot, then followed up with 3 shots which all went high and right. Then I let it cool down and fired first shot, ok, second shot auto cycled was high, manually loaded third shot and it grouped with the first shot. NOW, what to do with it?

Unfortunately, I don't have a solution.
It's been too long since I owned a Mini so I don't remember how the bolt lock functions. Just a suggestion that you might try locking the bolt open, inserting the magazine, and releasing the bolt from lock. Might or might not have any effect.

thanks, that's how I was doing what I called the manually loaded rounds. Anyone else that has dealt with this issue?

What I am hearing is the bullet must be damaged when seated automatically? The chamber holds it the same way due to dimensions I would think?
gramps

There is no way to duplicate the speed and force of the semi-auto cycling by hand.
The difference could be related to how the bolt goes into battery or any number of issues related to all the lifting of the round in the magazine, how fast the bolt is moving when the cartridge is being chambered, or even how the action handles the cycling stress. Maybe try several types of ammo to see if one type/brand offers an improvement.
A customer brought me a rifle to zero with a new scope. After a frustrating range session, I got a zero that was sort of OK and called the guy to pick up his rifle. When I asked him about the inconsistent/random fliers, he just shrugged and said "For years I just thought it was me jerking the trigger". I still have no idea what that problem was.

Seems pretty obvious that it is hand chambering the first round... seems like back when I shot my Minis they did the same thing...

Proves the importance of seeing where each shot went into the paper. Not just looking at the finished group.

I have a Mini 14 that does not do that.

I have a Garand that does this in a very predictable manner. In the Garand, the first shot out of the clip is always low left (about 4 inches low left at 100 yards), the rest of the clip groups reliably into two inches. Never found the cause. I hold high right for the first shot, and then at 6:00 for the rest, and I can get a decent group.

I read that Ruger had (and worked to resolve) this problem when they first introduced the Mini 14. I don't what they did to fix it; I wished I knew because then maybe it would be something I could address in the Garand. I've also read that more than a few folks have had this issue on the Garands, and others have not. I have an M1A Springfield; it does not have this issue.

I guess you could let the gun auto-chamber a round, and then instead of firing the gun, eject that round and look at the bullet to see if it shows damage.

I added a muzzle brake from Cheaper Than Dirt on 2 Minis. One blue one stainless. Both Ranches. Both improved greatly. I have always thought that the extra weight on muzzle slowed or changed barrel whip. They do have slender barrels.