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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:11 pm 
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Blackhawk
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Location: Texas
The most accurate 357 rifle I've seen is the 18 3/4" TALO Handi Rifle. I put one together with a 2.5x Weaver and its a tack driver. More fun than a barrel of monkeys. I think the groups you are getting ain't too bad.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:38 pm 
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Bearcat

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Jimbo357mag wrote:
Warthog wrote:
mattsbox99 wrote:
H110 is about the perfect powder in the .357 Mag, I wouldn't even mess with AA9.


Mattsbox99
The Speer manual shows H110 being better than other powders with 180 gr bullets. Propellent Profiles book also said it was good, but dirty, and in some cases you shouldn't reduce the charge. Have you found it to be dirty?

Warthog

I have not noticed H-110 to be dirty at all and I have shot a lot of it in 44mag and 357mag. It does require a full to nearly full charge, a good crimp, and most times a mag primer. :shock: :shock:

...Jimbo



Jimbo
I will have to try H110. I remember someone was talking about a powder being dirty until he increased the charge a few grains, then it cleaned up. Bullet crimp and a full charge would help get the pressure up to a point where full combustion could take place.
I was using Unique, but there were pressure signs (flat primer) before I reached the max charge or velocity out of my revolver. The VihtaVuori N110 did not have that problem, and as it is a rifle powder, it gets top velocities in the speer book for the rifle rounds. It is more expensive than other powders.
Some powders require magnum powders, H110 is one. VihtaVuori recommends using small rifle primers on all 357 Magnum due to the long case (similar to a rifle). I wonder what the difference is between the magnum and rifle primers.
Warthog

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:34 pm 
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Blackhawk

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Location: Focsani, Romania
Warthog, I love that VihtaVuori N110. The problem is that here in Jacksonville FL, it is all but unobtainable. No stores here carry it. If I order it, other than costing $30 to $35 an bottle, I would have to pay a Hazmat fee of $25, resulting in a price of $55 to $60 for one bottle of powder. That stuff makes some very accurate loads and keeps the pressure down, I sure miss it. I now use 2400, which is not a bad propellent either.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:51 pm 
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Hawkeye
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Location: So. Florida
Warthog wrote:
VihtaVuori recommends using small rifle primers on all 357 Magnum due to the long case (similar to a rifle). I wonder what the difference is between the magnum and rifle primers.
Warthog

That is interesting. I know the rifle primers are much harder and able to withstand higher pressures without blowing out. I don't know how the spark intensity compares.

I found this:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm
quote> Rifle primers use tougher cups than pistol primers because the firing pin blow of rifles is usually harder than the firing pin blow of pistols. Rifle primers also contain more priming compound than pistol primers, since rifle cartridges typically contain more powder than pistol cartridges. < end quote

This discussion is very complete and says roughly that a small rifle primer is about as brilliant as a small magnum primer but with a harder cup:
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/34560-3 ... imers.html

...Jimbo

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:46 pm 
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Bearcat

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Jimbo357mag wrote:
Warthog wrote:
Jimbo357mag
I've read this in a couple of load books. One is the Speer Reloading Manual #14. Under 357 Magnum Rifle page it states "All level-action 357 Magnum rifles have bolts that lock to the rear. This allows the bolt to spring slightly during firing, stretching the case. Use only new or once-fired cases for maximum loads." I know many people who shoot lever and reload, but these were lower power loads.

Thanks for the explanation, you learn something everyday. I wonder how accurate you can get with that rifle as the 357mag cartridge is not known to be overly accurate. Since you mentioned it I have shot a few 35 caliber Speer 180gr flat point bullets from my Winchester and they did very well.

Image

...Jimbo



Jimbo
Thank you for the information on the primers. That was very interesting and answered many questions I had about them. Can you tell me what load you used for the 35 caliber bullet in the .357 case? How did you come up with the load? I want to try it in this rifle after Ruger returns it to me. I sent it in due to the jamming issues. I know I cannot put the .35 bullet in the magazine, but I could hand load it. How deep did you seat it?
Warthog

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:13 pm 
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Hawkeye
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Location: So. Florida
The Speer 180gr 35 cal bullet has a crimp groove so I load to the crimp groove. I saw load data in some magazine that used the same charge of H-110 for the 35cal bullet as for the 180gr XTP bullet. That seemed a little light when crimped to the first groove (longer COL) so I went with a little more powder for both the 180gr XTP and the Speer 35 cal.

With Accurate #9 the max is 12.0gr for the 180gr XTP. So I add 1.0gr more powder and shoot 13.0 or 13.5gr when crimped to the first groove (longer COL) or with the 35cal bullet. Both seem to work well with the nod to the 13.5gr.

With H-110 the max for a 180gr XTP is 13.5gr. So for the first groove (longer COL) with the XTP or with the 35cal bullet I use 14.5gr or 15.0gr. I haven't shot this enough to give a good performance review.

When seating the XTP long or the 35cal bullet there is considerably more case volume. That is why the powder charge can be increased over Max book charge. Normally I would never suggest that but I have all indications that a 1.0gr increase is safe. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:55 pm 
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Bearcat

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:53 pm
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Jimbo357mag wrote:
The Speer 180gr 35 cal bullet has a crimp groove so I load to the crimp groove. I saw load data in some magazine that used the same charge of H-110 for the 35cal bullet as for the 180gr XTP bullet. That seemed a little light when crimped to the first groove (longer COL) so I went with a little more powder for both the 180gr XTP and the Speer 35 cal.

With Accurate #9 the max is 12.0gr for the 180gr XTP. So I add 1.0gr more powder and shoot 13.0 or 13.5gr when crimped to the first groove (longer COL) or with the 35cal bullet. Both seem to work well with the nod to the 13.5gr.

With H-110 the max for a 180gr XTP is 13.5gr. So for the first groove (longer COL) with the XTP or with the 35cal bullet I use 14.5gr or 15.0gr. I haven't shot this enough to give a good performance review.

When seating the XTP long or the 35cal bullet there is considerably more case volume. That is why the powder charge can be increased over Max book charge. Normally I would never suggest that but I have all indications that a 1.0gr increase is safe. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

I will have to try that, although looking at your signature "Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?" make me worry a little:)

Warthog

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Hawkeye
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It's just a pinch more powder in a case with a larger volume. If I had a chronograph I could tailor it a little better. BTW I shot some of those longer 180gr XTPs with 13.0 and 13.5gr of #9 today and I'm still here. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:49 pm 
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Bearcat

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:53 pm
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Jimbo357mag wrote:
It's just a pinch more powder in a case with a larger volume. If I had a chronograph I could tailor it a little better. BTW I shot some of those longer 180gr XTPs with 13.0 and 13.5gr of #9 today and I'm still here. 8) 8)

...Jimbo


Jimbo
I bought a cheap chronograph.....then I shot it. Then i bought another of the same model so I could use the old one for parts...then I shot it too...in the same place. It's the best shot group I ever made. Anyway, I bought another more expensive one which does not need the bullet passing so close to the sensor. After i get my rifle back I'll publish what i find out.

Warthog.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:10 pm 
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Bearcat

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:47 am
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Shoprugernow has mag available for around $37 + sh.

I had a question concerning shooting .38 spls espcially since had a hjammed mag after accidentaly dropping a partially loaded mag. Here is their response:

"The 77/357 will usually function well when loaded with .38 Special. However, the left over space in the magazine allows .38 Special cartridges room to migrate, occasionally to where the rim of the top round gets caught behind the rim of the round below, causing a "rim lock" jam. The incidence rate of this malfunction is fairly low, and varies by ammunition type. The gun was designed to shoot, and will shoot best, with 357 Magnum ammunition.
We have no plans at this time to produce a .38 magazine"


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:47 pm 
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Bearcat

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:53 pm
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mnh2obuff wrote:
Shoprugernow has mag available for around $37 + sh.

I had a question concerning shooting .38 spls espcially since had a hjammed mag after accidentaly dropping a partially loaded mag. Here is their response:

"The 77/357 will usually function well when loaded with .38 Special. However, the left over space in the magazine allows .38 Special cartridges room to migrate, occasionally to where the rim of the top round gets caught behind the rim of the round below, causing a "rim lock" jam. The incidence rate of this malfunction is fairly low, and varies by ammunition type. The gun was designed to shoot, and will shoot best, with 357 Magnum ammunition.
We have no plans at this time to produce a .38 magazine"


mnh2obuff
Thank you for letting me know about the magazines. I just ordered a couple. I reload so I can down load .357 cases to 38 SPL levels if I want. I do that for my wife when she shoots her .357 revolver. That way we don't get that carbon ring in the chamber which makes it hard to eject .357 rounds after you shoot 38 SPL. Reloading .357 or 38SPL is easy, and the cases last a long time if you don't bell out the mouth much to get the bullet in. Also at 38 SPL levels I use plated bullets which are cheap. Also the .357 case reduces bullet jump which might help accuracy.

I looked at the scope rings for the 77/357 and found they don't have the 77/357 listed. The rings which came with the Ruger are the high, but I either need to raise my scope or cut a notch out of my bolt handle. When I work the bolt it hits the lever on the scope zoom, changing it from 12X to 10X. I could not tell for sure, but I think Ruger wants $40 + 40 + shipping. I think I will go after market.

I hope Ruger or someone starts making a larger capacity magazine. I sent my K77/357 in to fix the jamming problem. They said it might take a couple of weeks or more for them to get to it. I miss it already.



Warthog

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 Post subject: Bolt Handle Replacement
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:22 pm 
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Bearcat

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Does anyone know how difficult it is to replace the bolt handle in a K77/357? I need to make some funny bends in it so it does not interfere with my scope.

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 Post subject: 77/357
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:47 pm 
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Blackhawk

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:29 pm
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Location: Focsani, Romania
Warthog, I tried the low rings with a Nikon 2x7 scope. The bolt would hit the zoom knob when the scope was set to 9x. Also the bolt handle would kiss the side of the ocular bell when the bolt was cycled. I tried medium Ruger rings and the bolt does not touch any part of the scope. It does not look too high and cheek weld is still good. So I am goung to go with them. If your scopes ocular bell is larger than a Nikon 2x7's, then the mediums may not work for you. For most of my shooting with my 77/357 and 77/44, I will be using XS ghost ring sights. I will share one scope set-up between the two and re-zero when I go from one rifle to the other, which will not be very often.


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 Post subject: Re: 77/357
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Bearcat

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:53 pm
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RJ556 wrote:
Warthog, I tried the low rings with a Nikon 2x7 scope. The bolt would hit the zoom knob when the scope was set to 9x. Also the bolt handle would kiss the side of the ocular bell when the bolt was cycled. I tried medium Ruger rings and the bolt does not touch any part of the scope. It does not look too high and cheek weld is still good. So I am goung to go with them. If your scopes ocular bell is larger than a Nikon 2x7's, then the mediums may not work for you. For most of my shooting with my 77/357 and 77/44, I will be using XS ghost ring sights. I will share one scope set-up between the two and re-zero when I go from one rifle to the other, which will not be very often.


RJ556
Ruger said the 77/357 shipped with medium rings. I might have to go with a high. Or maybe I should double check what ruger said. I have a Vortex Viper scope with a very large ocular (seems like a weird thing to say). When I get my scope back I will have to see if a little lift would work. I even thought about notching the bolt knob, but it would not help working the bolt.

Warthog

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:41 pm 
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Blackhawk

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Location: Focsani, Romania
I want to drag up the discussion about using 38 special ammunition in the 77/357. The explanation that mnh2obuff got from Ruger about the 77/357 magazine and "rim-lock", puts some questions in my mind. I may be totally wrong about this and at the present I am out of town with the job, and working from memory, I can under stand "Rim-lock" with a standard box type magazine. In a box mag, you have one cartridge sitting on top and contacting the one above and/or below it. In this situation, I can understand that if the round gets loaded with its rim behind the rim of the round below it, you can get a "rim-lock" jam. Now, with the rotary magazine of the 77/357, the rotating spool, somewhat, gives each round its own compartment, effectively, at least partially separating it from the round or rounds adjacent to it. How can you get "rim-lock" in this scenario? And if the rounds do cantact one another in the rotary magazine, I do not see how "rim-lock" would be any more likely to happen than with a box magazine. I did load up 5 rounds of 38 special ammo in my 77/357 and they cycled through the action without a hitch.


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