Downside of an empty chamber

[Snake Pleskin]

Nope, never.
If you ask a small group of people they will say they never had to defend themselves in a life or death situation.
So are we to conclude that people never need to defend their life? Hell no! We prepare ourselves for the rare times when we DO need to defend our lives.



The criminal sets the time of the attack. Yes you may notice something suspicious but you can't assume you will always be able to tell someone is about to pull a gun on you.
Even if you do notice someone acting suspicious do you draw your gun at the first sign he's acting strange? No the criminal will (with rare exceptions) be able to draw his weapon before you.

There is no perfect scenario, so the best we can do is be vigilante & aware, and if in doubt assume the worse and leave the area if possible. I also train, but put emphasis on extracting myself from the situation. You can train daily in everything you do, by practicing situational awareness when shopping, out and about, taking a walk etc etc. The old Cooper methods of Colors comes to mind. If you are in a condition Yellow, that is good and when it appears that it may go Orange, time to leave, not wait until it goes Red! That being said, when I decide I need to leave, I have my hand in a pocket on my 649 J frame the entire time, just in case. I do not have to take it out to use it etc, It works just fine from inside the pocket. Surprise is good. Everyone must do what they think is best, but thinking you will always prevail in court is not a good plan. IMHO

 

[Selena]

There is no perfect scenario, so the best we can do is be vigilante & aware, and if in doubt assume the worse and leave the area if possible. I also train, but put emphasis on extracting myself from the situation. You can train daily in everything you do, by practicing situational awareness when shopping, out and about, taking a walk etc etc. The old Cooper methods of Colors comes to mind. If you are in a condition Yellow, that is good and when it appears that it may go Orange, time to leave, not wait until it goes Red! That being said, when I decide I need to leave, I have my hand in a pocket on my 649 J frame the entire time, just in case. I do not have to take it out to use it etc, It works just fine from inside the pocket. Surprise is good. Everyone must do what they think is best, but thinking you will always prevail in court is not a good plan. IMHO

Trouble is... if you are in that situation if you are fighting your attacker and the courts you are going to die. No matter what you do you will have a chance in court. Unless you are dead... if you are dead the court is just a tad irrelevant.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Trouble is... if you are in that situation if you are fighting your attacker and the courts you are going to die. No matter what you do you will have a chance in court. Unless you are dead... if you are dead the court is just a tad irrelevant.

I agree if you are dead the court is irrelevant, but if you live, and are convicted, and in a few months you will probably wish that you were dead! There are far worse things than dying, and incarceration is one of them. IMHO. In a previous life time, in Europe, I spent 10 days waiting to be "picked up" by our people. It was not something I would want to experience again.

 

[Biggfoot44]

How often does someone find themselves needing a gun in hand Right Now , and are not able to ? Generally Once .

Hypothetically , if you actually feel that your area , your habits , your awareness , etc , you won't need a gun , just don't carry a gun . Leave it at home , until something serious changes , with anticipated public breakdown , think major natural disasters , preannoumced civil disturbance , etc .

It's a not uncommon attitude , just own it and go with it .

IF instead , you choose to be prepared for UNexpected critical Situiation , it will be potentially , even likely sudden and imeadate . It's not an uncommon attitude , embrace it and own it .

Gain & maintain proficiency , endeavor to not shoot yourself in the foot.

Don't care for 1911's ? Not a problem ! Plenty of other effective options in .45acp using DA/ SA platform . Or Revolver in ctg of comparitible gravitas .

But half @$$ half measures of carrying unloaded gun , accomplishes neither .

 

[Selena]

I agree if you are dead the court is irrelevant, but if you live, and are convicted, and in a few months you will probably wish that you were dead! There are far worse things than dying, and incarceration is one of them. IMHO. In a previous life time, in Europe, I spent 10 days waiting to be "picked up" by our people. It was not something I would want to experience again.

And when I was a child in Chicago I was pushed down on a pile of garbage and raped. No court is going to make me consider having that happen again.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

How often does someone find themselves needing a gun in hand Right Now , and are not able to ? Generally Once .

Hypothetically , if you actually feel that your area , your habits , your awareness , etc , you won't need a gun , just don't carry a gun . Leave it at home , until something serious changes , with anticipated public breakdown , think major natural disasters , preannoumced civil disturbance , etc .

It's a not uncommon attitude , just own it and go with it .

IF instead , you choose to be prepared for UNexpected critical Situiation , it will be potentially , even likely sudden and imeadate . It's not an uncommon attitude , embrace it and own it .

Gain & maintain proficiency , endeavor to not shoot yourself in the foot.

Don't care for 1911's ? Not a problem ! Plenty of other effective options in .45acp using DA/ SA platform . Or Revolver in ctg of comparitible gravitas .

But half @$$ half measures of carrying unloaded gun , accomplishes neither .

I believe that there is not much point in carrying an unloaded firearm, and if there is no round in the chamber it is "unloaded" because you can not count on being able to rack the slide etc and get it ready in time to do you any good. IMHO. I believe a round should be in the chamber, and if so equipped , safety on. There are many firearms that give you more safety features & therefore peace of mind, if you are so inclined. There are many solid, capable DA autos like SIG 226/220 and smaller versions, that provide all the safety features you could want ,yet are very capable arms, capable enough that the military's spec ops units used them for decades.

 

[Jon406]

Trouble never makes an appointment, so carry or don't carry if you wish.... how I carry is up to me, as I stay well trained in case trouble decides to try and invade my life or that of my families.

 

[blume357]

the reality is we just can't be 'situational aware' 100% of the time. and I really doubt most of us are constantly scanning our surroundings on the off chance that a bad thing is fixing to occur.

 

[Moparfreak]

Oh, I don't think I'd be grabbing a firearm. I'd likely, working from the ground up, stomp his instep, knee his groin and/or head butt him in the face. Of course this would all be taking place as I repeatedly stabbed him with my knife, starting from the ground up, in the groin, belly, kidneys, etc. This ain't TV. I'm gonna keep hitting, kicking and sticking until he is down and not moving.

Or turning his twig and berries north, south, east and west all at the same time

 

[Enigma]

In Israel law enforcement and military by rule do not have a round chambered. I have watched a number of videos on YT of the way they are trained to charge the pistol fluidly when drawing. They do it with exceptional speed and in the process they go into a shooting stance. From my perspective I think they do it faster than I can with a chambered round. Of course, the are trained as to develop muscle memory. From what I have watched I don't think they are at a disadvantage, but I don't think their technique gives them ant advantage either. I always have a chamber round in my pistol. The only time I do not is when doing maintenance on the gun. I select my holsters carefully and have been doing this for decades so I feel comfortable and safe. My EDC is Security 9 Compact. I keep the safety disengaged. The safety is designed so that it will not accidentally engage. However, I have trained myself to use my thumb to release the safety on the draw so that if it were to accidentally engage I would flick it off. It is easy to disengage. So I am a happy camper with a chambered round.

My understanding is that the Israelis went to this policy because at that time, they had so many different types of handguns in service, with different manuals of arms. Some SA, some SA/DA, some striker fired, etc. If you train everyone to carry with an empty chamber and to charge the pistol as it's drawn, they reason that everyone is on a level playing field. While it may make it marginally simpler to change from one type to another, that is the only advantage that I can conceive of.

 

[Paul B]

I guess I've carried a gun most of my adult life, usually a 1911 carried condition one. Never had a problem whether in a holster or Mexican carry. Got my first 1911a1 in 1954. I was 16 years old, an old GI Ithaca.From 18 years old until I left San Francisco, I was never able to get a permit to carry. Not even when I was escorting my Grandmother who due to business concerns had to make he bank deposits at night at the day and night branch of B of A. That 1911 was at my waist, at the small of my back, shirt untucked as I walked with granny to the bank. Bad neighborhood in the middle of the tenderloin district and a two block walk to the bank. I carried all the time back then.Didn't ever have a legal CCW permit until about nine years ago give or take. These days it's a Colt Combat Commander .45 ACP as my main piece with an S&W M60 .38 Spl. as my back up pocket gun.

I don't know much about the current Taurus PT92 and PT99 but the one I have has the same type safety as a 1911. A 9MM with 15 round magazine and one up the spout, it's a lot heavier than any 1911 I've ever carried. Trigger pull in double and single action are very heavy. I like the capacity but the grip is very fat which makes it difficult to shoot well. Wear it on a belt and it'll pull your pants down. Not a comfortable gun to work with.
T he only time I really had to display my 1911 was when my then girl friend's ex-husband decided to cause trouble. He got the message. About three months late said girl friend became Mrs. Paul B. and we had 52 good years before she passed.
Paul B.

 

[buckaroo]

I guess I've carried a gun most of my adult life, usually a 1911 carried condition one. Wear it on a belt and it'll pull your pants down. Not a comfortable gun to work with.
T he only time I really had to display my 1911 was when my then girl friend's ex-husband decided to cause trouble. He got the message. About three months late said girl friend became Mrs. Paul B. and we had 52 good years before she passed.

Sorry to hear about the Mrs. Paul. There is a neat trick you can do to carry about any size handgun and weight you want but it requires changing your get-up as it were. I can't do a gun anywhere inside or outside I don't feel comfortable with it and it's not just the feel but the printing as well. I only do front pocket.

If you ever get knocked on your a** the odds are your inside or outside is getting taken, and you know the rest.
Forget about all the pro's on YouTube, we are merely average people just trying to make it through the grocery parking lot.
Were not commandos with 360 situational awareness. Not to mention a gun should be the very last thing we ever think about using, especially in today's climate where even a righteous shoot will most likely require a lawyer. And then after all that possibly getting sued.

Here's the get-up, the first pair was all elastic but it required me to constantly adjust the straps in public. The new pair is only elastic in the front, once you get the straps set you never have to worry about it after that.