Felt recoil in .357 vs. .45 colt?

fmcgraw · Mar 20, 2011

So I'm thinking of adding something a little different to my collection and want another revolver. I have a New Vaquero in .357 which I find manageable for recoil, but I end up shooting mostly .38 in it. My 3" SP101 is painful in .357. With that in mind, would I find .45 colt in a Blackhawk manageable in your opinion? The Blackhawk is 8oz heavier than the Vaquero which should reduce felt recoil, but the colt cartridge also has a little more muzzle energy than .357.

Thanks for your thoughts!

G2 · Mar 20, 2011

IMO ... Your will really like the 45 Colt.
One can shoot mild cowboy loads to real barn burners & everything between.
Cowboy loads will be similar to the .38 with less crack, All day long loads.
Barn Burners will move right out without the snap of the .357, It's a nice easy push.

You will need to handload to appreciate the range of the 45Colt, Factory ammo is out there but can be hard to get & real pricey.

BearBio · Mar 20, 2011

+1

The .45 will be a pleasure to shoot. I find most snubbies to be unpleasant after a while (exception is my Model 19) with .357s. Nothing to shoot 100 .45's at a spell. I shoot everything from cowboy loads to mini-454s that I load for bears. In fact, I prefer carrying my .45 over my .454.

5of7 · Mar 20, 2011

You don't mention barrel length....In a 4-5/8" blackhawk, when shooting +P loads in 45 LC, you may find the Blackhawk rolling up in your hand far enough to pinch the skin at the base of the thumb. A leather glove will mitigate this.

Going to a longer barrel will also help, with the 5-1/2" barrel being better, and the 7-1/2" barrel being quite comfortable to shoot.

You can shoot barn burner loads in any length barrel, it is just that the shorter barrels produce more pain than the longer barrels do.

Donaldjr1969 · Mar 20, 2011

While I do not own a 45 Colt BH myself, I have shot Iron Mike Golf's 5½" BH with everything from cowboy loads to 300g XTPs over 21 or 22 grains of H110. While the recoil of his 300g loads is stout, it is not uncontrollable at all. It is a fun caliber to shoot.

And add another person in favor of handloading the 45 Colt. With the dearth of good quality ammo above cowboy levels, that really is the only way to truly realize what it can do.

Bucks Owin · Mar 20, 2011

5of7 said:
You don't mention barrel length....In a 4-5/8" blackhawk, when shooting +P loads in 45 LC, you may find the Blackhawk rolling up in your hand far enough to pinch the skin at the base of the thumb. A leather glove will mitigate this.

So will hanging on with a firm grip! If you're letting your sixgun "roll up" until you get pinched you better not shoot any Linebaugh fodder... :shock: :wink:

But back to topic, a full tilt .357 has more noticeable recoil than a SAAMI loaded .45LC.....JMO

CraigC · Mar 20, 2011

Bucks Owin said:
So will hanging on with a firm grip! If you're letting your sixgun "roll up" until you get pinched you better not shoot any Linebaugh fodder...

Don't panic but once again, I agree. The grip shouldn't be sliding in your hand like a bar of soap. Nor should it take a death-grip to prevent it from doing so. The sixgun should "roll" with your hand, not in it.

I find just about anything to be more pleasurable to shoot than a .357 and own only one, which will someday become something more useful. Traded away my 50th .357 Blackhawk before Christmas. The big bores from the .38-40 to the .45Colt put a bigger, heavier bullet on target with less bark and less recoil than the .357, which is only "big" in bark.

One thing that I firmly agree with Gary Reeder about is barrel length and recoil. The idea is that longer barrels have more leverage against your wrist and thus, increase felt recoil. Shorter barrels have less leverage and shooting results in less wrenching against the wrist. That the "perception" of heavier recoil in shorter barrels is really just the increased muzzle blast. I have always found shorter barrels more pleasant to shoot. This has been proven to me in a pair of custom Ruger Bisleys, differing only in barrel length. One a 4 5/8", the other a 7½".

Glupy · Mar 20, 2011

Bucks Owin said:
But back to topic, a full tilt .357 has more noticeable recoil wise than a SAAMI loaded .45LC.....JMO

Agreed. I find most 45 Colts to be softer shooting in a Blackhawk than any 357 in an SP101. If you don't handload, then I suggest buying "cowboy" loads for the 45 Colt too. The 38s are a lot cheaper than the 45s if you don't handload.

And to the original post, most of us find a 357 pretty hot for the SP101 sized guns. I typically shoot hand-loaded 38s in it anyway.

One other compromise is to buy the Blackhawk in 357 instead of the 45 caliber. Then you can shoot your hotter ammo and not have that much recoil. Or shoot 38s with very little recoil.

Dave

bigboredad · Mar 20, 2011

On my opinion the .357 is a lot of unnecesarry noise and muzzle blast. I was shooting at some steel targets with a 158 grain .357 loaded to the max with h110 and also shooting a .45 colt with 250gr. bullets at about 850 fps the .45 would hammer the steel and the .357 could knock it down but was not very impressive. The .45 is a fun round no matter how you load it up and it also brings out that little cowboy in all of us

Bucks Owin · Mar 20, 2011

CraigC said:
Bucks Owin said:

So will hanging on with a firm grip! If you're letting your sixgun "roll up" until you get pinched you better not shoot any Linebaugh fodder...

Click to expand...

Don't panic but once again, I agree. The grip shouldn't be sliding in your hand like a bar of soap. Nor should it take a death-grip to prevent it from doing so. The sixgun should "roll" with your hand, not in it.

I find just about anything to be more pleasurable to shoot than a .357 and own only one, which will someday become something more useful. Traded away my 50th .357 Blackhawk before Christmas. The big bores from the .38-40 to the .45Colt put a bigger, heavier bullet on target with less bark and less recoil than the .357, which is only "big" in bark.

One thing that I firmly agree with Gary Reeder about is barrel length and recoil. The idea is that longer barrels have more leverage against your wrist and thus, increase felt recoil. Shorter barrels have less leverage and shooting results in less wrenching against the wrist. That the "perception" of heavier recoil in shorter barrels is really just the increased muzzle blast. I have always found shorter barrels more pleasant to shoot. This has been proven to me in a pair of custom Ruger Bisleys, differing only in barrel length. One a 4 5/8", the other a 7½".

Hey, all this agreeable stuff has got to stop! :x :wink:

I like my .357 158 gr loads to do about 1250 fps or so. Any higher and the muzzleblast and "snappy" recoil gets on my nerves...
I'd rather shoot a .45 250 @ 1150 fps than a .357 going full tilt....JMO

Barrel length? Could be, my 10" .44 would get your attention with max loads, but since I don't care much for shortish barrels, and don't own any, I have no hard kicker to compare with.. :?

Maybe the resident "doctor of amputation", tek4260 will chime in... :lol:

TiteGroups · Mar 20, 2011

Considering you shoot .38's in your .357, you may want to check ammo cost before jumping into 45c. That is if you don't reload. The 45c is a fun round, gotto love those big bores.

writwing · Mar 20, 2011

First let me say I do not like recoil at all.

My 4" BH 45C with Linbaugh loads is FUN FUN FUN to shoot. Huge boom and flame.

A SA will rotate in your hand, absorbing a lot of recoil.

YMMV

deac45 · Mar 20, 2011

I jumped OFF the 357 band wagon years ago and have never looked back.
I've had a Redhawk and GP100. Standard level loads...255gr @900fps+/-... in 45 Colt are much more pleasant to shoot especially in my 5 1/2" Bisley. Cowboy Action level loads are more fun than 38 Specials. Even in the 7 1/2"Redhawk, which is just massive for a 357, recoil was always rather snappy. The 45 not so snappy. The 45 feels like the recoil impulse is spread out over a longer time period. I know it's only micro seconds we're talking about, but it makes a difference. Muzzle blast/concussion isn't as bad to me either and I seem to be a little more sensitive to that than the actual felt recoil in my hand.

deac45

MMichaelAK · Mar 20, 2011

Recoil in the shorty (4 5/8ths) blued Blackhawk in .45 Colt is minimal with Cowboy loads. Im comparison to .357 Mag loads in the NV, its a wash. Its a slower recoil but its something you perceive rather than see or feel in a concrete fashion. Lower operating pressures mostly I figure.

Loading heavy BUT NOT Ruger Only level in the shorty blued Blackhawk is a bit more Boom. Recoil is more pronounced. It definitely rolls in your hand a little but nothing shocking. Its still not the blast og 158 grain .357 magnum loads in a 6 inch GP100 or 4 inch Security Six.

My 300 grain hardcast lead over 20 grains of H-110 load gives me 1040-1060 out of my shorty BH but here is where things get interesting. Because of the alloy grip frame and ejector rod housing, its lighter than stainless models and it gives me a bite on my middle finger knuckle and rolls with authority but hits where I want so Im good with it and its still not the muzzle blast of the .357 magnum.

But then, your perception will differ from mine.

Nowata · Mar 21, 2011

High-end .357 out of my 6.5in. BHSS really hurt my ears, despite earmuffs.

fmcgraw · Mar 29, 2011

Great discussion, thanks all. Checking prices I see 45 colt can be expensive and a little hard to find. I'm not ready to get into hand loading so I guess I'll be holding off for the moment, though I am interested. I got my Vaquero because I wanted a cowboy style revolver, I just wish I liked shooting it more.

Hugh · Mar 29, 2011

fmcgraw said:
So I'm thinking of adding something a little different to my collection and want another revolver. I have a New Vaquero in .357 which I find manageable for recoil, but I end up shooting mostly .38 in it. My 3" SP101 is painful in .357. With that in mind, would I find .45 colt in a Blackhawk manageable in your opinion? The Blackhawk is 8oz heavier than the Vaquero which should reduce felt recoil, but the colt cartridge also has a little more muzzle energy than .357.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I don't wish to give offense, but, my first revolver was a 4" Ruger Security Six .357 Magnum with the smaller factory grips, in 1973. I have shot thousands of .357 Magnum and .38 Spl ammunition through it. Have never found recoil with .357 overbearing. However, on one occasion I added aftermarket large checkered grips. Boy, did those cut my hand. Took them off and went to Ruger grips. Since then I have acquired a number of Sixes, including Service Sixes, and have added SP-101's to my small gathering. Using factory grips I have shot up to and including Buffalo Bore 180 grain ammunition. Never have shot a single action .357, although I do have one.

Yep, I have found the report to be very sharp, and under range conditions will always use ear protection.

Snake45 · Mar 29, 2011

deac45 said:
Muzzle blast/concussion isn't as bad to me either and I seem to be a little more sensitive to that than the actual felt recoil in my hand.

deac45

You beat me to making the point that until you point out the difference, many people perceive muzzle blast, especially BAD muzzle blast, as "recoil." Strange but true. :?

Rodfac · Mar 30, 2011

Hugh...good points...I have found that the felt recoil differs widely between a double action revolver, vs. a single action...Ruger, Smith, Colt; the doubles handle recoil better for me. It's a push to the rear with the hump at the back of the frame widening the contact area in the web of the thumb and first finger.

I'm a pinkie under, Single Action shooter with a very firm grip and the roll back of a single action in recoil gets me on the inside of the thumb, (next to the trigger finger) with the back left edge of the frame. The Rugers especially seem almost sharp on that edge. I've used thicker than factory issue stocks to reduce that problem, but it's still there, especially with the magnums. The gun rocks back in recoil, the muzzle pointed skyward, and that web of the thumb takes a lickin'. Oddly enough, my knuckle does not as a rule, take a rap from the trigger guard. While it may be a stocking issue, I've yet to find a pair of wood stocks that stop the affect...BTW, I'm not interested in the Pachmeyer rubber types for aesthetic reasons.

With my normal day to day loads, ( of approx. the old Skelton load of 7.5 gr of Unique behind a 240 gr SWC in .44 Special ~950 fps), it's manageable over a full box of ammunition. For the magnums, at full bore, I just suck it up and take the pain...in reality, I only shoot the heavy stuff in preparation for deer season or to work up a load.

Just some thoughts...Rodfac (Thank you for your service...son #1 served on the "Alaska" SSBN, 7 patrols....)

5of7 · Mar 30, 2011

Rodfac said:
Hugh...good points...I have found that the felt recoil differs widely between a double action revolver, vs. a single action...Ruger, Smith, Colt; the doubles handle recoil better for me. It's a push to the rear with the hump at the back of the frame widening the contact area in the web of the thumb and first finger.

I'm a pinkie under, Single Action shooter with a very firm grip and the roll back of a single action in recoil gets me on the inside of the thumb, (next to the trigger finger) with the back left edge of the frame. The Rugers especially seem almost sharp on that edge. I've used thicker than factory issue stocks to reduce that problem, but it's still there, especially with the magnums. The gun rocks back in recoil, the muzzle pointed skyward, and that web of the thumb takes a lickin'. Oddly enough, my knuckle does not as a rule, take a rap from the trigger guard. While it may be a stocking issue, I've yet to find a pair of wood stocks that stop the affect...BTW, I'm not interested in the Pachmeyer rubber types for aesthetic reasons.

With my normal day to day loads, ( of approx. the old Skelton load of 7.5 gr of Unique behind a 240 gr SWC in .44 Special ~950 fps), it's manageable over a full box of ammunition. For the magnums, at full bore, I just suck it up and take the pain...in reality, I only shoot the heavy stuff in preparation for deer season or to work up a load.

Just some thoughts...Rodfac (Thank you for your service...son #1 served on the "Alaska" SSBN, 7 patrols....)

I have pretty much the same experience with the single action revolvers. The roll up with the shorter barrels will get me on the web between the thumb and forefinger if I shoot anything more than 250 gr/850fps loads. This with the 4-5/8" barrel guns.

With the 7-1/2" barrel on an otherwise identical gun, roll up is much easier to handle because of the added weight on the end of the barrel, which dampens the roll up effect.

A good tight fitting leather glove takes all the bite out of the shorter gun for two reasons; one, the grip doesn't slide as easily and two, if there is contact in the trouble spot, the glove protects the hand.

I, like you, disdain the use of typical Hogue rubber grip on a single action gun.....it utterly destroys the ambiance of the occasion.

Felt recoil in .357 vs. .45 colt?

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