SR1911 locking up on the link

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HIP SHOT

Bearcat
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Gents,

I took my SR1911 apart after shooting a few hundred rounds and noticed that the gun is locking up on the link. I know that some gun companies do this to save time (less fitting) but I was hoping that Ruger wasn't going to do this short cut.

Has anyone else noticed this on their gun?

I guess its time to order another barrel and fit it correctly.

Hip Shot
 

Snake45

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Link-locking is quite common in 1911s, and it's not harmful unless the link is so long that it locks up under a lot of pressure, and then something can break or crack.

If it bothers you, you'll have to fit a new barrel, or perhaps have a gunsmith lay a little bead of weld on the lugs and then re-fit it yourself.

Frankly, if the gun is shooting okay, I wouldn't worry about it.
 

Ruger Packer

Buckeye
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Snake45 said:
Link-locking is quite common in 1911s, and it's not harmful unless the link is so long that it locks up under a lot of pressure, and then something can break or crack.

If it bothers you, you'll have to fit a new barrel, or perhaps have a gunsmith lay a little bead of weld on the lugs and then re-fit it yourself.

Frankly, if the gun is shooting okay, I wouldn't worry about it.

I agree with Snake.
 

HIP SHOT

Bearcat
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This might be contributing to some of the accuracy issues I am having with the gun.

I have welded up some barrels myself (I was a TIG welder in a former life) and refitted them. I always find myself fitting a new barrel down the road anyways.

I probably will just shoot it for a while and as funds allow, install a new barrel. What a shame.

Hip Shot
 

revhigh

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Won't Ruger fix an issue like this ?? :D

First I've heard of ANY issues with the SR1911.

REV
 

Snake45

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revhigh said:
Won't Ruger fix an issue like this ?? :D

REV
I really doubt it, if that's the way they're building all of them (and, as I said, it's not at all uncommon. In fact, it's probably the norm in off-the-shelf 1911s). It's not an "issue."

Lug-locking takes a lot of very careful hand fitting, and is usually only required if one is going for the absolute ultimate in accuracy, or if one just "simply must have the best." :wink:
 

The Wall

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You still have time to cancel your order Rev? I'm not even sure of what their talking about, but if RP & Snake say it's "NOT AN ISSUE", I'm not going to worry about it. Mine is very accurate at the distances I shoot or may need to shoot. Everyone has their way of doing things, and as long as their happy that's cool.
 

revhigh

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HIP SHOT said:
This might be contributing to some of the accuracy issues I am having with the gun.

What accuracy issues are you experiencing ?

REV
 

Pinecone

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Personally, I would get a set of variable length "links" and fit the right link to the pistol. A new barrel with the same link and there's a good chance your right back to square one! Being it's a new gun, I'd give Ruger a call and see what they have to say. Locking up on the link is "not" good for a .45 auto, contrary to what others may think. It "binds" the barrel which does not let it settle where it wants to and definitely leads to poor accuracy! It will eventually ruin the barrel and slide. To each his own........................Dick :wink:
 

Snake45

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Pinecone said:
Locking up on the link is "not" good for a .45 auto, contrary to what others may think. It "binds" the barrel which does not let it settle where it wants to and definitely leads to poor accuracy! It will eventually ruin the barrel and slide.
That's only true if it's locking up on the link very tight. If there's any play, there won't be any damage.

I'd wager that about 99% of WWII GI-grade 1911s locked "on the link," if rather casually. It didn't (doesn't) do anything for accuracy, but it didn't (doesn't) damage the barrel or slide.
 

The Wall

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I think I get it after looking at this website> http://www.m1911.org/locking.htm
What exactly do you mean locking up on the link? It's suppose to vertical lock the lugs from what I can see by its cam action and unlatch in the other direction. The term lock up to me means it won't move. How can you tell it's locking up as you call it? Wear marks? I need to learn something new everyday, so someone please teach me. :)
 

Pinecone

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Let's see if I can simplify this explanation. The barrel has basically four lock-up points. The upper lugs that lock into the lug slots in the slide, the lower barrel lugs that lock against the slide stop pin, the barrel hood that locks into the slide and the barrel bushing. If all are correctly fitted, then the barrel theoretically locks up the same, shot after shot with a predicted accuracy. The link is there to facilitate the barrel locking into battery and unlocking after cartridge discharge. With a too long barrel link, the link becomes a "locking point" rather than a "pivot point" originally designed by JMB! Too short a link does not allow for proper solid lock-up. To say that 99% of all G.I. .45's locked up on the link, is simply an uninformed, moronic statement! There would have been a lot more soldiers brought back in body bags and the ,45 auto would have went the way of the dinosaur if that were true. That simply put, has not been "my" findings in 45 years of working this pistol. C'mon Snake, you know better than that!..................Dick :wink:
 

mattsbox99

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Wall, you're on to it. As the firearm recoils the barrel moves back and down, unlocking from the slide. The link requires the barrel to go up a tiny distance before going down, in a very tight gun it will lock up. Mine did this a few times in the first ~200 rounds but hasn't barfed in a long time now.
 

The Wall

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Thanks Pincone. That was a really good explanation. My assumptions on how it operates were basically correct. I can see if the link was too long it could cause some major stress problems on frame, slide,link, and link pin/slide release.
 

Snake45

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Pinecone said:
Too short a link does not allow for proper solid lock-up. To say that 99% of all G.I. .45's locked up on the link, is simply an uninformed, moronic statement! There would have been a lot more soldiers brought back in body bags and the ,45 auto would have went the way of the dinosaur if that were true.
First off, you need to knock off the personal attacks if you don't want to get a reminder about your manners from the mods.

Your explanation of the workings, and the lockup, are correct (with one small exception--it isn't necessary for the barrel hood to "lock up" at the breech face and some gunsmiths actually relieve the barrel here to prevent any contact, which could become nonuniform). In a perfectly fitted, "zero tolerance" gun, it will all be working just as you said.

Such guns are rare, as they require careful hand-fitting, even in the modern CNC world. MOST 1911s, and virtually all rack-grade GI ones, have barrel lugs that are a bit "short," allowing a little play. You can instantly tell such a gun because when it's closed normally, you can push on the barrel hood and feel (or even hear) it go down a tiny little bit. This is because the barrel lugs are NOT contacting the slide stop pin on their underside. The back legs of the lugs, of course, contact the slide stop pin at the rear, stopping the forward movement of the top half, but the vertical positioning of the barrel is being accomplished by the link. Such a gun is said to be "link locking" and it's not a bad thing as long as the link is not too long.

If the link's too long, it can force the barrel too high and/or too soon, which can cause damage ranging from peening of the locking lugs on the barrel and/or slide, to wear or breakage of the slide stop, to breakage of the link, to (theoretically) cracking of the frame at the slide stop hole, depending on a number of factors.

There's a certain amount of tolerance or "play" built into the workings of all these parts, which leads to the gun's reliability. When you go for maximum accuracy, you seek to remove these tolerances and this play to minimums, and one of the things you do is carefully fit the lugs of THAT barrel/slide combination to that slide stop so that everything comes to rest exactly as it should--and solidly, as I've boldfaced in your quote above. That's the ideal, and I assure you that very, very few 1911s have that happening. If the locking lugs are resting on the slide stop in a typical, rack-grade 1911, it's only because of tolerances and gravity, not because it's been properly fitted up.

"Link locking" isn't a big deal unless the link is so long that parts become damaged.
 

Ruger Packer

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Pinecone said:
Let's see if I can simplify this explanation. The barrel has basically four lock-up points. The upper lugs that lock into the lug slots in the slide, the lower barrel lugs that lock against the slide stop pin, the barrel hood that locks into the slide and the barrel bushing. If all are correctly fitted, then the barrel theoretically locks up the same, shot after shot with a predicted accuracy. The link is there to facilitate the barrel locking into battery and unlocking after cartridge discharge. With a too long barrel link, the link becomes a "locking point" rather than a "pivot point" originally designed by JMB! Too short a link does not allow for proper solid lock-up. To say that 99% of all G.I. .45's locked up on the link, is simply an uninformed, moronic statement! There would have been a lot more soldiers brought back in body bags and the ,45 auto would have went the way of the dinosaur if that were true. That simply put, has not been "my" findings in 45 years of working this pistol. C'mon Snake, you know better than that!..................Dick :wink:

Ok, no need to start name calling here. Lets keep it civil. 8)
 

Pinecone

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Gentlemen, with all do respect I am no different then Mr. Snake is! Check some of his posts where he attacks me pretty severely from time to time, which has nothing to do with gunsmithing differences. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? I simply call them as I see them. just like most people on this forum. If I see a statement that I feel is simply eroneous, why shouldn't I comment on it? This is a "forum" and not the "military"! My purpose on this forum is to try to help people having problems with their firearms as far as my gunsmithing knowledge and experience allows. That's it in a nutshell! I don't see anywhere that I directly called Snake a moron! I said his "statement" was moronic. Seems like some english lessons are in order. I smell a "double standard" here for the anointed.....................Dick :wink:
 

Ruger Packer

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Pinecone said:
Gentlemen, with all do respect I am no different then Mr. Snake is! Check some of his posts where he attacks me pretty severely from time to time, which has nothing to do with gunsmithing differences. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? I simply call them as I see them. just like most people on this forum. If I see a statement that I feel is simply eroneous, why shouldn't I comment on it? This is a "forum" and not the "military"! My purpose on this forum is to try to help people having problems with their firearms as far as my gunsmithing knowledge and experience allows. That's it in a nutshell! I don't see anywhere that I directly called Snake a moron! I said his "statement" was moronic. Seems like some english lessons are in order. I smell a "double standard" here for the anointed.....................Dick :wink:

Your post and reference to a "moronic statement" was backhanded name calling. And, for the record I have had to reprimand Snake a time or two. So don't play that "double standard" bull crap on me. Your cooperation is appreciated and expected. 8)
 
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