Ruger 22 A54 framed auto pistol magazine question, UPDATED

So about 25 years ago I bought 3 magazines that appeared to be for a Ruger 22 auto pistol with the A54 grip frame. The magazines have the loading button on the right side of the magazine and only has the button slot on the right side. The 3 magazines will not go all the way into a A54 grip framed pistol. The square part of the magazine base is 1/8 inch longer than the magazines that do fit the A 54 frame pistols. On all my correct magazines you can see were it appears the Ruger factory modified the mold to cast a shorter square part of the magazine. All the magazines I am talking about have the chromed Zamak bases that are crimped on to the steel magazine body. I have tried inserting these into my oldest A54 framed pistols a 1954 model and a 1955 model and they will not go in the pistol the last 1/4 inch. I could take a Dremel tool and cut / grind off the extra 1/8 inch if I had to, but I have plenty of original and factory replacement A54 magazines so I won't be doing that. I even have a Magazine that is pictured on page 23 on the far left in Chad Hiddleson's wonderful book that has the short square magazine base that does fit my A54 framed pistols. With the exception of the chrome base, they look the same as my other correct magazines. The odd ball Magazines appear to have been used and some point in time ? One more so than the other two. The man I bought them from said they were for a Ruger 22 auto pistol. I could wait and ask Bill Ruger, but I am in no hurry to do that.

EvilDr235

A picture would help with a side by side to a "correct" one,BUT that being said if they are that much longer they will NOT work, as the catch is at the bottom??? never had to modify one ever,to make a mag fit............ interesting as any of the other makers such as AMT, and their old Lightning, the mags are the same length.....not any others that I can think of as Ruger was the "first"??? :?

there were some mags made in the Phillipines years later, came in white boxes, similar to the Rugers BUT they were flimsier made, bent real easy did not take well to being "loaded" for an extended period of time,,,who knows maybe they made some "fubar" the bottom piece TOO long???? again, a picture saves a thousand words
8) :roll: :wink:

So, is it possible the mags you purchased, that you were told would work , are not for a Ruger pistol at all??? I have been in Rugers for a lot of years and have never encountered the problem of which you speak. As stated earlier, photos would be great. You speak as though you are familiar with Rugers. Like the earlier post, I am at a loss on this one, too!

I have owned and collected Ruger 22 auto pistols for 40 years. I have many factory original magazines and aftermarket ones including AMT Lightnings. When you lay the two magazines in question side by side they look the same except for the longer base on the odd ball ones. On all my factory magazines that fit properly you can see where it looks like about a 1/8 inch was ground away before they were plated. This is the square base with the four little ribs for gripping the magazine to remove it. As far as the aftermarket magazines in the white boxes, I remember them as being of very poor quality and never bought any. If I remember right the boxes just said Ruger in red letters on them. I did have several of the aftermarket 14 round plastic magazines, but they never worked properly and I got rid of them. I do have 2 stainless 12 round magazines from the same company that I believe was Ramline. They do work well. I will see if my grand daughter will add some pictures to this mystery. I have noticed in my parts collection that I have magazine latches that are different also. Mark 1 vs Mark 2 ?

EvilDr235

Interesting, indeed! Maybe ,defective, out of tolerance that made it past the inspectors on an early Monday morning or late Friday evening. I am like you ,in that I also have a full sweat of magazines for the A54-A100 frames ,both MK1 and Std until they were DCd. Photos would /could prove interesting.

Do the mags accept the normal 9 rounds easily or hard to insert last few rounds?

I don't think they were factory mistakes. If you look at the normal magazine you can make out the area that was ground off or the mold was shortened to produce the shorter part. That area is on the magazine base front edge. One of the odd magazines has been used at some point. All three magazines have handling marks, but two appear unused. So I just measured the bottom of the odd ball mags and one of several correct ones and I got a average of 0.065 difference between the bases, not a 0.125 as I originally said after using a wooden ruler with my old eyes. Far a loading the magazine, it is the same as loading the correct magazines, hard as heck for my old hands. In my A100 framed pistols I use MK2 magazines as they are easier to load than Standard or MK1 magazines. I will get some pictures on here tonight or tomorrow.

EvilDr235

Just throwing this out there. High Standard mags?

the first ones were indeed from High Standard, recut and the bottom piece placed to make it work.....Chad pointed out in his Encyclopedia with pictures to "see" the small notch at the bottom of the mag body...in the OP s case he is saying the bottom piece is too long??? and still no pictures to show us this, oh well 8) :roll: :wink:

" and so it goes...." RIP Will Terry

First, I do not know how to post pictures here and I have not heard from my grand daughter as of yet who does pictures for me. As far as High Standard magazines, I have seen several on eBay that look just like Ruger A54 magazines except for the base. I sent a PM to chet15 about the odd magazines, but have yet to get a reply. I am going to offer one magazine to rugerguy to inspect and keep for his collection if he will post pictures of it with his thoughts on it's origin and giving me credit for the find. I want nothing for the magazine and will pay for the postage for shipping. If rugerguy is not interested in this offer, I will offer another member a chance to have a odd ball Ruger related part to their collection. If it is a rare prototype or whatever magazine, I will keep one of the remaining two and sell the third one or trade for something I can use.

EvilDr235

I thank you for the offer but my wife has mags of all the early issues, so I really do not "need" one, but you can PM me for info whatever, and be more than glad to help you out..here is a picture I had taken some time ago of the mags, in general for the RST/ Mark I and II.........A-54 through A-100 and then the MK II and the last one is their "offer" for the replacement of the early A-100 standard auto and Mark I





and a shot of the early bases.....



hope this helps........

I, like Dan have a fair selection of mags & such from the earliest to current. If he doesn't want to accept your offer, I can see what I can do.
Just a polite offer.

Does anybody here get on Facebook ? I belong to 5 groups there for my other 2 hobbies old cast iron air cooled engines and old tools. I can post pictures there along with a hand drawn picture of what I am talking about. I can post pictures there for the general public or in a private message. contender I will consider your offer also. rugerguy, my odd ball magazines look just like yours in the lower picture, except on mine the bottom ribbed square that you grasp to remove the magazine is about a 1/16th of a inch longer. I have owned many Ruger 22 auto pistols and magazines for the last 40 years along with plenty of factory replacement parts and have seen and owned many aftermarket things also, but these mags have me stumped. They are made just as good as the factory A54 mags. Well my granddaughter came over and we put some pictures on Facebook. We could not figure out how to put them on this site.

EvilDr235

Regarding Evildr's post offering one of the "odd" mags to someone. If there are no takers, I would be very interested in having one. I have collected Ruger pistols for many, many years and I would love to add it to my collection. Having read the various posts and even responding myself, I can say I am still stumped.

Regards

About a hour ago I sent rugerguy 3 different pictures of the magazines in question. As I had said, one of the magazines appears to have been used a lot. The other two it is kind of hard to tell if they were used or not. They have lots of handling marks that may just be from banging in to each other over the years. Who knows how many gun shows they were at before I got them. rugerguy has first shot at the free mag, if he doesn't want it, contender has second shot at it and kevin is third in line. My opinion on it is, it was a early prototype and the design was changed. As I have said several times, the ribbed edge of the correct A54 magazine appears the mold was modified to make the ribbed area shorter. the modified area is very clear on original A54 and A100 magazines that have the pot metal Zamac ? base.

EvilDr235

Looking forward to the pics.

I sent rugerguy a email from my mailbox, I have no way to post them here. contender if you send me your email address in a PM, I will send you the same pictures I sent rugerguy.

EvilDr235

I'm starting a new post to go along with Evildoctor235's earlier post to maybe help a few others, and maybe see what else we can discover.

He had some early .22 magazines that wouldn't go all the way into his gun. (See his post about that.)
He was kind enough to send me one to check out. His thoughts were possible counterfeit, or maybe a prototype magazine. He studied Chad's book that has a picture of several Std Auto & MK magazines.
The mags in questions were of the early Std & MKI type,, that hold 9 rounds, and have an unmarked silver plated base. They looked "normal" in general,, but why they wouldn't fit was a puzzle.
So when he sent me one of the mags in question, I took it & studied it. I then took out my earliest Red Eagle, (serial under 3000) and the mag in question, went right in & fit fine. I took out a 5 digit Red Eagle, and the mag did the same thing to me as it had been doing for him. Stopping about 1/4" or so from fully inserting.
That made things get interesting.
I started CLOSELY (under magnification) my (2) Red Eagle mags, as well as the one he sent me. I put a piece of tape on his mag to make sure I didn't mix it up with mine. I used my calipers to measure as many things as I could think of. I disassembled all 3 mags & made measurements. Only a slight difference in the followers was found.
I also tried to swap my (2) Red Eagle mags around. They both fit fine in my 5 digit,, but only one fit in my low 4 digit. It did the exact same thing as the one he sent me did. Stopping before seating.
And under my close examination, I noticed the follower button on both my mags kinda "canted" outward at the top edge,, while the one he sent sat flat. The only semi-obvious difference.

Back to the books.

I studied Chad's book a bit more,, reading about the early Red Eagles & some of the internal changes made during the very early production. (Pages 24-26 in Chad's book on Ruger Semi-auto's.) While the book doesn't address the issue directly,, there is info on some of the mechanical changes to the bolt, & firing pin etc that got me to studying things closer.
Next,,, I took the grips off both my Red Eagles,, and tried to see if I could discover any differences. Nothing I could fine with a light & my eyes.

I went back & disassembled & swapped followers & mag bodies etc around, and at one point, I got another hang-up, but then it went away.

Conclusion?

I think that during the very early years,, as Bill was developing the Std Auto, he had to "tweak" the gun to get the reliability necessary. And quite possibly, the very early frames or some other internal spot got a slight modification, that allowed the mags to work as they should. It just hasn't been closely noted. (Well, at least as far as I can uncover.)
Earlier guns, shipped & all, didn't get the internal tweaking that is obviously minor. And since it's LONG AGO knowledge that has passed with those that were there,, we may never know exactly. But the very early magazines, combined with the slight difference inside the frame can cause the early magazines to not fit in later guns.
And since most folks who have the very early Red Eagles don't shoot them much,, OR,, do not have different magazines, nobody discussed this before.

Anybody have any other thoughts, similar issues, or ANYTHING else to add?