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 Post subject: Spare mag orientation
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:11 pm 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 305
Hi Folk’s, here’s my scenario: I’m left handed & carry OWB. I carry my spare mag pouch on my weak (Right) side. Now my question: With the mag in the pouch should’nt the ammo be facing to my rear so when I grab the mag for a reload the rounds will be facing forward for a reload. Otherwise I have to rotate the mag if it’s in the mag holster rounds forward? I ask this because I’m told training classes say either hand, spare mag on weak side in mag holster rounds facing forward. Doesn’t make sense when seconds might count. Thanks for any input-Dave


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:32 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:11 pm
Posts: 10049
Location: missouri
I carry spare mags on the non-shooting hand side with bullets to the front. That way, when I pull the mag it is properly oriented to go directly into the magwell.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:42 pm 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 305
I guess I should add the mag is stored upside down, so I grab the mag by the baseplate from a kydex mag holster. If I have the rounds forward, when I go to reload the mag is backwards-Dave


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:00 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:01 am
Posts: 4579
Location: GA
Maybe these will help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2CjwfwAYmY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2B3ZxOtKTM

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:12 am 
Hawkeye
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Location: Greenville, SC: USA
If the mag is upside down I can't help... but I will explain how I've been trained... First I'm right handed... mag is kept on my weak left side pointed down in a pouch and the rounds face forward.... this has been debated in the past as to which way the mag should face... but here is the right answer... for your way or mine....

when you reach for the magazine you want the rounds so that your index finger goes on the front of the top round... this is called "indexing the round" this is so that you can feel if the top round is seated right.... it is not unusual for that top round over time to slip a little and you want it right before trying to insert it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:30 am 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 305
Thanks Mike for the videos, now I get it. And Thanks Blume, I have my spare oriented the same way as that instructer-just facing the wrong way. Never knew about the indexing thing until I watched that older guy show it in detail in the vid. This Old Man has some learning to do. Thank’s Folk’s-Dave


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:05 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 7755
Location: On the beach and in the hills
Never really thought about it I just do what feels right. I also carry OWB and am left handed. But I carry cross. My spare mags are on the strongside (left) upside down, bullets facing the rear. I just reach across, pull out the mag with my index finger along the front of the mag.

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"Go low, go slow, and preferably in the dark." The old Sarge (he was like 25)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:59 am 
Hawkeye
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Location: Greenville, SC: USA
Friends and I were out at a restaurant / bar about a year ago and we started discussing carrying a gun and training and I mentioned carrying a spare magazine and how I finally got the part they were trying to drill into me about how and why to carry that magazine... so I reached back and removed my spare magazine the way one should and the dern top round was partially extended.. which also demonstrated why you want your index finger so you can feel and reseat if needed that top round, especially if you are in the dark.

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"Don't ever think the reason I'm peaceful
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:55 am 
Hunter
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Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:04 pm
Posts: 2350
Location: Texas
To develop proper muscle memory, you need to repeat a task 2500 times. Here is a drill that can be done literally "at ease" and at pretty much zero cost.

This is some of the "homework" that I give my students:
You will need the following:

1) an EMPTY weapon
2) several EMPTY magazines (for that gun)
3) a towel of sufficient size to cover your lap
4) a comfortable place to sit.....preferably with your feet up.

With the towel covering your lap, dump all the mags onto the towel.....yes dump, you want the mags all jumbled around.
Now, with the EMPTY weapon in your strong hand, use your support hand to locate any one of the mags on your lap, orient it into the proper position (bullet side should face your index finger) and insert it into the mag-well, seating it as if you were loading the gun. Feel free to watch yourself doing each step.
Go no faster than is needed to do each step correctly.
Next, using the mag release, drop that mag back onto your towel and find another mag, locate, orient, insert. Keep repeating the process until you can do it without looking.....then keep doing it. The object here is to do this without looking or even paying much attention. Watch TV, carry on a conversation, etc. but keep practicing.
Wanna step up your game and give your sense of touch a little bit more of a workout? When you can do this drill properly 50 times in a row, replace the towel with a paper sack or a small box. Now your doing the drill without even having peripheral vision to help you out.
But your not done yet. This drill simply trains you hands to identify the magazine and properly orient it for loading.
The next step is for you to decide where and how you will be carrying your extra mag(s) and then practice taking them from that chosen location and getting them into your gun. Very similar to the aforementioned drill, but necessarily more involved due to the location of the carrier and holster you choose.
One thing to remember, it is not practice that makes perfect......it's perfect practice that makes perfect......don't fudge on any of this.
Go slow at first. Speed will come with practice.
With enough repetitions you will be able to do this in the dark with a bear chasing you during a hurricane............ 8)

Here's what "being one with your equipment" looks like:

https://youtu.be/Hgdq1FBYTUE

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:38 pm 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 16432
Location: Greenville, SC: USA
Sounds good but I think one really needs to practice a full emergency reload... which would be the slide locked back, dropping the empty mag and then inserting the new loaded one and either sling shot the slide or releasing the slide stop....

Now if you really want to get in the groove, practice a "feed way stoppage" where there is still a round in the chamber and another round is jammed up behind it.... try clearing and loading a new mag with one of those in less than 7 seconds..

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CSIA #599 DCS

"Don't ever think the reason I'm peaceful
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"I'd rather Die while I'm Living than live while I'm Dead"... Jimmy Buffet


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:56 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 7755
Location: On the beach and in the hills
blume357 wrote:
Sounds good but I think one really needs to practice a full emergency reload... which would be the slide locked back, dropping the empty mag and then inserting the new loaded one and either sling shot the slide or releasing the slide stop....

Now if you really want to get in the groove, practice a "feed way stoppage" where there is still a round in the chamber and another round is jammed up behind it.... try clearing and loading a new mag with one of those in less than 7 seconds..


Had something similar happen with an M16. I just dropped it and used a 1911. Can't say I've every had a double feed jam on a 1911. I've had bad/slow primers. FTF's, usually due to magazine issues but sometimes a particular JHP design wasn't liked by one 1911 or another.

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Jeepnik "AKA Old Eyes"
"Every man should have at least one good rifle, and know how to use it." Dad
"Go low, go slow, and preferably in the dark." The old Sarge (he was like 25)
The man who says a thing can't be done is usually interrupted by the man who is doing it.
"Freedom is never more than a generation from extinction." Ronald Reagan


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:35 am 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 16432
Location: Greenville, SC: USA
What I discribed is called a #3 malfunction by Front Sight and is the one part of the testing I can not pass.... it seems simple until you try it in a timed environment.....

You set up the jam, then at the signal you raise the pistol from the ready, aim and pull the trigger and of course nothing happens you then tilt the pistol to determine the problem... pull the slide back and lock it, drop the magazine, rack the slide three times, insert a fully loaded magazine, rack the slide to load a round and return to the aimed position. ... sounds simple until you try to do it in less than 6.5 seconds...

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Blume
CSIA #599 DCS

"Don't ever think the reason I'm peaceful
is because I don't know how to be violent."

"I'd rather Die while I'm Living than live while I'm Dead"... Jimmy Buffet


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:19 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 16447
Location: Woodbury, Tn
My mags are with the bullet facing to the rear, because when I grab and reload that is how it comes up the the mag well properly for me! Don’t try to change me. I have done it for years, I don’t plan on changing!
gramps

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:02 am 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 16432
Location: Greenville, SC: USA
No need to change if that is how you like it and are used to....

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Blume
CSIA #599 DCS

"Don't ever think the reason I'm peaceful
is because I don't know how to be violent."

"I'd rather Die while I'm Living than live while I'm Dead"... Jimmy Buffet


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:08 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:14 pm
Posts: 1449
Location: Idaho
We trained that is really does not matter on spare mag. orientation, each new shooter was to try both ways and stick with what worked best for them.
When doing gun malfunction drills, have powder/primmer empty handloads or better yet buy dummies.
I doubt many practice gun stoppages, but if you carry for SD you really should learn how to get the gun back into action if or when that happens.
Don't be the guy who has a stoppage and raises his hand for help.


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