GunnyGene
Hawkeye
But not for this shooter. 
Ruger 10mm - too much recoil for the FBI
- Thread starter GunnyGene
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I don't doubt this claim. Keep in mind that many LEO types aren't 'gun people' and ,may have no prior experience with firearms. Hooking them up to a 10mm handgun is going to create problems.
That little girl is absolutely adorable! I've followed her on YouTube for several years. She'll shoot literally anything, and shoot it well! I remember her cleaning a spinning tree in short order.
Her videos are under Autumn's Armory
I've followed her on YouTube for several years. She'll shoot literally anything, and shoot it well! I remember her cleaning a spinning tree in short order.Her videos are under Autumn's Armory
I used to let my 7yr old daughter mock people who thought the LCP was snappy.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
That little girl is absolutely adorable!
Her videos are under Autumn's Armory
Bet she goes pro in a few years.
Actnbill
Single-Sixer
The .40 Short & Weak was too much for them as well so they went back to 9mm..... maybe they should try a .25 cal.....
My basic firearms philosophy (courtesy of a gent known as KY Jim :^) is as follows:
1) Any gun is better than no gun.
2) A reliable gun is better than an unreliable one.
3) A hole where you want it is better than a hole someplace else.
4) A bigger hole is a better hole.
With that in mind, the .45 GAP is probably close to the ideal law enforcement cartridge. Of course, I'm not in law enforcement, so I don't own one.
1) Any gun is better than no gun.
2) A reliable gun is better than an unreliable one.
3) A hole where you want it is better than a hole someplace else.
4) A bigger hole is a better hole.
With that in mind, the .45 GAP is probably close to the ideal law enforcement cartridge. Of course, I'm not in law enforcement, so I don't own one.
XUSNORDIE
Single-Sixer
We all know there are commercial 10MM of today vs the loads the FBI, LE and military units were testing way back when right? They don't compare to the commercial loads sold today. And they were not plinking at a range at soda bottles. Just my 02 cents.
Bullthrower338
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2022
- Messages
- 360
I had aDelta Elite when they first came out and the 10mm am most the time turned it into a rattle trap. Still shot good but it was loose as a basic training issue weapon. I've got new10's that can take modern ammo all day. The Buffalo Bore reminds me of ammo of the 90's
RSIno1
Hunter
They were too macho to admit it was recoil. They went to the 40 with a smaller grip for the ladies. Yeah right.
Actnbill
Single-Sixer
I've seen some Leo training that was downright scary.....dropping their loaded pistol on the firing line, shooting into the range ceiling, hitting themselves in the face from recoil....There are some people that just shouldn't have a firearm...... Unfortunately, a lot of them are Govt employees....and changing to a smaller firearm will never fix that....
When LAPD first authorized semi autos the officer had to buy their own and qualify to carry them.
Back then the local police range was open to the public. I watched a female officer shooting her brand new 9mm.
She stepped up to the line and did a magazine dump. The only safe place was the target. Not one hit.
They allow police officers who are the most dangerous gun handlers in the world to walk around armed at all times. Yet try to disarm well qualified civilians.
Even with today's RDS and wimpy 9mm loads many officers barely (and it's a pretty easy) qualify.
Are there excellent shooters on police forces, yes. But they are far outnumbered y the poor ones.
LAPD used the NoHo shootout as an excuse to arm officers with M-16's. Yet, not one officer was capable of a single head shot from as close as 50' with their duty weapon. Like the FBI in Miami, it wasn't a weapons failure. It was a shooting ability and tactics failure.
You want to hear something really scary. Due to terrorist threats LAPD airport police are now carrying M16's of one stripe or another in one of the busiest airports in the world. If a shooting did occur more civilians would likely be hit by cops than bad guys.
Back then the local police range was open to the public. I watched a female officer shooting her brand new 9mm.
She stepped up to the line and did a magazine dump. The only safe place was the target. Not one hit.
They allow police officers who are the most dangerous gun handlers in the world to walk around armed at all times. Yet try to disarm well qualified civilians.
Even with today's RDS and wimpy 9mm loads many officers barely (and it's a pretty easy) qualify.
Are there excellent shooters on police forces, yes. But they are far outnumbered y the poor ones.
LAPD used the NoHo shootout as an excuse to arm officers with M-16's. Yet, not one officer was capable of a single head shot from as close as 50' with their duty weapon. Like the FBI in Miami, it wasn't a weapons failure. It was a shooting ability and tactics failure.
You want to hear something really scary. Due to terrorist threats LAPD airport police are now carrying M16's of one stripe or another in one of the busiest airports in the world. If a shooting did occur more civilians would likely be hit by cops than bad guys.
Jeepnik, you're spot on!!!
Let's put the 10mm in perspective. REAL 10mm 200 grainers exiting the muzzle at 1200+ fps may not be fun for the vast number of shooters. Just because it has a 10mm head stamp doesn't mean it's loaded to real original 10mm standards.
What it BECAME was the Fed lite 10mm (180 gr @ ~950) which led to the development of the 40 S&W in a pistol with nearly the same grip size that held 11 rounds and the feds STILL couldn't handle it STILL couldn't handle it? Sheesh! What's next? The .30 carry or .380's with 30+ rounds to accommodate Bambi secret agent and wimp men?
Anyway, the thing about the fed lite ammo in 10mm it passed every penetration and expansion test, and it as well as the .40 are potent enough pistol cartridges.
Anyone that thinks differently should see pepper poppers setup to not fall on a windy day laugh at multiple 9mm shots or dead wood bowling pins which go down handily with a .40 NOT short and weak.
Let's put the 10mm in perspective. REAL 10mm 200 grainers exiting the muzzle at 1200+ fps may not be fun for the vast number of shooters. Just because it has a 10mm head stamp doesn't mean it's loaded to real original 10mm standards.
What it BECAME was the Fed lite 10mm (180 gr @ ~950) which led to the development of the 40 S&W in a pistol with nearly the same grip size that held 11 rounds and the feds STILL couldn't handle it
STILL couldn't handle it? Sheesh! What's next? The .30 carry or .380's with 30+ rounds to accommodate Bambi secret agent and wimp men? Anyway, the thing about the fed lite ammo in 10mm it passed every penetration and expansion test, and it as well as the .40 are potent enough pistol cartridges.
Anyone that thinks differently should see pepper poppers setup to not fall on a windy day laugh at multiple 9mm shots or dead wood bowling pins which go down handily with a .40 NOT short and weak.
Attachments
I have a bunch of those Normas, good stuff.
Jeepnik is right about many LEOs ability. My friend was a sgt and range master of a large sheriff dept. If you had an "in" you could shoot there. The place was empty most of the time, except for a couple weeks before qualifications. Those were eye opening and scary weeks.
What I learned was there were two types of shooters among cops. Maybe 2-1/2. Competitors that shot a lot, and could, and those that had to cram to meet qualifications at the last minute. The "1/2" would be the few that didn't fit the other types, but did know their life depended on that skill and kept proficient.
Jeepnik is right about many LEOs ability. My friend was a sgt and range master of a large sheriff dept. If you had an "in" you could shoot there. The place was empty most of the time, except for a couple weeks before qualifications. Those were eye opening and scary weeks.
What I learned was there were two types of shooters among cops. Maybe 2-1/2. Competitors that shot a lot, and could, and those that had to cram to meet qualifications at the last minute. The "1/2" would be the few that didn't fit the other types, but did know their life depended on that skill and kept proficient.
Actnbill
Single-Sixer
Most Gov't Leo agencies that I know have switched from the H&K .40 to the Glock 19 9mm......
Now instead of the huge 40 recoil they will be shooting themselves in the leg more cuz they forgot there is no slide safety or decocker
Now instead of the huge 40 recoil they will be shooting themselves in the leg more cuz they forgot there is no slide safety or decocker
