RUGER VS FREEDOM ARMS

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sc1911cwp

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
202
Location
South Carolina
Is it better to just modify the Ruger or buy the FA which has ALL the attributes I want instead of the wait and added expense of modifying the Ruger? I will only shoot 45 Colt but will it harm the FA 83 at all? TNX
 

dougader

Hunter
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Jun 18, 2008
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OryGun
If you have a custom smith do the work you get a gun just the way you like it.

But if you like the FA gun, then its faster to order one, and they quite nice; like excellent. I hate the hammer. I mean, HATE it.

If you are only going to fire 45 Colt, then you might look at the smaller framed FA 1997 in 45 Colt...
 

scootergmc

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
13
Location
Sunny CA
I'd just keep my eyes peeled for a FA on the used market. Even with a few rounds through them, they're phenomenal guns. The quality is hard to surpass...
 

Lefty SRH

Blackhawk
Joined
May 12, 2011
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521
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Madison AL
I don't mean to change subject or hi-jack. The difference between the 83 and 97 is the frame size? The 83 being large frame?
 

sc1911cwp

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
202
Location
South Carolina
Yes, the 83 is larger than the 97. It can also handle the larger, stouter loads in 45 Colt than the 97 or larger OAL of cartridges from what I remember. TNX for the replies.
 

flatgate

Hawkeye
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Jun 18, 2001
Messages
6,784
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Star Valley, WY
sc1911cwp said:
Is it better to just modify the Ruger or buy the FA which has ALL the attributes I want instead of the wait and added expense of modifying the Ruger? I will only shoot 45 Colt but will it harm the FA 83 at all? TNX

If you shoot a lot of .45 Colt cartridges out of a .45 calibre Model 83 you'll eventually encounter "difficult chambering" due to a build up of "crud" in the '83's extended, .454 Casull calibre chambers.

Solution? Purchase a second cylinder chambered for .45 Colt.

I have a couple Model 83's and cherish them dearly.

flatgate
 

CraigC

Hawkeye
Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
5,197
Location
West Tennessee
Only you can answer this question. I fully appreciate FA's in all their glory but they leave me a little cold. More of a sterile precision instrument. A little too German and not enough Italian, if you know what I mean. If I'm spending that much, I want to get exactly what I want. Not just order out of a catalog. I've probably also done my last stainless custom so that kind of narrows it down.
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
1,443
Location
Pennsylvania
I'm pretty much with CraigC's observations if I was hankering to get another. I do own two FA revolvers (an 83 and a 97) and they are incredible, precise instruments and it's a pleasure every time I handle them. However, for me, I'll always prefer the look, handling feel, and care of blued steel and walnut in handguns (and long guns).
 
Joined
Apr 6, 2004
Messages
2,420
Location
Northern, Utah. USA
Being a Major Ruger Fan!
Along with being a single action purest!
Freedom Arms is a top quality gun that almost 2nd to none, they are very fine tuned before they ship checked & rechecked to shot very well. Ruger does not do that & can not do that for the price you pay. You can buy 3 to 4 Rugers to shot for 1 Freedom Arms. IMHO, comparing Ruger to Freedom Arms is like comparing Apples & Oranges.
That being said I wish to own one some day in a 454 with the Octogon Barrel!
 

dougader

Hunter
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OryGun
If FA had a Bisley style hammer, that would do it for me.... and maybe a top strap more like Bowen does with the old S&W M&P style. I'm talking about the front edge of the top strap, where the barrel meets up.

Cold and sterile is a good description. But they are precision instruments, to be sure.

One other thing that bugs me about FA, though, is that you have to pay extra for a nice trigger job? What's THAT all about?
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
25,142
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
I think SteveRuger & I are thinking alike. I have had the pleasure of touring the FA plant, and I can honestly say those folks have PRIDE in their work. It shows in the results. Yes, you pay more but it's as close to a custom firearm from a production facility as you can get.
The comments about cold & sterile were not felt by me. I'd love to own a FA, (And this is where Steve & I differ,) as mine wouldn't have an octogon bbl, but it would have the second cylinder Flatgate has mentioned.
Apples & Oranges my friends.
So, if the custom route is what you want, go for it. But, I think FA does it quite well.
 

guitarpicva

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Southern VA
Third option. Magnum Research BFR. I hear from a gunsmith friend that they are very good and are tuned pretty well right from the factory. Half the cost of the FA. Lots of folks swear by them. Might want to have a look.
 

guitarpicva

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Southern VA
Timber Wolf said:
What attributes do you want that a factory Ruger does not have? There is a whole lot of gun/fun wrapped up in a stock Blackhawk!

That's true. I think it depends on your intended use. If you want to plink and cowboy shoot, not much reason to buy anything more than the fine stock Ruger. If you are going to hunt at any significant ranges or if you want to compete, that's a different story. Triggers must be tuned, perhaps change springs. Cylinder throats investigated, particularly if you want to shoot cast bullets. Some calibers have better throats than others. I'm sure that's been covered here ad nauseum though. Just make a great gun even better. All that being said, you can still have one heck of a revolver and not spend anywhere near the BFR or FA pricing.
 

surveyor47

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Messages
312
Location
New Orleans, LA
Freedom Arms line bores their cylinders. i had this done to my 1858 Remington by gunsmith Rob Lewis and it is well worth the cost. He guarantees his guns to shoot under 1" at 50 yards, which is quite an accomplishment with black powder and round balls.

Rob has explained the process he uses:
He removes the barrel and installs a drilling jig and replaces the 44 caliber cylinder with a 36 caliber cylinder. He then cocks the gun and drills out the cylinder hole. When complete, all 6 chambers are perfectly aligned to the barrel.

As Rob has explained in detail, production manufacturers such as Ruger and Smith & Wesson do not use this process, but rather drill out cylinder holes on a production line basis. Just a litttle chatter in the drill bit can produce less than perfect alignment. Most production revolvers usually have 4 and sometimes 5 chambers in near perfect alignment. If you take an unloaded revolver, cock it and shine a bright light in the cylinder you can frequently see how well it is aligned to the barrel. Ever notice that the report from 1 chamber sounds different than the other chambers when fired? I would take that to be the chamber that is less well aligned than the others.

After seeing first hand how well a line bored gun can shoot, I would now consider purchasing one of Freedom Arms guns, which I previously ruled out due to cost.
 

JimMarch1

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
525
Location
Tucson, AZ, USA
The newer Ruger SAs (I'll lay out just which in a sec) have cylinders made with an improved process. It's not "line boring" but it's kinda "halfway there".

Ruger SA cylinders used to have all six chambers reamed at the same time, with six bit/reamer sets all going at once. This led to variances between chamber bores and throats.

The new process has each cylinder bore done one at a time with the same bit/reamer set. This is also why we're now seeing stuff other than sixguns, like the 8-shot 327 on the large frame, the new 10-shot Single Six, etc. We now at least have much better uniformity between chambers, and average accuracy has climbed past most of the Italian guns (at least on average) and isn't far at all from USFA's group sizes. They're not up to FA spec of course, but in my opinion these newer-cylinder Rugers are a better starting point for a custom than we've ever had available in years past.

The guns with the "new process":

* New Vaquero (ALL, 2004-forward).
* Ruger 50th Anniversary 357 Flattop Blackhawk (2005).
* Ruger 50th Anniversary 44 Flattop Blackhawk not marked "Super" (2006).
* Everything in 44Spl, without exception, fixed or adjustable.
* Montado.
* All large-frame SAs with the "Ruger's lawyer's warning label billboard" UNDER the barrel instead of on the side. Which means roughly 2007-forward. The 50th 44 mentioned above is the exception: it has the new cylinder on a side-warning barrel.

UNKNOWN: I don't know when any of the Single Sixes or DAs changed, or if they all did. The existence of the 7-shooter GP100 and 10-shot Single Six suggests that the new process has in fact migrated elsewhere. Reported quality control levels on both from "after the Great Obama Gun Rush" period (call it mid-2010 forward) appear to be pretty good, at least based on forum complaints or lack thereof :). Ruger QC appears to be back up from the 2007-2009ish dip.

I still consider the period 2004-2006 to be among the best Ruger "vintage years" ever, and if I was buying a NewVaq in blue I'd consider seeking out a fake-case version even though I hate the fake case colors - because that puts it in the peak QC control period prior to the crunchtime when everybody thought Obama was going to go on a rampage.

(Political side-note: at least where USSC appointments are concerned, he actually has, but none of "our five" have croaked yet...)
 

JimMarch1

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
525
Location
Tucson, AZ, USA
>>Even so, my 45 Colt Montado had to have the throats reamed. They were all too small.<<

Yup, still happens sometimes. BUT at least the dangthings were uniform :).

Seriously, that matters. For accuracy of course, but it also means you can use cheap reloading tools that don't do a full-length resize, like the old Lee Classic Loader or the Lyman 310.
 

surveyor47

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Messages
312
Location
New Orleans, LA
Very interesting. That explains a lot. Thanks!


JimMarch1 said:
The newer Ruger SAs (I'll lay out just which in a sec) have cylinders made with an improved process. It's not "line boring" but it's kinda "halfway there".

Ruger SA cylinders used to have all six chambers reamed at the same time, with six bit/reamer sets all going at once. This led to variances between chamber bores and throats.

The new process has each cylinder bore done one at a time with the same bit/reamer set. This is also why we're now seeing stuff other than sixguns, like the 8-shot 327 on the large frame, the new 10-shot Single Six, etc. We now at least have much better uniformity between chambers, and average accuracy has climbed past most of the Italian guns (at least on average) and isn't far at all from USFA's group sizes. They're not up to FA spec of course, but in my opinion these newer-cylinder Rugers are a better starting point for a custom than we've ever had available in years past.

The guns with the "new process":

* New Vaquero (ALL, 2004-forward).
* Ruger 50th Anniversary 357 Flattop Blackhawk (2005).
* Ruger 50th Anniversary 44 Flattop Blackhawk not marked "Super" (2006).
* Everything in 44Spl, without exception, fixed or adjustable.
* Montado.
* All large-frame SAs with the "Ruger's lawyer's warning label billboard" UNDER the barrel instead of on the side. Which means roughly 2007-forward. The 50th 44 mentioned above is the exception: it has the new cylinder on a side-warning barrel.

UNKNOWN: I don't know when any of the Single Sixes or DAs changed, or if they all did. The existence of the 7-shooter GP100 and 10-shot Single Six suggests that the new process has in fact migrated elsewhere. Reported quality control levels on both from "after the Great Obama Gun Rush" period (call it mid-2010 forward) appear to be pretty good, at least based on forum complaints or lack thereof :). Ruger QC appears to be back up from the 2007-2009ish dip.

I still consider the period 2004-2006 to be among the best Ruger "vintage years" ever, and if I was buying a NewVaq in blue I'd consider seeking out a fake-case version even though I hate the fake case colors - because that puts it in the peak QC control period prior to the crunchtime when everybody thought Obama was going to go on a rampage.

(Political side-note: at least where USSC appointments are concerned, he actually has, but none of "our five" have croaked yet...)
 

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