LCR Question/Issue

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WinstonVT

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
10
Hi everyone. I have a LCR Question/Issue. Let me explain.
Yesterday after a very successful afternoon at the range I was in my workshop cleaning my three LCR's. All three of them are your basic 38 + P's. I have the black one with a silver cylinder, a green on with a silver cylinder, and the navy/gray one also with the silver cylinder. All three have the black (not polished) barrel. All three seemed to be manufactured in 2010 or early 2011. Anyway, while I was cleaning them I noticed that with the green one and the navy/gray one with the cylinder open you could dry fire the revolver but with the black one if the cylinder was open you could not dry fire the revolver. It seemed to me that the black LCR has some kind of internal safety to prevent the gun from firing when the cylinder latch is pressed in and the cylinder swung open. But the OD Green and Navy one would dry fire just like normal with the cylinder latch pressed in and the cylinder open.
Has anyone else notice this? Why would some LCR's be manufactured so that they can be dry fired with the cylinder open and some be manufactured so that they cannot be dry fired with the cylinder open? Is one way better than the other? Are there any safety concerns?
Look forward to hearing from anyone with knowledge of revolvers especially Ruger LCR's.
 

schloss

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
360
Location
Soldotna AK
I'm definitely no expert, but I thought the trigger couldn't be pulled on a DA revolver unless it was fully locked up, that way there would be no chance of a person dropping the hammer on a chamber that wasn't properly aligned with the barrel.

I sure could be wrong on this. I'm sure somebody smarter than me will know the correct answer.
 

WinstonVT

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
10
schloss and doublebarrel,

Wow, since I found out about this issue with the LCR's folks have been coming out of the woodwork on this issue. It appears that back in 2011 this was a hot topic and lots of LCR's were found with this defect. Some posting tell that gun stores started checking and pulling these defected LCR's. Just do a simple search using "LCR Defect" Since I'm up here in Vermont and don't get on the internet too much I did not know of this issue. What surprises me is that I did send in all of the warrenty card information when I purchased the LCR's. Ruger had all of my contact information. They know that they had problems or defects with the LCR yet they never reached out to me. I'm just so lucky I discovered this defect and that started me researching the issue. I will contact Ruger this Monday and see what they say. I just can't beleave that Ruger left me hanging like that. Imagine the damage if a round went off and the cylinder was not properly lined up with the barrel.
 

Jayhawkhuntclub

Buckeye
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
1,229
Location
Kansas
I had the same issue with my LCR last year. I didn't see it as a big deal. Keep in mind a $2500 Python does this by design. I sent mine in to have it fixed, but only because I was looking for an excuse to adjust my POI. They fixed both and I had it back in 2 weeks.
 

rammerjammer

Blackhawk
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
734
My LCR did the same thing and it is a defect. I sent it in and Ruger fixed it for free. Now I know to check that on any new revolver purchase before I lay down the cash.

I also complained enough to get a free Mitch Rosen holster from Ruger for the defect.
 

WinstonVT

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
10
Jayhawkhuntclub and rammerjammer,

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I hope things go as well for me as with you with their Customer Service Department. I do truly hope I can report positive things from Ruger once this issue is over. Before this, I honestly felt that the LCR in 38 was as best as you could get in a light, easily concealable, simple, and reliable weapon. It fit all of my needs…actually surpassed my expatiation until finding out about this defect that was known to Ruger in late 2010. Maybe it's the part that I had to stumble into the issue instead of Ruger getting out in front of the issue by simply sending me an email or calling to check on my two LCR's that I purchased during the affected time period. God knows how much of my hard earned money I have given Ruger over the years.
I'm hoping for the best and I'm going to stay positive! But, I'm prepared for the hassle. I hope they don't make me dive someplace 100 miles away (remember I live in northern Vermont) and have to report between a specific time period just to ship back the two defective LCR's. And, then make the drive back or find some other place that they can ship them to where I will have to then pick them up. And, I'm prepared for them telling me that I'm responsible for the additional shipping cost. I'm sure shipping them via UPS, seeing how they are two hand guns, and special insurance and all will cost at least 50 dollars an LCR. We'll see and I'll report.
But seriously, thank you for the words of encouragement. If things go off like clockwork I'll sing their praises but for now I have a healthy dose of skepticism.
 

eveled

Hawkeye
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
5,606
They should send you a pre paid call tag, you should not have to pay for any shipping. Good luck
 

WinstonVT

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
10
eveled,

Prepaid call tag...well that's good to know. Thank you for the information.

But, where do I take the firerarm and prepaid tag....UPS? Can I simply give it to the same UPS driver that comes to the house during Christmas with all the packages or do I have to find some sort of "Center" for such things?
 

schloss

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
360
Location
Soldotna AK
So why do you have 3 that are all the same? I'm just curious. I mean, I've run into people that are into 3 screw Blackhawks, or 1911's or m1's or whatever, just not this. I'm not trying to be rude. Just want to know. Even if its just a good excuse to hand over to my wife (she can't understand why I need 2 357's, and I want to get another 1911, etc)
 

WinstonVT

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
10
schloss,

The reasons I have three is quite simple. Let me explain.

When I had my initial training in law enforcement I was trained on revolvers. As the early nineties gave way to the mid-nineties semi-autos especially the 9mms took over. Before I left law enforcement the 40's were all the rage. I never forgot and never fell out of love with the revolver. Probably a generational thing. I don't think anyone under forty would understand that part of the story. Back then I carried a 2 ½ inch barreled S&W model 686 (on duty) I had a, I think, a model 60 for off duty.
It's been a long time since then and for the past five years or so I've been searching for the perfect cc weapon. I have owned so many different "supposedly" perfect cc weapons only to find out first hand that they were not perfect. The worst experience I had was buying one of those two shot derringers. Now, the one I bought was top quality. Those boys in Texas do know how to make quality. But, the thing weighted 22 or 24 ounces. It shot the long 3 inch 410 00 buck shot and/or 45 colts. It was quality and it was pretty to look at BUT…it was thick and heavy and rattled your hand something awful when you shot it and was slow…extremely slow… to get into action (had to manually cocked back the hammer and then find and push the block safety "button" and as inaccurate to even describe with 3 inch 00 buck shot. At 10 feet it was common to have only one 36 caliber ball hit the paper plate. I guess if you were using birdshot and had to shoot a snake at three feet it would get the job done.
Anyway, so after I bought my first LCR I used it and carried it extensively and I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. It was small, light (13.5 ounces) lightning fast into action from concealment and relatively accurate. Oh, and simple to operate almost intuitive. I liked them so much and they fit my needs so well I collected the three different colors. The black the OD Green and the Navy one. I outfitted myself with all the holsters and such and I planned never have to worry about finding a cc weapon again. So, that's way I have three.

Wow, things can change on a dime.
 

eveled

Hawkeye
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
5,606
You should be able to call UPS, and have them pick it up when you are ready. Hence the name call tag. Good luck, Ed
 

WinstonVT

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
10
All,

This is just an update on my two special edition Ruger LCR's.

On Monday I was able to speak to a Customer Service Representative at Ruger.
I explained the issues and I was given two return material authorization numbers for them. It was explained to me that every firearm going back to the factory needed this (RMA) or it would not be accepted.

Second, Ruger paid for the UPS next day air costs.

The only hitch in the giddy-up was the fact that I had to find, drive to, and drop off my package containing the two LCR's at a UPS Customer Service Center. I think that there are only two in the whole State of Vermont. Only these centers will accept firearms for shipment. It's a pain in the *** but I can see the reasoning behind it.

Okay…now I simply wait. I ended my letter to Ruger that I put in the package as follows:

"Ruger Gunsmith, I am hopeful that you can fix my two special edition LCR's. I'm willing to wait a few weeks or even a few months if that's how long it takes to make them right and free from defects. If you cannot properly fix the firearms or if you cannot fix the firearms without marring or damaging the finishes please simply replace the two firearms."

"I hope you can make my experience with the Sturn Ruger & Co. Customer Service Department a positive one. I look forward to hearing back from you and seeing your work."

At this point I'm on an even keel with the whole situation. I've been around long enough to know things happen. If Ruger can fix my two LCR's (seamlessly-no marring them up in the process) or if they replace them with fully functioning replacements (one OD Green & one NAVY/Gray) and they do this within three to five months…I'll be okay with it. The worst possible outcome would be getting two LCR's back from Ruger that don't function flawlessly. That would point to major quality control issues at the company. Remember, a Ruger gunsmith will work on the firearms and a Ruger Supervisor must review the work before they are sent back to me.

I hope Ruger can make me a believer again in their firearms..I'm hopefully optimistic.
 

WinstonVT

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
10
Closing the loop with everyone.

Okay I'll try and keep this as short as possible…here goes.

I received the NAVY/Blue LCR back within two weeks. Ruger techs fix the problem with the gun being able to fire with the cylinder not properly latched closed. They wrote the following on their repair report back to me. "Returning Revolver Serial No. ***-*****. REPLACED CYL LATCH SPRING, PAWL AND TRANSFER BAR."

I received the OD Green LCR back in a month. Ruger techs fix the problem with the gun being able to fire with the cylinder not properly latched closed. They wrote the following on their repair report back to me.
"Returning Revolver Serial No. ***-*****. NEW PAWL, TRANSFER BAR."

At this point I don't even know if I should tell you all this but what the heck I will….

My third LCR the basic black one had to go back to Ruger also. Ruger could not fix this defective LCR and promptly destroyed it. Ruger then sent me a brand new LCR. They wrote the following on their shipping order of the new LCR to me
"SENDING REPLACEMENT FIREARM TO CUSTOMER TO REPLACE SERIAL NUMBER ***-*****."

Let me explain the whole thing with the black LCR and I'll try to be brief.

After realizing that two of my LCR's were defective and after sending them to Ruger to be fixed I was left with just the basic black one. The week after sending the two to the factory I went to my range and fired no more than 20 rounds. In total the Black LCR had been fired no more than 40 time. I have only shot factory Remington 38 +P 125 grain ammunition. It's your basic ammunition that can be bought anywhere. And, it's the only ammunition I have fired from the firearm since I bought it. After leaving the range I noticed that the Black LCR had server "flame cutting" or "gas cutting" of the top strap just above the barrel cone. This was not your ordinary type of striping or marking that normally occurs with revolvers. The back strap just above the cone had an irregular hole of divot. It appeared to me that the metal used to fabricate the firearm was bad and is melting or melts a little bit every time the firearm is fired.

When I first made contact with Ruger's Customer Service on this issue and started to explain I got the sense that they were aware of the issue. I got the sense that there was a batch of LCR made between 2010 and 2011 that were defective to "flame cutting" or melting above the firing cone.

Final thoughts.

I purchased three Ruger LCR's.
All of my Ruger LCR's were defective from the factory.
All of the defective firearms could have caused serious injury if not detected by me and sent back to the Ruger factory for repairs.
Two of the LCR's had the following defect; "when the cylinder release button is pressed and the cylinder is swung open (or anytime the cylinder is not securely locked within the frame) the firearm can still be fired. Because of this defect there is a possibility that a cartridge can be struck by the hammer when the cylinder is not properly aligned with the barrel.

One of the LCR's had the following defect; "flame cutting" or "gas cutting" of the top strap just above the firing cone. The guns frame was actually melting away.

Ruger did make all three LCR right as far as I can tell as I write this. They fixed two and sent me a brand new one for the third one that they could not fix.

Oh and they also gave me an upgrade to the new one they sent me free of charge. The defective one had the ordinary front blade sight but the new one had the white dot XS site. Interestingly though, the new one has a dark almost blued cylinder and a stainless steal barrel as opposed to the first editions ones with the flat black barrel and bright silver cylinder.

To be honest with everyone I don't know what I'm going to do with my Rugers. I'm a revolver guy but maybe I should start looking at pistols like the new Colt Agent or the new Spring Field Armory XD-S. If only one of the three LCR's was defective I would not think much about it but (it happens) but since all three of my Ruger LCR's were defective from the factory…I just don't know what to think.

Do you think I should stay a Ruger patron or dump the LCR's and never look back at Ruger firearms?
 

mike7mm08

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,709
Location
Milwaukee Wisconsin
All your LCRs were from the first run. Yes there was hiccups. But overall they are a great gun. Very few problems are encountered with the LCRs now, no more than any other gun that is being mass produced as fast as possible to keep up with demand.I look at it is this way. Any product can have problems. It is how the company takes care of those problems that matters. As you found out Ruger is topnotch at taking care of problems.

I would stick with the LCRs. They are a great gun. As for the other guns your thinking of I would suggest getting a Xds in addition to your LCRs. I recently bought one and it is a great gun. It is my main carry piece.
 

smorin2

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
100
Location
Maine
Interesting thread,i just checked my LCR( serial #341-63934) which according to Ruger's website was manufactured in 2012 and my LCR also fires with the cylinder open.I guess a call to Ruger on Monday is in order.Thanks for the information.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Messages
10,105
Location
Alaska, Idaho USA
I like revolvers as well, and I like the LCR. I have 5 of them. Even if I had to go through all that I'd still like them. I trust them. I don't sweat a lot of the small things. I've seen various manufacturers have a revolver that would do the same thing. I don't see that they would go off if they weren't lined up with the barrel because then they wouldn't be lined up with the firing pin. Either you like and trust a gun or you don't. Go out and shoot them then decide.
 

WinstonVT

Bearcat
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
10
Bear Paw Jack said:
I like revolvers as well, and I like the LCR. I have 5 of them. Even if I had to go through all that I'd still like them. I trust them. I don't sweat a lot of the small things. I've seen various manufacturers have a revolver that would do the same thing. I don't see that they would go off if they weren't lined up with the barrel because then they wouldn't be lined up with the firing pin. Either you like and trust a gun or you don't. Go out and shoot them then decide.


Mike7mm08 and Bear Paw Jack,

Thank you both for taking the time to read my post. Mike7mm08 I have a few questions if you don't mind answering. Do you have the 45 acp or the new 9mm in your XD-S? How heavy are they compared to the LCR…is the weight noticeable for all day carry and recreational activities? Mike7mm08 did you look at the new Colt Agent in 45 acp...if so why did you go with the Spring Field Armory XD-S?

Bear Paw Jack…I know that there is/was a very small chance that the defective LCR's could cause a catastrophic misfire/explosion but if you were in a hurry and thought the cylinder was fully closed but not and you pulled the trigger and things were close to being aligned but just off a hair it could happen. That's why revolver manufactures ensure that the trigger can not be pulled and the hammer will not fall and the cylinder will not cycle without the cylinder being securely locked-up. Yes, the probability would be slim but why take the chance.
 

mike7mm08

Buckeye
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,709
Location
Milwaukee Wisconsin
I have the 45 in the Xd. Fully loaded it feels nearly double the weight of LCR. I routinely carry a fullsize 1911 so for me the weight was not an issue. I pocket carry the Xd and after just a couple days I forgot it was even there.

I looked at the agent. Nice gun but I felt more comfortable with the XD for pocket carry. I am totally comfortable carrying a 1911 cocked and locked in a good holster but not in my pocket. Other negative for me was the lack of sights and sight options with the agent.Granted it is more of a point and shoot type of gun as is the XD. But the Xd I have more confidence in engaging further targets if need be. Also the XD has the option of upgrading to nightsights or even a laser if so desired. Final thing that was a strike against the colt is not specific. Have not heard of many issues with the agent but the 1911 design can get very finicky about the ammo it cycles when you you get into the subcompact size.

As for the Xd is it perfect no. But very close. Much safer than the 1911 design. Not that the 1911 is not safe. Just the Xd requires no thought other than keep your finger off the trigger. Also there is no thought when it comes to firing. Point and pull the trigger no worries about dropping the safety off. Trigger is not as nice but unlike a lot of striker fired pistols it is a rather short pull. The finish is tough as nails. I have a fullsize Xd 9 and I have been very hard on the gun. Still looks new. Takedown for cleaning is a 45 second job. Complete stripping of the pistol can be done in about five minutes. Accuracy is acceptable. I need more trigger time. Recoil is no more than my 1911 commander little more muzzle flip but no more felt recoil. One possible negative is the capacity is 5 plus 1. But a extended mag of 7 rounds is available and the grip is still a touch shorter than the agent. Only trouble is finding the extended mags at the moment.

Overall the XD has more of a utilitarian feel too it and features that matched. Seemed to check more boxes of what a carry piece should have features wise. Took me many years to even pick up a polymer pistol always was a 1911 guy. But the polymer pistols sure have their place. I also don't feel bad about beating them like a rented mule.
 
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