New K 77/357 - questions

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Jimbo357mag

Hawkeye
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The Speer 180gr 35 cal bullet has a crimp groove so I load to the crimp groove. I saw load data in some magazine that used the same charge of H-110 for the 35cal bullet as for the 180gr XTP bullet. That seemed a little light when crimped to the first groove (longer COL) so I went with a little more powder for both the 180gr XTP and the Speer 35 cal.

With Accurate #9 the max is 12.0gr for the 180gr XTP. So I add 1.0gr more powder and shoot 13.0 or 13.5gr when crimped to the first groove (longer COL) or with the 35cal bullet. Both seem to work well with the nod to the 13.5gr.

With H-110 the max for a 180gr XTP is 13.5gr. So for the first groove (longer COL) with the XTP or with the 35cal bullet I use 14.5gr or 15.0gr. I haven't shot this enough to give a good performance review.

When seating the XTP long or the 35cal bullet there is considerably more case volume. That is why the powder charge can be increased over Max book charge. Normally I would never suggest that but I have all indications that a 1.0gr increase is safe. 8) 8)

...Jimbo
 

Warthog

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
47
Jimbo357mag said:
The Speer 180gr 35 cal bullet has a crimp groove so I load to the crimp groove. I saw load data in some magazine that used the same charge of H-110 for the 35cal bullet as for the 180gr XTP bullet. That seemed a little light when crimped to the first groove (longer COL) so I went with a little more powder for both the 180gr XTP and the Speer 35 cal.

With Accurate #9 the max is 12.0gr for the 180gr XTP. So I add 1.0gr more powder and shoot 13.0 or 13.5gr when crimped to the first groove (longer COL) or with the 35cal bullet. Both seem to work well with the nod to the 13.5gr.

With H-110 the max for a 180gr XTP is 13.5gr. So for the first groove (longer COL) with the XTP or with the 35cal bullet I use 14.5gr or 15.0gr. I haven't shot this enough to give a good performance review.

When seating the XTP long or the 35cal bullet there is considerably more case volume. That is why the powder charge can be increased over Max book charge. Normally I would never suggest that but I have all indications that a 1.0gr increase is safe. 8) 8)

...Jimbo
I will have to try that, although looking at your signature "Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?" make me worry a little:)

Warthog
 

Jimbo357mag

Hawkeye
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
10,350
Location
So. Florida
It's just a pinch more powder in a case with a larger volume. If I had a chronograph I could tailor it a little better. BTW I shot some of those longer 180gr XTPs with 13.0 and 13.5gr of #9 today and I'm still here. 8) 8)

...Jimbo
 

Warthog

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
47
Jimbo357mag said:
It's just a pinch more powder in a case with a larger volume. If I had a chronograph I could tailor it a little better. BTW I shot some of those longer 180gr XTPs with 13.0 and 13.5gr of #9 today and I'm still here. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

Jimbo
I bought a cheap chronograph.....then I shot it. Then i bought another of the same model so I could use the old one for parts...then I shot it too...in the same place. It's the best shot group I ever made. Anyway, I bought another more expensive one which does not need the bullet passing so close to the sensor. After i get my rifle back I'll publish what i find out.

Warthog.
 

mnh2obuff

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
3
Shoprugernow has mag available for around $37 + sh.

I had a question concerning shooting .38 spls espcially since had a hjammed mag after accidentaly dropping a partially loaded mag. Here is their response:

"The 77/357 will usually function well when loaded with .38 Special. However, the left over space in the magazine allows .38 Special cartridges room to migrate, occasionally to where the rim of the top round gets caught behind the rim of the round below, causing a "rim lock" jam. The incidence rate of this malfunction is fairly low, and varies by ammunition type. The gun was designed to shoot, and will shoot best, with 357 Magnum ammunition.
We have no plans at this time to produce a .38 magazine"
 

Warthog

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
47
mnh2obuff said:
Shoprugernow has mag available for around $37 + sh.

I had a question concerning shooting .38 spls espcially since had a hjammed mag after accidentaly dropping a partially loaded mag. Here is their response:

"The 77/357 will usually function well when loaded with .38 Special. However, the left over space in the magazine allows .38 Special cartridges room to migrate, occasionally to where the rim of the top round gets caught behind the rim of the round below, causing a "rim lock" jam. The incidence rate of this malfunction is fairly low, and varies by ammunition type. The gun was designed to shoot, and will shoot best, with 357 Magnum ammunition.
We have no plans at this time to produce a .38 magazine"

mnh2obuff
Thank you for letting me know about the magazines. I just ordered a couple. I reload so I can down load .357 cases to 38 SPL levels if I want. I do that for my wife when she shoots her .357 revolver. That way we don't get that carbon ring in the chamber which makes it hard to eject .357 rounds after you shoot 38 SPL. Reloading .357 or 38SPL is easy, and the cases last a long time if you don't bell out the mouth much to get the bullet in. Also at 38 SPL levels I use plated bullets which are cheap. Also the .357 case reduces bullet jump which might help accuracy.

I looked at the scope rings for the 77/357 and found they don't have the 77/357 listed. The rings which came with the Ruger are the high, but I either need to raise my scope or cut a notch out of my bolt handle. When I work the bolt it hits the lever on the scope zoom, changing it from 12X to 10X. I could not tell for sure, but I think Ruger wants $40 + 40 + shipping. I think I will go after market.

I hope Ruger or someone starts making a larger capacity magazine. I sent my K77/357 in to fix the jamming problem. They said it might take a couple of weeks or more for them to get to it. I miss it already.



Warthog
 

Warthog

Bearcat
Joined
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Messages
47
Does anyone know how difficult it is to replace the bolt handle in a K77/357? I need to make some funny bends in it so it does not interfere with my scope.
 

RJ556

Buckeye
Joined
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Messages
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Focsani, Romania
Warthog, I tried the low rings with a Nikon 2x7 scope. The bolt would hit the zoom knob when the scope was set to 9x. Also the bolt handle would kiss the side of the ocular bell when the bolt was cycled. I tried medium Ruger rings and the bolt does not touch any part of the scope. It does not look too high and cheek weld is still good. So I am goung to go with them. If your scopes ocular bell is larger than a Nikon 2x7's, then the mediums may not work for you. For most of my shooting with my 77/357 and 77/44, I will be using XS ghost ring sights. I will share one scope set-up between the two and re-zero when I go from one rifle to the other, which will not be very often.
 

Warthog

Bearcat
Joined
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Messages
47
RJ556 said:
Warthog, I tried the low rings with a Nikon 2x7 scope. The bolt would hit the zoom knob when the scope was set to 9x. Also the bolt handle would kiss the side of the ocular bell when the bolt was cycled. I tried medium Ruger rings and the bolt does not touch any part of the scope. It does not look too high and cheek weld is still good. So I am goung to go with them. If your scopes ocular bell is larger than a Nikon 2x7's, then the mediums may not work for you. For most of my shooting with my 77/357 and 77/44, I will be using XS ghost ring sights. I will share one scope set-up between the two and re-zero when I go from one rifle to the other, which will not be very often.

RJ556
Ruger said the 77/357 shipped with medium rings. I might have to go with a high. Or maybe I should double check what ruger said. I have a Vortex Viper scope with a very large ocular (seems like a weird thing to say). When I get my scope back I will have to see if a little lift would work. I even thought about notching the bolt knob, but it would not help working the bolt.

Warthog
 

RJ556

Buckeye
Joined
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Messages
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I want to drag up the discussion about using 38 special ammunition in the 77/357. The explanation that mnh2obuff got from Ruger about the 77/357 magazine and "rim-lock", puts some questions in my mind. I may be totally wrong about this and at the present I am out of town with the job, and working from memory, I can under stand "Rim-lock" with a standard box type magazine. In a box mag, you have one cartridge sitting on top and contacting the one above and/or below it. In this situation, I can understand that if the round gets loaded with its rim behind the rim of the round below it, you can get a "rim-lock" jam. Now, with the rotary magazine of the 77/357, the rotating spool, somewhat, gives each round its own compartment, effectively, at least partially separating it from the round or rounds adjacent to it. How can you get "rim-lock" in this scenario? And if the rounds do cantact one another in the rotary magazine, I do not see how "rim-lock" would be any more likely to happen than with a box magazine. I did load up 5 rounds of 38 special ammo in my 77/357 and they cycled through the action without a hitch.
 

Warthog

Bearcat
Joined
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Messages
47
RJ556 said:
I want to drag up the discussion about using 38 special ammunition in the 77/357. The explanation that mnh2obuff got from Ruger about the 77/357 magazine and "rim-lock", puts some questions in my mind. I may be totally wrong about this and at the present I am out of town with the job, and working from memory, I can under stand "Rim-lock" with a standard box type magazine. In a box mag, you have one cartridge sitting on top and contacting the one above and/or below it. In this situation, I can understand that if the round gets loaded with its rim behind the rim of the round below it, you can get a "rim-lock" jam. Now, with the rotary magazine of the 77/357, the rotating spool, somewhat, gives each round its own compartment, effectively, at least partially separating it from the round or rounds adjacent to it. How can you get "rim-lock" in this scenario? And if the rounds do cantact one another in the rotary magazine, I do not see how "rim-lock" would be any more likely to happen than with a box magazine. I did load up 5 rounds of 38 special ammo in my 77/357 and they cycled through the action without a hitch.

RJ556
Although I do not have my K77/357 back from Ruger, I did receive the two magazines I order from Ruger. It is difficult to tell if the rounds are in in their own compartment, or if just the body is and the rims can overlap. The plastic core only holds the main part of the case, and the rim of the case hangs over the edge of the core. I can't tell if it is possible for the rims to overlap each other, but I don't think so. However as the rounds peal off the core and up into the head of the magazine, I was able to overlap the rims incorrectly between the top round and the next one feeding up behind it from the core with 38 SPL. I could not accomplish it with the .357 magnum.
What surprised me was that the jam was not caused by the overlap, but by the 38 SPL being able to slide far enough forward that the rim was no longer hanging off the end of the core, but riding up where the body of the case should be. This caused a jam between the core, rim and magazine case.
I doubt if it would happen often, but I suppose it could. I load my own and even my 38 SPL loads are in 357 cases, so there is no problem. Maybe someone will make a big banana magazine for .357 like they did for the 22LR.

Warthog
 

RJ556

Buckeye
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Warthog, thanks for that info. Maybe Ruger is correct even if it is not actually the rim of the case catching on the rim of another case in the mag, that causes the jamming. Interesting. :?
 

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